Beet Camshaft Info-Anyone know how to translate pdf

[tubarney]

I tried to translate it and failed miserably. Can someone please post a translated copy for everyone.

[Motofool]

Brad,

That PDF file doesn't contain fonts; it is a scan of a paper; hence it is a picture and cannot be electronically translated.

Using this method, you may be able to reproduce some Japanese words and then input them into any on-line translator:

http://www.autopenhosting.org/unicod...-Japanese.html

http://translate.google.com/#ja/en/

Note that many words in your document have the English word next to it; also there is an e-mail address for questions and support that probably belongs to a person that knows English.

[Racer x]

Looks like 280deg of duration. And 15-19 intake lift and 20-24 ex lift. But I don't know why you would have a lift range unless you can order different cam setups.

[tubarney]

I think that is valve clearance. Its weird that they did not include lift. Will have to send another email.

[Motofool]

持ち上げる is lift in Japanese

デュレーション is duration

[tubarney]

I tried to translate manually. But the language is so different from ours that I couldn't find one word that I could translate. I'm thinking about going down to a japanese restaurant to get it translated, theres one close to me. Still waiting for a reply to my email.

btw, Your right about it being a scan copy. I asked my brother who's a bit of a computer nerd and he thinks it might not have even been typed on a computer.

[tubarney]

Got a translated partial copy from Beet. Here it is. Turns out is tappet clearance.

[mgentz]

did you ever get the full numbers?

[tubarney]

Will have them tomo. Was busy last week and couldn't get down there.

Also, Actual lift depends on what clearance you have to run with the cam.

Have you got your webcam cam yet?

[mgentz]

not yet. should be late next week.

[tubarney]

Beet Camshaft lift is 0.313 for both intake and exhaust.

True lift with clearances will be 0.306 for intake and 0.304 for exhaust.

My head will be ready this week.

[mgentz]

hmm. it will be interesting to see the differences between the web and the BEET.

My head is on its way back to me now.

Thanks to you and RacerX BTW. These discussions and information have been very helpful.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

hmm. it will be interesting to see the differences between the web and the BEET.

My head is on its way back to me now.

Thanks to you and RacerX BTW. These discussions and information have been very helpful.

Will you be getting you engine dyno before and after the camshaft install?

My engine builder recommends webcam so it should be interesting.

If you could, are you able to take some photo's of the work done to your head? Ill do the same.

[mgentz]

Got the head back...looks sweet. Cams should be back next week. Now I just need to put it all back together and tweek the jetting.

Any suggestions? Current idea is 105 main, 42 pilot, fp needle 3rd slot. I also have their air screws.

[Racer x]

What is your ignition system like? You might need more like 110 main and 48 pilot. Got any photos of the porting?

[mgentz]

Stock..but I have been thinking about your takai coils. When I just had the ap exhaust and piperx filter I was at 95 main, 40 pilot, 3rd clip 2.5 turns. The plug and piston looked awesome when I tore it down.

I do have some pics and should be able to post them soon.

[Racer x]

Cool what pistons did you decide on?

[tubarney]

has your head been done by hand or cnc? Did he use a flow bench?

[mgentz]

Decided on wiseco 12.5:1 pistons as they were lighter and had a larger valve pocket than je to accept the +1mm valves.

The work was done by both. It looks like they did flow it as there is dried fluid in the chambers.

Thoughts on my new jetting?

[tubarney]

airbox in or out? Stock carbs or?

[tubarney]

The dried fluid prob just oil they use to cool the cutting bit.. If the man has a flow bench he will use it.

How heavy are the Wiseco's. The stock bore J&E 12:5 & 13's weight 144g with rings. Stock pistons weigh 129g. Thats 30g difference!!!

If you do the math. Pistons are 1.5 inches from centre of crankshaft. This would create a force of 10 ounces at 500 rpm and at 5000 rpm the force would be 50 pounds. Thats a lot of hp your losing through un balance. Not to mention the secondary vibrations.

[mgentz]

Px filter in the airbox. But I cut out the back of the airbox and removed the bf screen. Much more flow.

I decided to leave the box for carb support and resonance.

[mgentz]

I have a 265 now. +2 mm.

[tubarney]

Can't help you with your carb settings. I don't think I've heard of anyone who runs with a modified airbox, not like yours anyway.

Maybe 40 pilot jet, 106 main jet to start, 2 washers under needle.

[Racer x]

With 12.5 to 1 stock carbs 42 deg timing and Nojima exhaust I ran 115 jets. With proper flow and 265cc you might need close to 130. Don't under estimate this engines ability to drink fuel.

[mgentz]

The pistons are 6 grams heavier each. They are lighter than the je pistons.

[Racer x]

The JE pistons I use are 148 gr and I do notice a little buzz. But not at high rpm and it is not an issue.

[cuong-nutz]

Figure I might as well throw in my weights I measured:

Stock piston: 124g
rings: 7g
pin: 35g

Wiseco 2+ mm 12.5:1 piston: 143g
rings: 14g
pin: 48g

I measured with a wal-mart digital food scale.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Figure I might as well throw in my weights I measured:

Stock piston: 124g
rings: 7g
pin: 35g

Wiseco 2+ mm 12.5:1 piston: 143g
rings: 14g
pin: 48g

I measured with a wal-mart digital food scale.

These are the exact same weights I got on my cheap food scales for the stock pistons. I lowered it 2 grams because the J&E came up as 138 when they should be 136(without rings). I did not include pins.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by Racer x

With 12.5 to 1 stock carbs 42 deg timing and Nojima exhaust I ran 115 jets. With proper flow and 265cc you might need close to 130. Don't under estimate this engines ability to drink fuel.

These stock bore J&E's? What Pilot jet where you using?

I have some calculations to share with you. To break 40hp on a stock bore ninja 250.

I need to make 18.27ft/lbs of torque at 11 500 rpm (assuming this is peak power).

Assuming good thermal efficiency of 29% my BSFC would be 0.47. This would mean I need a VE of 102%.

This would require between 18.47 and 19.84 PPH of fuel and 50.3 to 54.0 cfm of air.

A 15.2 cubic inch engine at 11 500 rpm at 100% VE flows 50.6 to 54.03 CFM depending on thermal efficiency.

Do you think these values are realistic? From what I have read they seem high but not out of reach.

Can't wait to dyno this thing and test my calculations.

[Racer x]

Realistic but very hard to reach. If all the ducks are in a row then you might get 40. But I would be think 35 from 250cc . I keep seeing wider power bands but not higher. The torque won't go to 18.
I used #40 pilots

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by tubarney

These stock bore J&E's? What Pilot jet where you using?

I have some calculations to share with you. To break 40hp on a stock bore ninja 250.

I need to make 18.27ft/lbs of torque at 11 500 rpm (assuming this is peak power).

Assuming good thermal efficiency of 29% my BSFC would be 0.47. This would mean I need a VE of 102%.

This would require between 18.47 and 19.84 PPH of fuel and 50.3 to 54.0 cfm of air.

A 15.2 cubic inch engine at 11 500 rpm at 100% VE flows 50.6 to 54.03 CFM depending on thermal efficiency.

Do you think these values are realistic? From what I have read they seem high but not out of reach.

Can't wait to dyno this thing and test my calculations.

you and I will have to compare when we are all done....

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Realistic but very hard to reach. If all the ducks are in a row then you might get 40. But I would be think 35 from 250cc . I keep seeing wider power bands but not higher. The torque won't go to 18.
I used #40 pilots

I have a 265 now, wonder if I could break the 40 hp mark? I will probably have falicon balance and ultra lighten the crank.....she'll spin up nicely.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

I have a 265 now, wonder if I could break the 40 hp mark? I will probably have falicon balance and ultra lighten the crank.....she'll spin up nicely.

Will be interesting to see if this can be done on our crank and balance shaft.

With reaching 40hp.

It all depends on how much a ported head improves Hp. Wayanlam got 3-5 Hp out of a hand job. Yes hand job. No flow bench was used let alone 100 000 dollar plus cnc machines. Seriously, they are impressive.

Here is how they did it. S**t, I could do that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY4nMkMe_tw

This gain is more than double what he got from the bore up to 265cc, 2Hp.

I need to get my VE as high as possible. I will probably end up getting the Keihin 31mm CR Specials flow bench tested and ported if I need it higher.

[tubarney]

Question mgentz.

When they ported your head. Did they do they rubber pieces that connect the carb to the head?

[Racer x]

You can get different bore sizes for the CR Specials. 31/33/35.
I am chasing 40 hp also. I am very happy with my motor because it held together. But very disappointed in the power. I made 34 hp on the dyno with 250cc. I then did the bore out and ported the head and free flow exhaust. The torque went up. But now makes 32 hp and makes over 30 from 7000 out to 13000 . A wider power band. But the peak power is down. I don't know why???

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by Racer x

You can get different bore sizes for the CR Specials. 31/33/35.
I am chasing 40 hp also. I am very happy with my motor because it held together. But very disappointed in the power. I made 34 hp on the dyno with 250cc. I then did the bore out and ported the head and free flow exhaust. The torque went up. But now makes 32 hp and makes over 30 from 7000 out to 13000 . A wider power band. But the peak power is down. I don't know why???

Thats wierd. Will ask my builder to see what he thinks because I would like to know why to.

My first guess is the intake isnt supporting it enough at high rpm.

I'm going to email Keihin about the cfm of their carbs. I would really like a set of FCR 33mm.

[Racer x]

Call Jeff at carb parts warehouse. He has all the parts and is a real good guy. The carbs are put together by Sudco. Tell him racer x sent you. You will love the carbs.

[mgentz]

I'm keeping the stock carbs for now in order to keep some driveability. And to be honest, the shear cost of this is beginning to be daunting.

As for the head, the rubber intake boots were not ported. My port shape is very interesting because it seems like it starts out stock and then grows as it approaches the valves. It is also D shaped (promotes velocity).

I have pics darn it...just need to post them. Crank will go to Falicon, removing the weight will help quick steering and rev., remove the vibrations and lengthen the life I hope as they chamfer the oil holes for MORE oil on the bearings.

[bruce71198]

I have pics darn it...just need to post them. Crank will go to Falicon, removing the weight will help quick steering and rev., remove the vibrations and lengthen the life I hope as they chamfer the oil holes for MORE oil on the bearings.[/QUOTE]

mgentz, I would like to see the ports on your cylinder head, post them if you can. Is your bike going to be a track bike only ? If your taking the time to ship the crank out to Falicon you might want to eliminate the balance shaft and have them balance the crank for that. Probably wouldnt want to do that on a street bike.