2009 Ninja 250r starting problem (with videos)

[yanger]

Hi I’m new on the board and to motorcycles in general.
I brought 2009 ninja 250r about 1 month ago.
Everything worked great until one day I rode to work and when I got off work the bike wouldn’t start.
I hit the ignition button about 3 time and the battery died. No dash board lights would come on. The bike started with a jump from a car battery.
I replace the battery with a new one fully charged. But still the bike wouldn’t start.
I attached a video of how the bike sounds like when I try to start it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJNo...b7Qx0qrJImm4ow

Please any advice or test I can do that will narrow down what is wrong with the bike?

Thanks for all the help in advance.

Cheers
Andy

[jkv45]

Sounds like it's cranking ok to me - which means the battery seems fine.

Are you using the choke (enrichener)? How old is the gas?

If the tank has been low and the temps have been fluctuating you can have a fair amount of condensation in the gas.

You didn't really crank it for very long in the video.

[M42]

Check if you have fuel and if the petcock is set to on. That sounds exactly like mine when it's just not getting gas.

[yanger]

Have about 1/2 tank of gas
Gas was about 3 week old
I usually keep it in doors so should not have big temp changes.
Choke is fully on.
Bike starts if do a push start.
If that makes any difference.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by yanger

Have about 1/2 tank of gas
Gas was about 3 week old
I usually keep it in doors so should not have big temp changes.
Choke is fully on.
Bike starts if do a push start.
If that makes any difference.

Are you cranking in neutral with the clutch pulled in and the side stand up? Not sure if all of that is required on yours or not, but it would cover all the bases.

I'd try backing the choke off some.

[M42]

What happens if you crank it with the throttle open?

[yanger]

I tried with clutch pulled, neutral and kick stand up
Also with wide open throttle both yield same results.
could there be under lining electrical issue?

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by yanger

I tried with clutch pulled, neutral and kick stand up
Also with wide open throttle both yield same results.
could there be under lining electrical issue?

How about varying the choke amount? Try 3/4 choke with the throttle closed, then open the throttle 1/16th then 1/8th to see if that makes a difference. Have you looked at the air filter and intake snorkel to make sure everything is good?

Have you done anything with the carbs?

I might bump start it just to get it running, then warm it up and make sure the idle speed is set at 1300 hot. If you have the caps off of the idle mixture screws you could check their setting. 2 1/2 turns out is a good start.

I'd probably drain the gas and refill with fresh 87 (without ethanol if possible), just to be sure that's not a factor. Gas with ethanol goes bad much faster than gas without. Run the lowest grade (octane) you can get without ethanol. If you have summer-blend fuel, and the temps have dropped, you will have difficulty starting.

I wouldn't expect an electrical issue if it starts with a bump.

[yanger]

I'll try and drain the tank and put in some new gas this weekend.
And report back.
I'm a complete noob.
How do I check the air filter and intake snorkel to make sure everything is good?
I have not done anything with the carb either.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by yanger

I'll try and drain the tank and put in some new gas this weekend.
And report back.
I'm a complete noob.
How do I check the air filter and intake snorkel to make sure everything is good?
I have not done anything with the carb either.

This is the info for the earlier model, but it tells about proper cleaning of the filter.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...r_filter(s)%3F

Check the owner's manual for specific info for yours, or there may be a thread here somewhere that will walk you through it.

[yanger]

Hello,
I drained the gas and added some fresh gas into the bike.
Check the snorkel and air box.
everyone thing looks good.
Still can't start. I was able to push start the bike again.
Here is a video of the bike running after a push start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgsD_BR9T6k


Is there anything that wouldn't keep the bike from starting with the ignition system.
but allow the bike to start on a push?

Thanks
Andy

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by yanger

Hello,
I drained the gas and added some fresh gas into the bike.
Check the snorkel and air box.
everyone thing looks good.
Still can't start. I was able to push start the bike again.
Here is a video of the bike running after a push start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgsD_BR9T6k


Is there anything that wouldn't keep the bike from starting with the ignition system.
but allow the bike to start on a push?


Thanks
Andy

well, I just watched your videos...and I believe it is an electrical problem... at first it looks as if it is fuel delivery problem but the fact that it idles so smoothly, eliminates that scenario...
so I have a couple of questions for you to start with...
after you push start the bike and you take it for a ride, have you revved the engine in the top range going uphills and it still works fine ? no stalling at -say- 3rd gear at 13k ? if that is the case, then it is definetely NOT an air/fuel delivery issue(maybe some cleaning the carbs would help anyhow but carburators are my weak point since I work with FI systems over here)...
if you haven't tried that yet, then once you get a chance you must run that test so that we know where to start from...

assuming you have done that already and that even if your carbs need some cleaning for optimum performance but not being the reason for not letting the bike start, I would reccomend checking on your CDI circuit... I can recall that the carb version has been charged with having faulty or rather "fragile" CDI and people have reported that some times...

something that is rather unsual but have seen happening is the case where after some valve checking, one of the two sealing caps that go on top of plugholes, under the top cover has been misplaced, misaligned or bent somehow, leaving a small amount of oil and/or moisture to go in the plughole, enough to let the spark plug do its job when it has revved but not enough to let it give spark when cranking on the starter...
but let's take a step at the time, I believe it is sth simple and minor that is somehow escaping our attention at the moment... by the way, those videos are a great way to help our "telediagnosis"...

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by yanger

Hello,
I drained the gas and added some fresh gas into the bike.
Check the snorkel and air box.
everyone thing looks good.
Still can't start. I was able to push start the bike again.
Here is a video of the bike running after a push start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgsD_BR9T6k


Is there anything that wouldn't keep the bike from starting with the ignition system.
but allow the bike to start on a push?

Thanks
Andy

If you shut if off after running for a while will it start up with the starter?

How about the aftermarket clutch lever - could there be an issue with the switch?

[yanger]

Thanks all the replies.
@micoulisninja:
The bike rides fine after it starts. I rode on for 40mins never stalled or felt lost of power or anything.

@jkv45
No the bike wouldn't start again after I turn it off.
I usually pull in the clutch when I start.
what switch is for the clutch?

I started pull out the fuses all but IG fuses, the bike seems to start 50% of the time. I'll do some more testing and report back.

Cheers

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by yanger

Thanks all the replies.
@micoulisninja:
The bike rides fine after it starts. I rode on for 40mins never stalled or felt lost of power or anything.

@jkv45
No the bike wouldn't start again after I turn it off.
I usually pull in the clutch when I start.
what switch is for the clutch?

I started pull out the fuses all but IG fuses, the bike seems to start 50% of the time. I'll do some more testing and report back.

Cheers

by the way, check on that one... your case seems similar... might help you out...
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196981

[jkv45]

Try to figure out what is different when you bump start vs starting using the starter. Once it's warmed up it should restart immediately without any choke or throttle.

I would bump start it and warm it up, turn it of, then try restarting with the starter - in gear with the clutch in and the sidestand up - duplicating the configuration when you bump start it. Try some other variations to isolate what could be causing the problem.

I'm not sure of the specifics with the Ninja, but with one of my cycles will start in gear with the clutch pulled in AND the side stand up if all the components are working. If the stand is down in gear with the clutch pulled in, the engine will crank but not fire up. The stand relay switch will cut power to the coils in that configuration. If the neutral lamp is lit, the stand relay switch is bypassed and doesn't affect starting. Only the clutch switch will interrupt power to the starter motor or of course the kill switch.

Any of that apply to the Ninja?

[yanger]

Hi All,
So with all the fuse pulled expect the IG fuse.
The bike will start 80% of the time.
However when I put back any other fuse ( IG fuse + anyone other 1 fuse) the bike will not start again.
So I'm guessing there is something wrong with my ignition circuit.
Any testing I can do to find out which part to replace??

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by yanger

Hi All,
So with all the fuse pulled expect the IG fuse.
The bike will start 80% of the time.
However when I put back any other fuse ( IG fuse + anyone other 1 fuse) the bike will not start again.
So I'm guessing there is something wrong with my ignition circuit.
Any testing I can do to find out which part to replace??

That's some odd electrical stuff there...

Have you looked at the connector under the tank? I would use a test light to see if you have power to the coils with just the Ignition fuse in place (sounds like you do). Then add another fuse and check again.

There may be a loose/broken wire or connector, or maybe a bad ground. You will need a test light and an Ohm meter to start eliminating possible causes.

Check that your battery voltage is 12.7V first.

[cuong-nutz]

I'd check to make sure that you have good secure connection for your ground and power wire from battery to frame and battery to starter relay and starter.

[yanger]

Hi Everyone,

Reporting back I been testing last weekend.
I measure the voltage cross the battery while the bike was running and reving the engine.
There was not a huge increase in the voltage while I was reving. According to a few youtube videos I should see a jump in voltage
Then I tested the rectifier by measuing the ohms on leads. The reading was not as per the service manuel.
Would a faulty rectifier be causing my bike to not start?
Is there anyother way to make sure the rectifier is broked before I run out and spend money on a new one??

Any input would be great.

Thanks
Andy

[jkv45]

What is the battery voltage not running and cranking?

If you are getting 12.7V sitting and over 11V cranking I would think it could be more related to the alternator than the rectifier. As I understand it, the rectifier controls and limits the output so it doesn't just keep increasing with RPM after a set point.

Check around for an exact spec, but I think you should see around 13V at idle and close to 14V at 4000 RPMs.