Stripped Allen Head

[Scattcatt]

Alright, need a collaboration of brilliant minds on this one, I was trying to get my front brake pads off and I stripped the head of the hex socket bolt on the holder shaft... Due to the nature of the bolt, I cannot grind the head off and grab it with vice grips since the head of the bolt screws into a sleeve on the brakes. I've tried WD-40 and heat with no success. I've also tried a torx driver and still nothing, it was very stuck as it required a great deal of force from my torque wrench in an attempt to free it before the head stripped. Searched the forums and came up with stripped heads related to heat shields which are easier to overcome since those have exposed heads that can be grinded off. I'm hesitant to apply extreme heat from a blow torch so I've been using a heat gun as these are the brakes we're talking about here.

Possible solutions:

Epoxy an allen wrench in
Reverse threaded driver on a drill
Maybe even JB Weld a wrench in rather than normal epoxy

What do you guys think? Any other ideas?

[alex.s]

big hammer

[Scattcatt]

Lol and what? Smash my head with it? That's about how I feel right now! Trying all sorts of stuff with no results

[AmplexorJ]

this stuff works great
http://www.loctitefreezeandrelease.com/

or liquid wrench penetrating oil works ok.

WD-40 sucks for bolt removal.

.... but yeah reverse action is prolly the way to go.

i have to do that sometimes on my jeep

[SteveL]

Drill it and use an easy out.

Steve

[lgk]

Originally Posted by AmplexorJ

this stuff works great
http://www.loctitefreezeandrelease.com/

or liquid wrench penetrating oil works ok.

WD-40 sucks for bolt removal.

.... but yeah reverse action is prolly the way to go.

i have to do that sometimes on my jeep

Thats funny, i never imagined loctite would go into the fastener removal business

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by lgk

Thats funny, i never imagined loctite would go into the fastener removal business

hey, after all the heads that red loctite has stripped over the years, they're practically creating their own business

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Scattcatt

Alright, need a collaboration of brilliant minds on this one, I was trying to get my front brake pads off and I stripped the head of the hex socket bolt on the holder shaft... Due to the nature of the bolt, I cannot grind the head off and grab it with vice grips since the head of the bolt screws into a sleeve on the brakes. I've tried WD-40 and heat with no success. I've also tried a torx driver and still nothing, it was very stuck as it required a great deal of force from my torque wrench in an attempt to free it before the head stripped. Searched the forums and came up with stripped heads related to heat shields which are easier to overcome since those have exposed heads that can be grinded off. I'm hesitant to apply extreme heat from a blow torch so I've been using a heat gun as these are the brakes we're talking about here.

Possible solutions:

Epoxy an allen wrench in
Reverse threaded driver on a drill
Maybe even JB Weld a wrench in rather than normal epoxy

What do you guys think? Any other ideas?

That's a great way to break a torque wrench, use a normal rachet

I'd be wary of using an impact driver on the forks, and you really don't want to be replacing a caliper (they're about £200 new, ask me how I know )

Maybe drill a small off centre hole, use a punch & mallet to tap it loose.

Make sure to use copper grease on those pins, sounds like the last guy didn't

[adouglas]

Sell bike, get a newer one.

Seriously... you might be able to Dremel a slot in the head and use a flat-bladed screwdriver. Low likelihood of success.

Using a screw extractor is more likely to work.

Heat is your friend. Keep at it.

Worst case... you'll have to destroy the caliper to get it off the fork and buy a new one.

[AmplexorJ]

If applying heat, its best to apply the heat to the caliper surrounding the bolt. (Just make sure you have removed any rubber parts first.) If it still wont budge, Then try it on the bolt.

But the caliper is still on the bike right

And I always use heat as a last resort as you can risk cracking either the bolt or the part. Use Penetrating Oil first. WD-40 is a Lubricating Oil.



Get a carbide reverse action bit set and penetrating oil.

Ive done this 3 times in the past 6 months. It works.


This is related >>>

http://www.ehow.com/how_5601571_dril...der-bolts.html

[Scattcatt]

Thanks for the assistance guys, off to the hardware store to start a screw extraction slot in my tool bench for the bike. @Whiskey, not too terribly concerned for the torque wrench, it's one of those beam ones, not the clicking type, so you can visually see how much force you're putting in at any given time. I wasn't going to go any further than the max that it's rated for

I always thought WD-40 would work for stuff like this, I had no idea there were better things. This may help me out greatly with the myriad of frame bolts that are stuck as well!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Scattcatt

This may help me out greatly with the myriad of frame bolts that are stuck as well!

nice use of the SAT vocabulary!!

[Scattcatt]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

nice use of the SAT vocabulary!!

haha thanks! just one of the few things that stuck with me I guess!

[Scattcatt]

Just got it out! Thanks for all the help guys! I used that Liquid Wrench lubricant, a low heat blow torch (found one at Lowes ), and a screw extractor and it worked like a charm!

[Felipe the Ant]

PB blaster is my favorite if you run into this again. Also always heat the nut, red hot when possible

[Scattcatt]

Originally Posted by Felipe the Ant

PB blaster is my favorite if you run into this again. Also always heat the nut, red hot when possible

Actually did run into this again with the rear brake, red hot would damage the rubber internals of the brake unfortunately... This time on the rear it was so difficult that I may have to replace the entire caliper. It simply will not budge. I've absolutely shredded the head of the bolt with the extractor bits. Been heating and applying that liquid wrench but nothing is working so far.

[AmplexorJ]

Nooooooooo !!!!

[Felipe the Ant]

Try soaking it overnight and hitting it with a hammer to try to shock it loose. You could also drill it out and install a helicoil. Probably cheaper than a new caliper

[Scattcatt]

Originally Posted by Felipe the Ant

Try soaking it overnight and hitting it with a hammer to try to shock it loose. You could also drill it out and install a helicoil. Probably cheaper than a new caliper

Brand new caliper is $220 ish, buying the bolt from the dealer is $15, buying 2 online is $10, buuuut... I just bought a new caliper with new brakes (which I needed anyway) for just under $30 on Ebay. I'll give what you suggested a try just as an experiment to see what I can do. I'll have to take some pictures tomorrow just so you can see the extent of damage that I've done to the head trying to extract this thing. I considered drilling it through and actually started, it just killed my drill lol. If I don't drill perfectly straight and graze the caliper itself along the inside, would that be a big deal? Looks just like these are sliding rods if you ask me, so personally I don't think it would be all that bad. Like I said though, not like I'm going to be putting this caliper back on anyway

[Felipe the Ant]

You usually have room for some slop. Idk what it looks like from the top of my head tbh. Go pick up a masonry bit if you're eating up normal ones

[CZroe]

I hope you're using metric hex socket adapters because SAE will cause exactly the problems you describe. Mine aren't in the greatest of shape because I always find them stuck, but throwing those on an impact wrench would always do the trick. I usually use them with a long T-handle wrench just fine.

[Scattcatt]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I hope you're using metric hex socket adapters because SAE will cause exactly the problems you describe. Mine aren't in the greatest of shape because I always find them stuck, but throwing those on an impact wrench would always do the trick. I usually use them with a long T-handle wrench just fine.

Yep, all metrics, I don't think I have a single SAE tool in my bench all of my tools are in excellent condition too, minimal wear so they grip just fine, it's just how stuck these bolts were. It was crazy!

[jasle]

The correct answer was listed above, twice.

Get a screw extractor/easy out set.

Drill a hole in the center. Beat the extractor in and twist the screw out.


An alternative is to get a drill bit slightly larger than the bolt...NOT Bigger than the Head of the bolt. Drill the center of the head, once you reach beyond the head of the bolt the head will pop off. Then pull off the caliper. Need the wheel off to use this method because the caliper will want to pivot not slide.

I'd try option 1 first.

[Scattcatt]

Originally Posted by jasle

The correct answer was listed above, twice.

Get a screw extractor/easy out set.

Drill a hole in the center. Beat the extractor in and twist the screw out.


An alternative is to get a drill bit slightly larger than the bolt...NOT Bigger than the Head of the bolt. Drill the center of the head, once you reach beyond the head of the bolt the head will pop off. Then pull off the caliper. Need the wheel off to use this method because the caliper will want to pivot not slide.

I'd try option 1 first.

I've tried every solution listed above already, including the ones even I suggested with the extractor bits, none worked.

I already have it taken care of anyway, I've had the caliper off to begin with and I actually just received my new caliper today it was not the bolt that holds the caliper to the frame, it was one of the bolt/sliding rods that secures the brake pads. If I drilled off the head, it would not come out still as the HEAD of those bolts contain the threads, the rest of that "bolt" is smooth for the brake pads to slide over. I would not be able to get the rest of the bolt out as your suggestion would make the hole still to small to extract even the smooth portion of the bolt.

It may be difficult for you to understand without seeing the bolt in person, the part number is 92043-1416, you can zoom in on the image on this website

[Scattcatt]

For your viewing pleasure:

This is what the "bolt" (called a hanger pin according to the website) is supposed to look like. It's a smooth sliding bolt with threads on the head that screw into a sleeve on the brakes holding the pads in place but not restricting their clamping movement.



This is the head of the pin after all of my experimentation. Extractor bits grip, but the bolt is stuck to the point where no matter how tight you put the bit in the drill, it will spin inside of the drill.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Scattcatt

For your viewing pleasure:

This is what the "bolt" (called a hanger pin according to the website) is supposed to look like. It's a smooth sliding bolt with threads on the head that screw into a sleeve on the brakes holding the pads in place but not restricting their clamping movement.



This is the head of the pin after all of my experimentation. Extractor bits grip, but the bolt is stuck to the point where no matter how tight you put the bit in the drill, it will spin inside of the drill.

Did you originally try to move them after dismounting them? vVtheduckVv said in his brake video to only try to loosen those when it's mounted. I still usually forget and have to remount them.

[Scattcatt]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Did you originally try to move them after dismounting them? vVtheduckVv said in his brake video to only try to loosen those when it's mounted. I still usually forget and have to remount them.

What do you mean? I'm not sure I follow like move the brakes as in squish the brake lever with the brakes still mounted to the bike? (yes, I may have squeezed the brake lever a time or two without realizing it, not so sure) Try to take those screws out after I had taken the caliper off the bike? (nope, I left the caliper on the bike to keep it steady while I tried to get these bolts off)

[Mountain Dew]

As someone with lots of experience with this (see to the left under my avatar):

1. An impact wrench/driver (manual or electric/air-powered) is your best friends.
1.5 If you think you're going to have a tough time, hit it with penetrating oil.
2. If you see you're starting to strip the bolt, try once more then move on to torx/impact/dremel.
3. Breaker bars are very useful.

[Scattcatt]

What would you personally do with a heat/shock sensitive part that's stuck if the penetration lube doesn't work? In reality I could be rough on that bolt after I took the caliper off of the frame, but just out of curiosity just so I know for the future. Ended up with 3 bolts total during this 15,000 service that I had get stucks

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Scattcatt

What do you mean? I'm not sure I follow like move the brakes as in squish the brake lever with the brakes still mounted to the bike? (yes, I may have squeezed the brake lever a time or two without realizing it, not so sure) Try to take those screws out after I had taken the caliper off the bike? (nope, I left the caliper on the bike to keep it steady while I tried to get these bolts off)

That one.

[Scattcatt]

So I did it wrong? I could even get it loose anyway though, that sucker was stuck lol. Might as well have been part of the caliper housing itself!

[Mountain Dew]

Originally Posted by Scattcatt

What would you personally do with a heat/shock sensitive part that's stuck if the penetration lube doesn't work? In reality I could be rough on that bolt after I took the caliper off of the frame, but just out of curiosity just so I know for the future. Ended up with 3 bolts total during this 15,000 service that I had get stucks

Extractor.

[Scattcatt]

If that doesn't work? Like I ran into the problem where the extractor literally could not get enough grip in the drill to overpower the screw's friction in the caliper. The drill was just spinning around the extractor. I took a grinder to that extractor bit and carved grooves down its length to give it more grip, but still nothing. I've never seen a drill unable to grip a bit of any type, not in my experience at least, they always grip just fine except that extractor.

[Mountain Dew]

Drill it out and scrape the remaining bolt out of the threads. Re-thread if necessary. I did that for my caliper's bleeder screw. Worked like a charm (except that I drilled through the bleeder seat and it leaked after that :P)

[Scattcatt]

Oh gees haha... Well, good news is I still have the stuck bolt in that caliper, I'll keep drilling away at it to see what all I can get it to do. If it works and I don't damage it up too bad then I guess I'll now have a spare caliper!

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Scattcatt

So I did it wrong? I could even get it loose anyway though, that sucker was stuck lol. Might as well have been part of the caliper housing itself!

No. I just wanted to make sure you tried it that way first.

[Felipe the Ant]

You were turning it the right way, right? haha

It's not reverse threaded is it?

[headshrink]

Gluing an allen wrench with epoxy is a new idea... interesting. Glad you got it out already, but I was a little curious how effective this would have been.

[Scattcatt]

@Felipe the Ant haha pretty sure! I mean I got the other one off right before I got to the stuck one on both calipers, the front one I managed to get off with an extractor, the rear one... Not so much as you can tell from the photos so no, they're not reverse threaded. Just very stuck

@headshrink it's an idea that I'm afraid wouldn't work, not with the epoxy I'm used to anyway. I haven't tried the JB Weld on anything yet so I can't speak for its strength (which I've heard is amazing by the way) but I think normal epoxy would crack and shatter under my current conditions. With a bolt that that wasn't completely destroyed like mine though, you may have a better shot as I'd imagine even if the epoxy cracked and shattered, it would make the allen wrench fit tighter.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Scattcatt

@headshrink it's an idea that I'm afraid wouldn't work, not with the epoxy I'm used to anyway. I haven't tried the JB Weld on anything yet so I can't speak for its strength (which I've heard is amazing by the way) but I think normal epoxy would crack and shatter under my current conditions. With a bolt that that wasn't completely destroyed like mine though, you may have a better shot as I'd imagine even if the epoxy cracked and shattered, it would make the allen wrench fit tighter.

That's a good point. You could try candle wax