Engine Break-In, Pros and Cons

[g21-30]

So, how are you breaking in your engine? Are you using the factory recommendation? Why or why not?

Here are additional techniques that I have found:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/NewBike.html

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[kkim]

I used a modified motoman method which ended up being much like the first link's method.

My biggies were...

-change oil/filter often... i did it at 50, 100, 300, 600, 1000 all with conventional 10-40 except the last which was a full synthetic.

-vary the rpms and don't stay at the same rpms for long periods of time. (freeway riding)

-don't lug the engine (low rpm in a high gear)

-stay away from redline for the first few hundred miles.

-heat cycle the engine. do your break in with many short rides letting it fully warm up and cool down between rides) instead of one long one.

to me, there are many shortcomings of the factory method. the biggest being that operating the bike under their method makes you dangerous on the road. Just ride the bike as you need to as to not be a hazard to navigation. zing it up to 10k with no worries... that's where the bike likes to be run... in the 7-10k range anyway.

how many miles on your bike?

[g21-30]

Originally Posted by kkim

I used a modified motoman method which ended up being much like the first link's method.
how many miles on your bike?

I have 30 miles so far and against all my previous training, I WAS using the factory recommendations. When I get home later today, I'm changing tactics to something in between the two methods mentioned. Point being vary the rpms in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th between 4k-10k and do lots of WOT and engine braking, cool down, and do it all again.

I'm having problems locating oil filters locally. Any suggestions?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by g21-30

I have 30 miles so far and against all my previous training, I WAS using the factory recommendations. When I get home later today, I'm changing tactics to something in between the two methods mentioned. Point being vary the rpms in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th between 4k-10k and do lots of WOT and engine braking, cool down, and do it all again.

I'm having problems locating oil filters locally. Any suggestions?

any of these will work... I'd recommend staying away from Fram. I use Wix filters ordered from the local auto parts store. Most filters will come with replacement O rings, some do not. Check to see they are in the box.


Amsoil: SMF 101 (No longer available. Replaced by WIX 24941.)
CarQuest: CFI-89941
Emgo: 10-37500 (includes O-rings) 10-20300 (doesn't have O-rings)
Fram: CH6012
Hastings: LF571
Honda: 15410-426-010 or 15410-300-024
Kawasaki: 16099-003
K&N: KN-401
NAPA: PS4941 (formerly 4941)
Perf-Form: OF-0047 (formerly J-501)
Purolator: ML16812
STP: SMO-12 (Once readily available, now appears to have been discontinued.)
Triumph: 1210031
Vesrah: SF-4004
WIX: 24941
Yamaha: 36Y-13441-00

and just in case you've never changed the oil in your bike before... http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Oil_Change_Photographs

[FlamingYellowInsanity]

I break in my engines along the lines of what kkim mentioned.

-Vary the RPMs
-LOTS of engine breaking
-Frequent oil changes
-almost totally ignore factory recomendations

Travis

[kkim]

Originally Posted by FlamingYellowInsanity

-almost totally ignore factory recomendations

Travis

lol... in fact, it almost works out to be to do the exact opposite of what they recommend.

[tweakmon]

Ride the crap outta it varying the RPM's from idle up to redline never holding one RPM for too long.

Lots of engine breaking to help wash the crap out of the cylinders as the rings seat.

Change the oil at 60 then again at 300 miles. After that every 3000. Exactly 2 quarts with a new filter. Switch to syn at about 1500 or so if you like.

Inspect and change the spark plugs at about 2000 miles.

I use K&N filters and Repsol 10w-40

[miks]

With many people saying "never holding one RPM for too long", I'm wondering how long is too long?

[BlueTyke]

Why... couldn't you've posted this two weeks ago! Hah! It's alright though! I may have passed the 20 mile marker but that was with varying speeds and a little (about 4 miles) of freeway... So that should have sealed that ring the second link was talking about right?

One thing about motorcycle riding I don't like... break ins... I am scared I will not do it right and break Tyke all over again!

[Alex]

Sunny, don't stress. Engine break-in on a modern bike is one of those things that everybody is convinced they've done the absolutely correct way:

"7 16.23 mile loops while varying speeds from 22 to 46 mph at 38 second intervals, with 18 minute cool-down periods in between"

"1 37 minute ride every other day over a space of 3 weeks, with an oil change on each off day"

"1 200 mile ride at 90 mph, 20 minute rest, then a 400 mile ride at 84 mph"

You ever notice how you've never read a single post online about someone who believes they've hurt their bike by not breaking it in correctly? That's because that someone doesn't exist. There isn't a wrong way to do it. The Motoman guy isn't accepted as someone who knows what he's talking about by anybody who actually knows what they're talking about. He's become famous because he gives the uninformed new sportbike rider a great excuse to ride their new bike like an ass****, and they have "scientific proof" that what they're doing is good for the engine.

The advice about not keeping it at the same rpm's for an extended period is likely sound, and echoed by the manufacturers, but all they are trying to do is limit the (very small) chance of the rings not seating as they should. But for that to happen on a modern engine, a person would have to go out of their way to try and make it happen. I.E., take a bike with literally 0 miles on it, take it to a flat and level piece of road, and ride at the same speed in the same gear under the same load for many hours on end. In the real world, even without varying the revs, the engine load changes as our machines go up and down hills, which requires different combustion pressure in the cylinders, which affects the forces on the piston rings in a slightly different manner.

Don't stress.

[mcteague]

I suspect the "keep it under 4k" business is more about keeping you from losing control. By the time the break-in is done you should have developed a sense of how the bike handles, especially with all these young guys starting out on supersports.

Tim

[tlhamon]

I bought some neodymium magnets on ebay when I started riding bikes and I slip one on the oil filter to catch shavings. This is especially helpful right at first as that is when you are going to create burrs.

[tonybhall]

Originally Posted by Alex

The Motoman guy isn't accepted as someone who knows what he's talking about by anybody who actually knows what they're talking about. He's become famous because he gives the uninformed new sportbike rider a great excuse to ride their new bike like an ass****, and they have "scientific proof" that what they're doing is good for the engine.

Loved the entire post. Especially the part I quoted. I was going to say something similar but since you beat me to it you saved me the time.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

... The Motoman guy isn't accepted as someone who knows what he's talking about by anybody who actually knows what they're talking about. He's become famous because he gives the uninformed new sportbike rider a great excuse to ride their new bike like an ass****, and they have "scientific proof" that what they're doing is good for the engine.
...

Even so, I'm sure there's some truth to what he says... manufacturer break in is unreasonable and seemingly unjustified. kkim's method is a lot closer to motoman's than Kawi's.

[andrewexd]

The manufacture's method is impossible to follow on the 250, and the thing is they use the same method for theier bigger bikes, so it is possible to keep the rpms very low on the freeway on a 600 but it's not advisable. I just rode it normally, I did try to vary the rpms in the city but I also did alot of highway riding during he break in period and it was fine.

[karlosdajackal]

Manufacture recommended break in.

I've "broke" 2.5 engines already in other things so I think its time I started listening to the manufacture recommendations. I'm sure Kawasaki know there own engine better than anybody. I actually vlog'd about this just recently. The roads you see in the video are the kind I used to do the first 500 miles (sub 4,000 rpm). It was like serving a prison sentence Once your past 500 though and up to 6,000 rpm its plenty of fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi8TYvEqvQc

[sombo]

I've also seen numerous other mechanics and motorcycle review media show that Kawasaki's recommended break-in on the 250 is not needed nor warranted. Most use a similar method if not the same method (just worded a little differently) as motoman. I've read articles from builders that build the bikes up for higher power/speed and use the 'hard' break-in methods for similar reasons to motoman. So if so many people out there use that method to build and break-in bikes for performance, how can he not know what he's talking about as alex said? Just a thought.

[nate-bama]

I think the recommended break in period is help a manufacturer run warranty time off..never bought a new bike but what's standard a year?
I agree with kkim mostly....ride the bike

[HKr1]

In the early '70s, I rebuilt a 426 Hemi engine and replaced the camshaft/lifters with a solid lifter version from Crane Crams (320 degrees duration...forget the lift, but it was hellacious), along with Iskenderian (Isky) superduty valve springs. Anyway, I digress (love those memories). The "initial" break-in procedure recommended by Crane was "as soon as the engine is running, immediately rev it to at least 4000 RPMs and keep it there for 10-15 minutes." This engine's redline was 9000 RPMs and was shifted at 8500 when racing.

At the end of 15 minutes, I drained the oil and changed the filter. I never had a problem with the engine!

That was a good story, why the delete? Crane cams was my favorite Thank god everything went roller these days, so even us poor folks could afford them.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by sombo

if so many people out there use that method to build and break-in bikes for performance, how can he not know what he's talking about as alex said? Just a thought.

Because he's a moron. He's taken the same pseudo-science silliness we can all find on the internet, collected it in one place, and has gotten a google ranking high enough that it builds on itself.

The only thing you have to read on his page to know that is this:

Q: What is the second most common cause of engine problems ???
A: An easy break in !!!

B.S. Complete and utter B.S.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Even so, I'm sure there's some truth to what he says... manufacturer break in is unreasonable and seemingly unjustified. kkim's method is a lot closer to motoman's than Kawi's.

Just a thought... I'm betting the people who designed the engine know a lot more about it then you do.

I followed the break-in period as recommended by the friggin manufacturer. It's not impossible, though it was tedious for a couple weeks.

[kkim]

a lot of us didn't and we're not having problems with our bikes. what does that prove?

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by kkim

a lot of us didn't and we're not having problems with our bikes. what does that prove?

On the new models it only proves that nothing bad will happen in the first 10,000 miles or so

It probably doesn't make a large difference, but I'm sure Kawi (and every other bike mfg) wouldn't recommend it if there wasn't some reason for doing so. Maybe the bikes will last 150,000mi instead of just 120k, haha.

[andrewexd]

Originally Posted by Alex

Because he's a moron. He's taken the same pseudo-science silliness we can all find on the internet, collected it in one place, and has gotten a google ranking high enough that it builds on itself.

The only thing you have to read on his page to know that is this:



B.S. Complete and utter B.S.

yeah, everyone knows the second most cause of engine problems in NOS energy drinks.

[CZroe]

Ugh. Everyone PLEASE stop playing the "Kawi knows their engine better than ______, so we shouldn't debate and should listen to them" card. Not only are you stating the obvious first conclusion anyone will come to on their own before hearing or discovering otherwise, but it is also well-known that they have not written a single word of their break-in procedure differently in over 30 years. It is the exact same for every engine/bike they sell. There is no engine-specific instruction in their break-in procedure and, therefore, none of their "intimate knowledge of the engine" is reflected in that recommendation.

Originally Posted by Reswob

On the new models it only proves that nothing bad will happen in the first 10,000 miles or so

It probably doesn't make a large difference, but I'm sure Kawi (and every other bike mfg) wouldn't recommend it if there wasn't some reason for doing so. Maybe the bikes will last 150,000mi instead of just 120k, haha.

Well, motoman gave a lot of reasons why the manufacturers would say that. Not just burning off your warranty period, but keeping the new rider/potential future repeat customer alive. Also, conspiracy theories abound ("the manufacturer wants it to break down after X amount of years/miles").

The only thing for sure is that manufacturers do not give bike-specific recommendations. For example, Kawi's instructions have persisted for many decades across all models despite advances in manufacturing and design. To say that you are following Kawi's recommendation because they "know this bike" implies that they developed this recommendation for this bike. They did not, and that is never more obvious than on a bike that requires you to drive over 600 miles at under 35MPH (significantly under if you vary RPMs like you should) just so that they can leave the break-in procedure word-for-word identical.

[Locksmiff]

I picked up a new plated 8th month 2009 ninja yesterday. I was told by the Kawa dealer to take t up to 110 kilometers an hour and let it gently drop off and then bring it back up and let it gently drop off etc.

The dealer knows my route to work and back and based off the traffic said the cunningham Highway would be good for the 110 up and down and Ipswich motorway would be good for allowing it to vary the revs below 110 due to the way it moves in the morning and afternoon. I was then told once it hits 600 kilometers open it up.

I tend to listen to them then anything else.

I previously owned a 2008 model and was told the above by the same dealer and did exactly as above with the 2008 model and had no problems.

[Locksmiff]

Originally Posted by HKr1

That was a good story, why the delete? Crane cams was my favorite Thank god everything went roller these days, so even us poor folks could afford them.

Quote:
In the early '70s, I rebuilt a 426 Hemi engine and replaced the camshaft/lifters with a solid lifter version from Crane Crams (320 degrees duration...forget the lift, but it was hellacious), along with Iskenderian (Isky) superduty valve springs. Anyway, I digress (love those memories). The "initial" break-in procedure recommended by Crane was "as soon as the engine is running, immediately rev it to at least 4000 RPMs and keep it there for 10-15 minutes." This engine's redline was 9000 RPMs and was shifted at 8500 when racing.

At the end of 15 minutes, I drained the oil and changed the filter. I never had a problem with the engine!

I remember having to do the same for a 3.8 Buick V6 that I rebuilt. It had a Crow Cam in it. It had no exhaust on it and had to hold it 4grand for 15-20minutes. It was the recommended .

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by Locksmiff

I picked up a new plated 8th month 2009 ninja yesterday. I was told by the Kawa dealer to take t up to 110 kilometers an hour and let it gently drop off and then bring it back up and let it gently drop off etc.

The dealer knows my route to work and back and based off the traffic said the cunningham Highway would be good for the 110 up and down and Ipswich motorway would be good for allowing it to vary the revs below 110 due to the way it moves in the morning and afternoon. I was then told once it hits 600 kilometers open it up.

I tend to listen to them then anything else.

I previously owned a 2008 model and was told the above by the same dealer and did exactly as above with the 2008 model and had no problems.

The dealer has a vested interest in your bike lasting a shorter period of time, lets say the kawi method gives you an engine that's good for 10 years, and this method makes you happier but the engine is only good for 5 years, well then that's 5 years sooner you will "have" to get a new bike. And with a bit of luck you'll buy it from that dealer.

Having worked on metal i know if you work at it slow you grind away imperfections, if you work at it too hard and fast you grind away that imperfection but can also take away a lump that's bigger than that imperfection was anyway, so you trade a bump for a hole. If you want to see it with your own eyes, grab a piece of aluminum and cut it roughly. Stick it in a vice grips and try to file it with a hand file (same kind of reciprocating movement a piston makes)

Ok they recommend the same for all there bikes (do they really?). That does not surprise me. While the bikes may look different, do different things, one thing that does not change is the tolerances in manufacture that kawasaki choose for best performance/reliability. Nearly every engine in there range uses the same base materials and is designed at full speed to get the pistons moving at around 20 m/s. So its easy for Kawi to say that the ideal speed for one of there piston rings (same materials on most of there range) grinding against a cylinder wall (same material on most of there range) is in or around 5 - 8 m/s.

And before someone points out that there engines rev to different red lines.
* 08 Ninja 250 redline 12.5k, stroke 41.2mm = 17.167 m/s piston speed
* 08 Ninja 250 4k break-in = 5.5 m/s
* 08 Ninja 250 6k break-in = 8.24 m/s

* 09 zx6r redline, 13.9k stroke 42.5mm = 19.7 m/s piston speed
* 09 zx6r 4k break-in = 5.6 m/s
* 09 zx6r 6k break-in = 8.5 m/s

So 2 very different engines with the same break-in advice, but its almost as if Kawi came to the conclusion that for grinding away there aluminum cylinder walls with there piston rings 5.5m/s is about perfect. And after the grinding is done (and oil changed) about 8.25 m/s to 8.5 m/s should be perfect to polish them to a nice finish.

After that you can go crazy cause the job is done. But if people want to believe some anonymous dude on the internet who won't pay to fix your bike if it fails early that's your choice. Me I choose to listen to the engineers who know the materials all Kawi's engines are built with and know all Kawi's engines target 20 m/s and have extrapolated some hard number for breaking in almost any Kawi bike from a 2 cylinder 249cc producing 33 bhp to a inline 4 600cc producing 112bhp.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by karlosdajackal

The dealer [and Kawi?] has a vested interest in your bike lasting a shorter period of time, lets say the kawi method gives you an engine that's good for 10 years, and this method makes you happier but the engine is only good for 5 years, well then that's 5 years sooner you will "have" to get a new bike. And with a bit of luck you'll buy it from that dealer.

You know, the same thing applies to Kawi. They want to sell you a new bike too while keeping you satisfied enough with your old one to stick with the same manufacturer. I'm not saying that I subscribe to the conspiracy theory, but let's not cherry-pick who the motivation applies to.

Also, this is over DECADES. Comparing two modern engines to a procedure created decades ago is not equivalent to comparing a 1970's motor to a 2010 one. Materials have changed. Tolerances have tightened. Computerization has made everything more accurate from the moment the raw materials are cast to final assembly. What has NOT changed, is the recommended break in procedure.

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by CZroe

You know, the same thing applies to Kawi. They want to sell you a new bike too while keeping you satisfied enough with your old one to stick with the same manufacturer. I'm not saying that I subscribe to the conspiracy theory, but let's not cherry-pick who the motivation applies to.

Actually kawi have a vested interest in being known as a reliable brand too. The dealer just wants to sell whatever he can.

[g21-30]

Originally Posted by HKr1

That was a good story, why the delete? Crane cams was my favorite Thank god everything went roller these days, so even us poor folks could afford them.

I thought about it and decided it wasn't really relevant...but it probably still is! I wish I still had that engine/trans. When our first child was on the way, I stupidly sold the car at a substantial loss. It would be worth well over $120K, now. Great memories! Alabama Highway Patrol were definitely impressed with it.

[HKr1]

Have seen allot of new bikes/cars that people/friends have bought over the years. The peeps that ran the crap out of them, right off the show room floor. Couple years down the road just didnt seem to have good power. This was top end speed, roll on's and such. Now this could come down to little tweaks here and there, but some had the same mods. I really think that the first 1000 miles mean allot to new motors.

Originally Posted by Locksmiff

I remember having to do the same for a 3.8 Buick V6 that I rebuilt. It had a Crow Cam in it. It had no exhaust on it and had to hold it 4grand for 15-20minutes. It was the recommended .

Yeah, that was needed on the flat tappit cams. Gets the lifters spining in the bores, keeps from getting the dreaded tap/tap/tap/tap.

[g21-30]

I guess I can hijack my own thread.

For those of you wanting a trip back in time, check out these Mopar Crate Engines:

http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/blocks.html



A major problem with the hemi design was the fact that anytime one changed the spark plugs, the new set would be automatically fouled by OIL. The plugs are installed within a roughly 6" long cylinder and oil would leak around this cylinder into the combustion chamber, while the plugs were out. As soon as the engine was started, instant smoke machine and fouled plugs. Chrysler sold an addon seal kit (more money), which corrected the problem. Of course, the seal kit should have been standard equipment.

[g21-30]

Kerry, our honeymoon was spent in Pensacola and Destin!

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by g21-30

Kerry, our honeymoon was spent in Pensacola and Destin!

You did, when was that?

Dude in our shop built a hemi belvedere, FHO built the motor. I seen the bill on the motor, 26,000 was 572CI. Was kinda sad, he seen this stock hemi car in the dealership he worked at when he was younger. His dream was to have one, so he finally gets it built from the ground up..... and his wife gets him to sell it
I took some pics of it as he was building it, will post a couple pics when I get home

[g21-30]

1973

The engine had 3300 miles on it, when I started the rebuild!

I took the heads to a speed shop in Mobile, but I did everything else. Had a local shop dunk the block and I honed the cylinders, and installed rings, bearings, etc. Replaced the cam bearings and installed the cam, along with degreeing it in. Had the local Dodge dealer install the Sox & Martin reverse pattern kit for the A-727 automatic, along with a 4500 RPM stall converter. I ran M&H slicks with a 5.13 gear. The car won the Alabama State Championship in B/Modified at Dauphin Island drag strip. Never even got in third gear. 8500 RPM @ 125 MPH High 11's.

[HKr1]

Hey Sam, Honeymoon was in 73?

Heres my friends car, It was a gutted blue shell when he got it. He did the paint in the driveway, interior/wiring & built transmission in his garage. He never got to run it at the track, but he did enter it in the base car show. Won two trophies

Few pics from that day:

[akima]

Originally Posted by Locksmiff

I picked up a new plated 8th month 2009 ninja yesterday. I was told by the Kawa dealer to take t up to 110 kilometers an hour and let it gently drop off and then bring it back up and let it gently drop off etc.

The dealer knows my route to work and back and based off the traffic said the cunningham Highway would be good for the 110 up and down and Ipswich motorway would be good for allowing it to vary the revs below 110 due to the way it moves in the morning and afternoon. I was then told once it hits 600 kilometers open it up.

I tend to listen to them then anything else.

I previously owned a 2008 model and was told the above by the same dealer and did exactly as above with the 2008 model and had no problems.

You've gone from a 2008 Ninja to a 2009 Ninja? Soooo... what happened to the 2008 Ninja? Did the engine explode shortly after performing the dealer-recommended break-in? Just kidding

[Locksmiff]

Originally Posted by akima

You've gone from a 2008 Ninja to a 2009 Ninja? Soooo... what happened to the 2008 Ninja? Did the engine explode shortly after performing the dealer-recommended break-in? Just kidding

It got stolen.

[Mr.E]

*Bump!*

So, Im bumping this because I feel guilty. I was keeping it within the 4k RMP's today and yesterday going around the neighborhood, but I want to go out, and need to go out, by monday. So, I started shifting today at 6k, and slowing down and changing it back up to 4k.

I feel guilty though and am pretty uh.... cautious about this. Would it be horrible to just keep shifting to 6k just so I can get to 50 mph, and NOT do frequent oil changes until the 600 mile mark? I have this thing with kawasaki where I pay 60 a month (I know, but im machanically challeged) and they do all the changes and fix ups I need when needed. Im not sure how ever, if I can go in early or frequently. Would this be a major problem? Should I still worry or should I just not care and keep doing what Im doing:

Which as stated before, shift at 6k when I want and just drop it when possible. All my locations that I'll be going are pretty close to eachother, and there are a few stop lights along the way. Someone please banish my fears x-( lol

And to top it all off, my baby seems like she's struggling when she's at 6k. Working too hard perhaps.