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Old August 6th, 2013, 07:30 PM   #1
az3200
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engine bogging down

Just got home from work, and unfortunately I have to make this post.

Tonight on my 16 mile ride home from work, my bike started acting funny when I got to my neighborhood. From a stop, I let the clutch out and start accelerating. at about 4k/5k rpm, the engine starts bogging down and I started losing power/acceleration. It didn't stall nor did it sound like it was going to. The issue was VERY similar to what would happen in the winter and the bike is cold and you try to accelerate when the engine is still cold. T he only thing is it's august in florida, and I had already rode the bike for about 14 miles at this point.

Once I got to my drive way i turned the bike off, and started it back up. Even in neutral The engine would bog down when being revved. It did rain heavily before I rode it.. anyway that water could have gotten down into the air intake?

I've put 10k on the bike since I've had it and never cleaned the carbs and or put seafoam in it. Hopefully it's just something as simple as seafoam. Does this even sound like a problem seafoam would remedy?
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Old August 6th, 2013, 08:08 PM   #2
slickt0mmy
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Hmmmm, I had a similar problem except mine would happen around 7-8k rpm. I ended up shimming the carb needles up a washer and it's been great ever since. So that's one possibility, or the carbs might just be getting clogged up. It seems odd that it would just start happening out of nowhere though.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 08:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickt0mmy View Post
Hmmmm, I had a similar problem except mine would happen around 7-8k rpm. I ended up shimming the carb needles up a washer and it's been great ever since. So that's one possibility, or the carbs might just be getting clogged up. It seems odd that it would just start happening out of nowhere though.

well I've never taken the time yet to play with the carbs.. maybe it's time now? and yes, it literally happened out of nowhere, because up until now (and including the ride leading up to this) there was no sign of anything wrong.

I should also mention that the bike has 34.5k. I've put 10k on it without doing a single thing to the carbs, and no telling how long before i got it anything was done. The same thing applies for the spark plugs.

Oh and the choke was definitely off, and I just put gas in it too.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #4
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What kind of maintenance have you done to the bike in those 10k's?

Here's the service schedule for our bikes.
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Service_Schedule
Obviously yours is well above the 18,000 mile cap they have on there but that should give you a basic idea of things that need done and when they should be taken care of.

As for your problem specifically, I'm far from an expert but all I can tell you is that shimming the needles worked for me, so it may be something you want to start looking into, at least until someone smarter than I gets in here to help you out That, and a good carb cleaning won't hurt. I imagine there's quite a bit of build up in there after 34.5k miles.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az3200 View Post
.........It did rain heavily before I rode it.. anyway that water could have gotten down into the air intake?
May this be it?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...+bowl+motofool

The water goes inside the fuel tank and down inside the bowls of the carbs.

You have to drain those bowls and some that may remain in the tank.

If the petcock was not in reserve when that happened, then you have to drain a lot of water from the tank.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 06:08 AM   #6
az3200
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Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
May this be it?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...+bowl+motofool

The water goes inside the fuel tank and down inside the bowls of the carbs.

You have to drain those bowls and some that may remain in the tank.

If the petcock was not in reserve when that happened, then you have to drain a lot of water from the tank.
Thanks, and I remember that thread...kinda. Going to go outside and try that now.


Being that I live in Florida, and it's summer time....How can I avoid this problem in the future? Normally I park in the garage at home but when I'm at work the bike is exposed. Maybe I'll have to get one of those bike covers?
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Old August 7th, 2013, 06:26 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by az3200 View Post
..........Being that I live in Florida, and it's summer time....How can I avoid this problem in the future? Normally I park in the garage at home but when I'm at work the bike is exposed. Maybe I'll have to get one of those bike covers?
You are welcome

I also live in Florida and have had the same problem several times.

I just cover the tank cap with some plastic sheet when parked outdoors in rainy weather.
The cap has a built-in drain (via that hose in the back of the tank), but some water leaks in when a heavy rain happens.

That water goes and remains in the bottom of the tank, where the normal position of petcock does not reach.
Once you open the reserve, that water floods the bowls, from where can not be vaporized like gas does.

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Old August 7th, 2013, 06:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
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You are welcome

I also live in Florida and have had the same problem several times.

I just cover the tank cap with some plastic sheet when parked outdoors in rainy weather.
The cap has a built-in drain (via that hose in the back of the tank), but some water leaks in when a heavy rain happens.

That water goes and remains in the bottom of the tank, where the normal position of petcock does not reach.
Once you open the reserve, that water floods the bowls, from where can not be vaporized like gas does.



Thanks, that must be what happened to me..except I never fiddle with the reserve switch, long story but mine is due for a replacement/rebuild. Whether my petcock is switched to off, on, or res.. I get the same effect. I've actually ran the tank completely dry when switched to on befoe


Let me report my findings. I just went outside and drained to carb bowls like suggested. tightened them back up, set choke to full and cranked the engine. after a few tries it came to life. Revved her a little bit, seemed ok.. Hoped on and almost instantly the same problem..this time right at 2.5k rpm (with choke off) With choke on it would go a little higher but once I hit the throttle it would bog down. Don't worry though, I think things are good!

I let it idle for about 2 minutes at about half choke, and decided to get on and try again. I dont know what my problem is but I went around the block twice, and all seems normal again. I hit 8k rpm but i'm in the neighborhood so i didn't want to go faster. Seems like everything is fine again? I pray it is!! Maybe there was some water in the bowls and by me draining them, then filling them it emptied/diluted the water to the point that it wouldn't effect the way the engine runs? is that possible?

Will try the plastic over the tank in the future.

Thanks for the help and the replies
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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:08 AM   #9
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Another note on moisture in the tank -

You can also get moisture in your fuel without heavy rain. If the fuel level is low, and you get a fair amount of temperature swings, you can get condensation to form in the tank.

Best way to prevent it is to keep the tank pretty full and use Ethanol-free gas if possible.

If you think you have water in the tank, I would completely drain all of the fuel. Remove the tank and dump it into a clean pan so you can look for moisture and rust. Dry the tank completely before refilling with 87 octane (again- no Ethanol if possible). If you don't remove and completely drain and dry the tank there will be areas where the water will sit that you can't get out by just running the fuel out on reserve.

Draining the float bowls into a clean container can also tell you what the inside of the bowls might look like.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:14 AM   #10
az3200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Another note on moisture in the tank -

You can also get moisture in your fuel without heavy rain. If the fuel level is low, and you get a fair amount of temperature swings, you can get condensation to form in the tank.

Best way to prevent it is to keep the tank pretty full and use Ethanol-free gas if possible.

If you think you have water in the tank, I would completely drain all of the fuel. Remove the tank and dump it into a clean pan so you can look for moisture and rust. Dry the tank completely before refilling with 87 octane (again- no Ethanol if possible). If you don't remove and completely drain and dry the tank there will be areas where the water will sit that you can't get out by just running the fuel out on reserve.

Draining the float bowls into a clean container can also tell you what the inside of the bowls might look like.
hmmm well i haven't been working (just got a job though) so i've been broke and the tank hasn't seen more than half full for a little while now.

I got gas last night before my ride home. I suppose it's possible a drop or 2 of water got in the tank when i opened the cap (the bike was soaked from the rain)

Is it obvious to spot water in gas? even a little amount? The only thing i noticed when i just drained the carbs was a very small amount of dark sediment from both carbs. When i drained the left side bowl...it did look a little cloudy. Does that mean water?

Also, the fact that it seems to be running right now is that any indication that my tank has or doesn't have water? I've never had this problem before and it literally started half a block away from my house last night after a 16 mile ride (thank goodness) On a side note, that reminds me of the time I rode home from work months ago, and as i pulled into my garage my throttle cable snapped. I hope my luck continues...
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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az3200 View Post
............Maybe there was some water in the bowls and by me draining them, then filling them it emptied/diluted the water to the point that it wouldn't effect the way the engine runs? is that possible?

Will try the plastic over the tank in the future.

Thanks for the help and the replies
Water doesn't mix with gasoline and being heavier, will always accumulate at the bottom of the tank or bowls.
A little amount will mix with the alcohol contained in the gas we use, becoming a milky mix.

When I drain my bowls and tank, which should be done from time to time in order to eliminate condensation and rain, I use a glass container that allows me to see clearly how much water I have collected.
When I remove the tank for valves' adjustment, I fully empty it upside down.

The repair of the petcock is not difficult or expensive: having reserve is great !!!

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Rebuild...tcock/fuel_tap

It seems that, after you drained the bowls, you had some more water in the tank, which did flow down after you opened the petcock again.
That water is still there, but is not reaching the jets yet.
I would drain the bowls once again.

As for the debris, it seems that your in-line filter is not working properly.
Any little debris in there can plug a jet and lead to a carburetors' cleaning.

You are welcome
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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:59 AM   #12
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To be really sure it's not a moisture issue you'll need to drain the tank completely.

Anything but clear clean gas coming out of the float bowls tells you there are problems.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 09:06 AM   #13
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I see it now. I drained the bowls a total of 3 times now. The first time I didn't know what to look for, but the 2nd and 3rd i could see the separation between the gas and water. Seems there is definitely water in the tank. I'm off tomorrow, I'll dump the tank then. For today I'm going to have to ride to work. I'll make sure to bring my little drain bottle and tools just in case
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:22 PM   #14
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A little seafoam wouldn't hurt and have you had your valves checked at all? If it doesn't turn out to be water in the tank you probably need to check air filter, carbs, and valves.
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