June 2nd, 2022, 01:29 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
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Wobble after new tire?
I have an odd issue. Well maybe it isn’t so odd as I’m pretty sure I know tye cause but the strange thing is that I’ve had a slightly warped rotor for a while but my front end didn’t start wobbling until I just mounted new tires. I noticed when I did my fork springs when I mounted the front wheel back on the bike and spun it it would slow down slightly when a certain part pf the rotor passed through the brake pads. It wasn’t a problem though and the front end never shaked until today. I had new tires put on and balanced by a friend that has a shop with a tire machine.
My first thought is that he didn’t balance them correctly so I removed the wheel and put it in my balancing stand but it is balanced perfectly. So I taped a zip tie to my stand and confirmed my rotor is slightly warped. I think the answer is yes but will a warped rotor make the front wobble? If I am gripping the bars with both hands it will stop the wobble but if I remove one hand or both then it starts to wobble. It is just strange that it didn’t wobble before the new tire but I confirmed the bead is seated perfectly all the way around both sides and it is balanced. Also what is strange to me, the shaking stops under front braking and there is no pulsing or any odd feel in the brake lever? If it was the rotor, wouldn’t the problem be worse under braking? Also it was bent before so it should have always wobbled? As far as I can tell, my steering stem bearings are good but with the bile on the front triple tree stand it makes it hard to check for smooth movement. Any ideas? I am stumped… |
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June 2nd, 2022, 01:38 PM | #2 |
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I would hate to buy a new rotor and pads (not cheap as you guys know) only to find out that it still wobbles but I can’t see what else it could be.
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June 2nd, 2022, 02:15 PM | #3 |
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If I hold the front brake and try to roll the bike forward (not compress the forks) there is a slight “clunking” coming from the front end. Might this be bad steering stem bearings?
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June 2nd, 2022, 03:32 PM | #4 |
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Yeah loose steering-head bearing. I prefer to use tapered roller-bearings on bottom and ball-bearings on top. Slightly less drag than both roller bearings. Could also be wheel-bearings.
To isolate warped rotors, remove both of them and just use rear-brake on test ride. Is shaking still there? |
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June 2nd, 2022, 03:48 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
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Thanks Danny! I have been searching and have seen lots of people having issues with their steering stem bearings. I ordered a cheap c-spanner tool from Amazon so I can try to tighten the nut and see of it helps if not I may switch to tapered roller bearings.
How would I support the front of my bike to take the front end off? |
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June 2nd, 2022, 04:26 PM | #6 |
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Some people jack up under engine, I'm always worried about knocking it over that way. And you can't yank on it very hard to undo big bolt.
I prefer to hang it from garage rafters! You can use can use breaker-bar with handle-extension pipe to loosen big bolt. |
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June 2nd, 2022, 05:12 PM | #7 |
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Great idea thanks I may do that! Is it hard to tap the old races out and the new ones in? That is about the only thing I have never done when it comes to general maintenance, steering stem bearings and races. I know there are special bearing race drivers but I have a plethora of large sockets so one should fit the race OD.
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June 3rd, 2022, 10:37 PM | #8 |
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I use same technique as on my BMX bikes when I was a kid. Big long screwdriver and hammer to remove cups from head-tube. And blocks of 2x4 to pound new ones in!
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June 4th, 2022, 06:38 AM | #9 |
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I have ordered the tapered bearing kit and am now debating on even going through the trouble of trying to adjust the steering stem nut or just wait until the bearings arrive and be done with it. For the 300, what is the method for safely jacking up the front? Should I use my rear stand, remove the lower fairings and put the jack under the headers as far forward as possible? Or leave the bike on the kickstand and put the jack under the engine near the oil drain bolt? I’m not sure my rafters are sturdy enough to use ratchet straps but I may add one for insurance lol
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June 4th, 2022, 08:24 AM | #10 |
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The taper bearings will definitely make the bike feel better, or at lest it did for me. Just feels more solid. Do the “string thing” to make sure both wheels are aligned to each other, I had a hands off wobble at around 80kph that went away after I checked and adjusted the rear wheel alignment using the string method.
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June 4th, 2022, 10:06 AM | #11 |
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I will check that for sure, thanks. I do know that my steering bearings need messing with as well but the alignment would explain why it all of a sudden got worse after I put new tires on. I set my rear wheel like I always do though, with the MP chain alignment tool and by measuring how far the adjusting studs stick out of the back of the swingarm to make sure they match.
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June 4th, 2022, 04:51 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
When rear-wheel is not aligned parallel with front, this causes bike to "crab" when going down road, with rear wheel rling off to one side, not perfectly behind front. This parts a lateral force on front tyre and can cause shaking. String-test is good way to test for front/rear alignment. Even eaisr are laser tools. |
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June 6th, 2022, 07:30 AM | #13 |
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I checked with the string method and my alignment is good. Bearings will be here today so I may install them tomorrow or this week sometime. Any tips for install would be greatly appreciated. I have read everything I can on the subject and it seems pretty straight forward.
I notice that some don’t use the dust seals, some only use one and some use both? What works the best, do they both fit on there fine? I don’t want to put the bottom one on if it won’t work only to have to destroy the bearing to remove the dust seal. |
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June 6th, 2022, 10:21 AM | #14 |
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Not sure if this applies to conventional forks but with upside down forks there is a specific axle tightening process including pressing down on the forks to seat everything. Could that be an issue here?
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June 6th, 2022, 10:42 AM | #15 |
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Only tips I have on the bearings is to tap out slowly working "round the clock" as it were. Don't take too big of a bite, sort of like spooning a tire on. Save the old bearing once you tap them out, you can use them to protect the new ones when you tap them in. I've frozen the new bearings to allow them to fit into the race on the wheel a little easier too.
Definitely look into the tightening procedure back in the saddle mentions. It's less complicated on conventional forks, but tighten the big bolts first, bounce the front to center everything, and move on down to the small bolts that require less torque. Dave Moss does a nerdy video on it - kinda helpful if you struggle with the core concept.
__________________________________________________
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June 6th, 2022, 11:48 AM | #16 |
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You can also use long bolt and washers to press cups in. 1/2" diameter and long enough length 3" longer than head-tube should work. Do one cup at a time.
Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; June 6th, 2022 at 05:02 PM. |
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June 6th, 2022, 12:07 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org member
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Thanks guys! I love watching Dave Moss videos on how to set up your bike properly. He is a wizard, how he knows how to fix your suspension by looking at your rear tire lol
I am doing some prep work here and discovered a good way to lift the front (or keep it lifted). I just put on my front stand stacked up some leftover pine boards under the front of the header and then take my front stand out. It seems very sturdy. I rented a tool from Autozone to drive the races in but none of them fit lol. I guess I’ll flip the tool over and use the flat back side to drive the race in until they are flush with the stem. Then I’ll use the old races to send them the rest of the way. Yes, getting the right tension is my only real concern and where I have read that most guys struggle with. |
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June 6th, 2022, 12:09 PM | #18 |
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June 6th, 2022, 12:22 PM | #19 |
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Did you guys use both of the all balls seals?
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June 6th, 2022, 01:28 PM | #20 |
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Well after taking the front stand out and checking for play in the steering I cant feel any. Could the steering head bearings still be my issue wven though I cant feel any play and side to side movement is smooth?
Since I’ve gone this far would it make sense to change them now anyway? I’m thinking that even if they aren’t the issue then they probably will go soon in the future. The buke has 7500ish miles on it. I noticed the front wheel bearings are slightly crunchy feeling when turning them with my finger. I could have sworn I checked them before I put the wheel back on. Either I didn’t check or I did and refused to believe that they need replacing lol. Might as well wallop a set of those in as well. Can’t believe those didn’t last more than 7500 miles though…. |
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June 6th, 2022, 03:00 PM | #21 |
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Might as well do steering bearings. At least just bottom that takes most load. Both top & bottom might make steering little too heavy and vague. I prefer just bottom and keep balls on top. Or you can return and just clean & regrease what's in there now. Saves having to pound out old and in new bearing races/cups.
Front wheel bearings take more load than anything else. They don't have suspension to cushion bumps like steering bearings do. Also grease quality makes HUGE difference. I prefer to carefully pry off seal, wash out original little amount of grease and pack it full of Mobil-1 full-synthetic grease (pink-stuff). Then clean and repack grease every other chain+sprocket swap. Original front-wheel bearings are still going strong on my VFR-750 which is at 96k-miles now! In contrast, original bearings on those vRossi wheels someone imported couple years ago only lasted couple hundred miles! I got a set for super good price because of that. Luckily bearings hadn't disintegrated yet, just completely dry! Packed it full of M1 grease and they've been fine past 5-yrs on track. About 50k-miles now. BTW - make sure inner spacer between bearings have tight fit so bearings don't face too much lateral load. |
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June 6th, 2022, 03:27 PM | #22 |
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Yes I think you are right, the bearings weren't the problem. Most likely they weren't greased well from new and nobody ever takes the time for this kind of maintenance lol. This happens to me every time I buy a used bike. Yet when I sell a bike, the new owner gets lucky I guess because maintenance is up to date and the bike comes with a service manual!
I think I will do the bearings, at this point I've got everything off the bike except the forks and triples. At least take a look in there and re-grease. Even though I can't feel any slop by pulling on the fork bottoms, there is a slight clunking happening when I hold the front brake and rock the bike forward and back. Thats another thing that I noticed! The wheel spacer isn't tight in between the bearings. When I stuck my finger in there to turn the bearings I could hear and feel it clanking around. That may be why they failed quickly as well since there is space for the inner races to get mushed sideways when I tighten the axle down. I'll figure out the steering bearings in the morning and then run to the local bearing shop for a couple of new, quality 6202 bearings. Did you use the bottom dust seal when you swapped the bottom bearing? What is the procedure for tightening the lock nut with tapered bearings, is it the same as in the manual or a different process? Thanks again! |
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June 7th, 2022, 11:00 AM | #23 |
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I stand corrected on the maintenance. My steering bearings were lathered in what looked like fresh Bel-ray grease and were in perfect condition. The races had the faintest hint of a mark where the balls were pushing on them but def. still good IMO. I was actually going to just clean and re-grease until I counted only 28 balls lol. I figured just do the swap now and then I know they are good and should last a long time.
On cue, I found the last ball bearing when I was taking my bike off the stands haha. I have no idea if I got the tension even close to correct but I'll ride it later and see how it feels and keep a close eye on it for the next few hundred miles. |
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June 7th, 2022, 02:57 PM | #24 |
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It did cure my wobbling but I notice there is a fine line when setting the tension between too tight (the bike swaying at slow speed and steering on it's own) and too loose (wobbling). Is this just how it goes when setting the tension on the steering stem nut or am I missing something?
It seems that I have less than an 1/8 of a turn to play with in either direction. Are these tapered bearings expected to last the life of the bike? I saw someone somewhere say that. I hope so because good luck getting them races out now with no lip to get a tool on lol. I'll be cleaning and re-greasing at least once a year. |
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June 7th, 2022, 04:52 PM | #25 |
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Yeah, the roller bearings will last forever.
Bearing-preload is adjusted by the ring/collars, not the big nut on top. Yes, should be not too tight and not too loose. When you lock rings, adjustment is set and locked. Adding top triple-T and bolt shouldn't affect adjustment. Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; June 8th, 2022 at 06:41 AM. |
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June 8th, 2022, 05:06 AM | #26 |
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Not too loose and not too tight, got it I know how to make adjustments my problem seems to be I can adjust it to take away the wobble but then the bike feels like is wallowing around when riding in a straight line. Or I can loosen the nut off an 1/8 turn and it stops the bike from steering on its own but has the tiniest hint of a wobble now and again.
I guess maybe it is just finicky and will take some adjusting but from everything I have watched and read, they all say just adjust it until the bars move freely side to side and no play when pulling on the forks and it's good (which would indicate that there is room for error and it doesn't need some precise adjustment). For what it is worth, mine is just barely tighter than finger tight does that sound like it is in the ballpark? |
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June 8th, 2022, 06:39 AM | #27 |
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yeah wallowing is too tight. 1/8th turn is too coarse adjustment. Loosen 1mm at a time until it stops.
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June 8th, 2022, 08:06 AM | #28 |
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Nice thanks! I did loosen about a 1/16 of a turn and tested and no more wallowing but slight wobble when decel from 50+mph. No slow speed wobble though. I’ll tighten back up a hair at a time until I find the sweet spot.
I just had no idea the adjustment was so particular. |
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June 12th, 2022, 10:37 AM | #29 |
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I got it adjusted correctly so no more weaving and wobble. In my travels though I have noticed another issue! The clunking I was first hearing and feeling is still present. I noticed that with the bike sitting on tue forks in its normal position and I rock the bike I get the clunk. But if I pull up on the bars while holding the brake and rock the bike, it doesn’t clunk. I guess either the fork stanchions or bushings are wearing?
I know the thread is all over the place but how can a bike have so many problems with so few miles? The wobbling does appear to have been the steering bearings because it doesn’t wobble anymore but I do feel a bit of instability in the front end when braking hard. I think this may be either my warped rotor or the fork clunking lol. |
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June 12th, 2022, 11:06 PM | #30 |
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Oh no!!! One thing after another!!!
Well, I guess you can check out forks when you've got wheel off to replace bearings. |
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June 13th, 2022, 05:53 AM | #31 |
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I've already replaced the wheel bearings. Also there's nothing to really check out short of disassembling the forks because when I had them out to put new springs and oil in the looked and felt fine. I read that some play is normal but the strange thing is my forks have no play at all when fully extended. The clunk only happens when the bike is sitting on the ground with the forks compressed. I don't think it is a major problem but didn't know if you guys had seen it before. I'm not taking the forks apart until they need new seals lol
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June 13th, 2022, 12:18 PM | #32 |
ninjette.org member
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Also, I think since I have changed parts maybe I am a little hyper-aware with what the front end feels like so I notice every tiny thing. I’ve done new fork springs, oil, wheel bearings and steering stem bearings so no wonder it feels different than it used to.
Like when you do a valve adjustment and you start hearing engine noises that you swear weren’t there before (even though they have always been there). |
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June 14th, 2022, 06:31 AM | #33 |
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Check the calliper, I had a clunk in the front and that’s where I found it
Last futzed with by Jaymod; June 14th, 2022 at 06:32 AM. Reason: Spelling |
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June 17th, 2022, 02:09 PM | #34 |
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I think maybe it is the caliper. You mean when you hold the brake on and roll the tire the brake pads click against the caliper? Not sure but that may be what is doing it. Not too big a deal I guess…
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June 18th, 2022, 07:37 PM | #35 |
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hmmm.... shoudn't be doing that...
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June 19th, 2022, 04:17 AM | #36 |
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For me, it was the “pins” that the calliper sits on from the mount. I replaced the rubber boots and all seems well now
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June 19th, 2022, 04:43 AM | #37 |
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Oh okay I'll check that out thanks.
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