Wire integrated tail light such that the brake light stays off while signal flashes?

CZroe · March 2nd, 2012, 02:29 PM

I am color-blind. I've heard that as many as one in ten males has the same type of color blindness. Neither I nor my brother can clearly tell which direction is being indicated from a normal driving distance on my bike because the amber lights are too similar to the red lights that are thoroughly mixed. I have redundant turn signals in my undertail, but they are mostly hidden by my license plate if viewed from directly behind (I intend to relocate it). It scares me that so many other drivers out there likely can't tell which way I am indicating.

Activating the turn signal on the Fire Dragon Brothers integrated tail light causes amber LEDs on one side to flash right next to red LEDs used as dim running lighting and bright brake lighting. Because you usually slow when you turn or signal when stopped, the brighter brake lighting is usually active when signalling, further obscuring the indicator. It also doesn't help that the additional power drain causes the other side to dim in sync with the flashing indicator, so it's harder for someone who is color blind to use the "what is changing" technique that our brains are wired to use instead (Info-Second: statistically, we use pattern recognition and such more readily, are less distracted by camouflage, and make better than average snipers according to military studies).

It occurred to me that having an alternate brake light, perhaps mounted under the tag bracket, and disabling the integrated brake light, would accomplish this.

I suck with creating schematics, but I'm pretty sure I could follow one if someone knew how to tap into the power source before the flasher relay and used another relay to kill the brake light any time the flasher were active. Is this possible with cheap components? Would I be better off just extracting the brake light pin to leave the running light on and connect the brake light wire to a secondary unit?

If that statistic about 1 in 10 males is true, anyone else with this tail light should consider redundant signals and brake lights. It doesn't matter if you can see it if you are dead after someone else couldn't. Technically, having turn signals so close to each other is illegal anyway. Even if I found a way to reconnect stock signals to my custom tag mount, they'd be too close to be legal and I'd have THREE sets of signals that are too close to be legal!

FrugalNinja250 · March 2nd, 2012, 04:43 PM

Don't have an answer to your particular wiring question, but there's a reason why the FMVSS have a minimum distance between the turn bulbs and brake bulbs. All the integrated setups I've seen on the street are completely undecipherable when viewed from distances greater than a couple of yards, and I can't help but wonder why riders would want to confuse drivers behind them with that.

CZroe · March 3rd, 2012, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Don't have an answer to your particular wiring question, but there's a reason why the FMVSS have a minimum distance between the turn bulbs and brake bulbs. All the integrated setups I've seen on the street are completely undecipherable when viewed from distances greater than a couple of yards, and I can't help but wonder why riders would want to confuse drivers behind them with that.

Probably because stalks are ugly. :P Yes, I know safety should trump style, but I got a hugger and an undertail to compliment it which, like it or not, requires me to ditch the fender. I got the integrated tail light "just in case" and I'm glad I did because the plate completely blocks the undertail signals and I don't have what I need to relocate it (was also living in a state where vertical swingarm mounting was illegal and actively ticketed).

The undertail blinkers would probably be fine as long as there is nothing obstructing them. I know that in the dark you would not be able to tell if they are to the left or the right of center, but that should be easy to rectify with a brake light that goes between them and arrow-shaped signals on either side.

Now, even the Fed standards have allowances. Red is OK down to a minimum distance and amber is OK down to a much lower minimum (to differentiate from the red brake). By considering the reasoning, I think it can be made relatively safe even below the official minimum distance with enough redundancy and design considerations.

warlord · March 3rd, 2012, 10:58 AM

OK, I just watched a video of the integrated tail lights you're talking about and they're terrible. I'm not colorblind but even I have difficulty telling what way they're indicating due to the ridiculous overall flashing effect they have.

I would suggest getting a different integrated tail light altogether, such as the bikemonkey or the similar DMP ones. Not as clear as having separate stalks but much better than what I just finished watching...

CZroe · March 3rd, 2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warlord

OK, I just watched a video of the integrated tail lights you're talking about and they're terrible. I'm not colorblind but even I have difficulty telling what way they're indicating due to the ridiculous overall flashing effect they have.

I would suggest getting a different integrated tail light altogether, such as the bikemonkey or the similar DMP ones. Not as clear as having separate stalks but much better than what I just finished watching...

Were you watching my video?

Link to original page on YouTube.

The only reason it's as discernable as it is is because I wasn't holding the brake.

Bike Monkey and others are kinda expensive and still in very close proximity so I'd rather just fix this one with a secondary brake light. I just want it to remain active when my signals are off, if possible, so that I dont rely on only the secondary brake light.

leed · March 3rd, 2012, 09:08 PM

I kept my stalked lights along with the CustomLED integrated tail light. I liked the tail light because of it's brightness for braking (I've had a few incidents where people behind me don't realize I've hit the brakes), but I don't think the look of the stalks hinder the flow of the bike that much. The more lights, the better.

You may consider adding some amber LED Bars on the side of your license plate to take place of your turn signals from the rear light.

choneofakind · March 4th, 2012, 06:36 PM

@CZroe the new version of the integrated taillight from CustomLED is different than the one you have. When the turn signal is activated, the red LED's on that side turn completely off and the amber ones flash. This makes sure that there is more definition between right and left. It also has insanely bright LED's for braking. Combine that with your auxiliary turn signals, and you should be fine with visibility.

Good comparison for brightness in daylight.

Link to original page on YouTube.

March 2nd, 2012, 02:29 PM	#1
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	Wire integrated tail light such that the brake light stays off while signal flashes? I am color-blind. I've heard that as many as one in ten males has the same type of color blindness. Neither I nor my brother can clearly tell which direction is being indicated from a normal driving distance on my bike because the amber lights are too similar to the red lights that are thoroughly mixed. I have redundant turn signals in my undertail, but they are mostly hidden by my license plate if viewed from directly behind (I intend to relocate it). It scares me that so many other drivers out there likely can't tell which way I am indicating. Activating the turn signal on the Fire Dragon Brothers integrated tail light causes amber LEDs on one side to flash right next to red LEDs used as dim running lighting and bright brake lighting. Because you usually slow when you turn or signal when stopped, the brighter brake lighting is usually active when signalling, further obscuring the indicator. It also doesn't help that the additional power drain causes the other side to dim in sync with the flashing indicator, so it's harder for someone who is color blind to use the "what is changing" technique that our brains are wired to use instead (Info-Second: statistically, we use pattern recognition and such more readily, are less distracted by camouflage, and make better than average snipers according to military studies). It occurred to me that having an alternate brake light, perhaps mounted under the tag bracket, and disabling the integrated brake light, would accomplish this. I suck with creating schematics, but I'm pretty sure I could follow one if someone knew how to tap into the power source before the flasher relay and used another relay to kill the brake light any time the flasher were active. Is this possible with cheap components? Would I be better off just extracting the brake light pin to leave the running light on and connect the brake light wire to a secondary unit? If that statistic about 1 in 10 males is true, anyone else with this tail light should consider redundant signals and brake lights. It doesn't matter if you can see it if you are dead after someone else couldn't. Technically, having turn signals so close to each other is illegal anyway. Even if I found a way to reconnect stock signals to my custom tag mount, they'd be too close to be legal and I'd have THREE sets of signals that are too close to be legal!

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March 2nd, 2012, 04:43 PM	#2
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	Don't have an answer to your particular wiring question, but there's a reason why the FMVSS have a minimum distance between the turn bulbs and brake bulbs. All the integrated setups I've seen on the street are completely undecipherable when viewed from distances greater than a couple of yards, and I can't help but wonder why riders would want to confuse drivers behind them with that.

March 3rd, 2012, 10:58 AM	#4
warlord ninjette.org guru Name: war Location: north chicago burbs Join Date: Jan 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Ducati Panigale 899 Posts: 325	OK, I just watched a video of the integrated tail lights you're talking about and they're terrible. I'm not colorblind but even I have difficulty telling what way they're indicating due to the ridiculous overall flashing effect they have. I would suggest getting a different integrated tail light altogether, such as the bikemonkey or the similar DMP ones. Not as clear as having separate stalks but much better than what I just finished watching...

March 3rd, 2012, 09:08 PM	#6
leed ninjette.org sage Name: David Location: Loves Park, IL Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): Time will tell Posts: 969	I kept my stalked lights along with the CustomLED integrated tail light. I liked the tail light because of it's brightness for braking (I've had a few incidents where people behind me don't realize I've hit the brakes), but I don't think the look of the stalks hinder the flow of the bike that much. The more lights, the better. You may consider adding some amber LED Bars on the side of your license plate to take place of your turn signals from the rear light.

March 4th, 2012, 06:36 PM	#7
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	@CZroe the new version of the integrated taillight from CustomLED is different than the one you have. When the turn signal is activated, the red LED's on that side turn completely off and the amber ones flash. This makes sure that there is more definition between right and left. It also has insanely bright LED's for braking. Combine that with your auxiliary turn signals, and you should be fine with visibility. Good comparison for brightness in daylight. Link to original page on YouTube.