How do you U-turn?

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Any special technique to avoid that tailgater clipping our bike while we are slowly initiating the U-turn and he/she expects us to make the wider 90-degree turn to the left?

Brake light on a hair trigger, give it a couple of taps to see if they back off

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Lychee

Begin the turn earlier. Or present middle finger.

How earlier can you turn with cars moving ahead and behind you and with a curb on your left?

All fingers are busy with clutch and brake.

What I try to ask is how to avoid being in the path of the car or truck that follows you while you have to brake (assuming you are not first in line), quick flick and turn slowly in order to keep the bike from running wide into other lanes?

[csmith12]

Realistic options are limited but 2 things I can think of.

Begin the uturn from the inside of the lane. Gives the car as much room as possible to avoid a hit and pass but makes the uturn harder.
Good old fashion hand signals. - Don't make a last second decision to uturn, know ahead of time and notify/alert others of your intent before you turn.



Even if the driver behind you don't know what it means, "hopefully" it will get their attention but don't bet your life on it.

[Ninjamomma]

Why don't we invent a vest you can wear that has l.e.d. lights on the back with statements for the driver behind you.

Example:
1. Attempting a U-turn - watch out for failure!
2. If someone is too close behind (Being nice): You're driving too close (Rude): Get off my tail (Down right offensive); If you want to see some ass up close, go to the video store.
3. At times when you are down shifting to slow down, (or on the little Ninja - just back off the throttle and it takes you down 10-20mph quickly) for a slowing of traffic - a motorcycles little presence and brake light is not recognized sometimes - but a l.e.d. vest stating: "WARNING!.....I'm SLOWING DOWN"
4. But, the only thing I think would work best than any statements is to have a weird big face with eyes glaring (the size of your back) looking at the guy behind you. That'll get his attention to watch you.

Anybody have better statements?

[csmith12]

There are backpacks with led's that do similar.

[csmith12]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[BlueHairSar]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Realistic options are limited but 2 things I can think of.

Begin the uturn from the inside of the lane. Gives the car as much room as possible to avoid a hit and pass but makes the uturn harder.
Good old fashion hand signals. - Don't make a last second decision to uturn, know ahead of time and notify/alert others of your intent before you turn.



Even if the driver behind you don't know what it means, "hopefully" it will get their attention but don't bet your life on it.

In all honesty... on the road is anyone really going to know what that means? I guess it would draw attention to you, but I don't see that particularly helpful. Especially in the 'hood around where my campus is. I would just get weird looks and people blasting past me.

When I'm on my bicycle and am doing turn signals with only my left hand (straight out and to the left for a left turn, and straight up for a right turn) I'm pretty sure like 80% of drivers (and other cyclists) are clueless...

Originally Posted by csmith12

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Realistic options are limited but 2 things I can think of.

Begin the uturn from the inside of the lane. Gives the car as much room as possible to avoid a hit and pass but makes the uturn harder.
Good old fashion hand signals. - Don't make a last second decision to uturn, know ahead of time and notify/alert others of your intent before you turn.
......

Excellent post, Chris; thanks

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Ninjamomma

Anybody have better statements?

Good ideas, Suzanne.

Yes, for cars, a way to say "I am sorry for almost killing you", would be a great thing.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Excellent post, Chris; thanks

I completely disagree with starting the u-turn on the inside of the lane. I think you should start early from the right and apex at the curb. The time at which you are slowing the car behind you should be looking right at you. If you start your turn further left you will be apexing about 3 feet away from the curb and at the same time you will be offset from their field of view when you are most vulnerable. Also I want to end inside the first lane if possible, away from another car turning right into my planned direction of travel.

[csmith12]

I wouldn't say it's right or wrong either way Jon, pros and cons for each. But I do know were I put my trust and it's not in the guy behind me. I can however trust what I can see in front of me and pass judgement on that weather to proceed with the uturn or continue through the intersection in a straight line.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Raising your idle to 3k will make for a very easy U-turn. To be honest I think it's just practice practice practice. I personally put a lot of weight on the outside peg, roll on the throttle til my gut tells me "I'm there," while turning my head and upper torso. I don't go wide ever.

As far as letting the driver behind you know beforehand I'd guess holding your arm out to signal would help them pay closer attention.

[Joshorilla]

I practised my turns on my lunch hour, side note, that aquarium is built inside a Nazi tunnel network used to store fuel for U-Boats in WW2.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

.......side note, that aquarium is built inside a Nazi tunnel network used to store fuel for U-Boats in WW2.]

Very interesting !

For most riders, those turns to the right are more difficult than our turns to the left.

I am glad that we drive/ride on the right

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Motofool

For most riders, those turns to the right are more difficult than our turns to the left.

Hernan say what?

Unless you mean that we can see through left turns better because we're on the right side of the road?

[Motofool]

No Chone, I mean that left turns are easier that right turns for most riders.

At least, that is how it is for most Moto Gymkhana beginners.

[choneofakind]

Huh. I've never heard of that before. Maybe it's because of the throttle placement on the right side?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

......Maybe it's because of the throttle placement on the right side?

Exactly !

While turning at full lock to the right, the right hand and wrist adopt a position against the tank that makes the fine control of the throttle (we don't use clutch) difficult.

As you may know, they ride/drive on the left side of the road in Guernsey, Channel Islands.

[GearMonkey]

Maybe its because I'm still a beginner, but seems to me a U turn would be better started closer to the center of the lane or left, signal, then swing out to center a little so that you're not entering the opposite direction center lane. I'd be worried someone from far right lane would change lanes thinking its clear. Correct or clarify my thinking if I'm mistaken please. @Motofool, @csmith12

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by GearMonkey

Maybe its because I'm still a beginner, but seems to me a U turn would be better started closer to the center of the lane or left, signal, then swing out to center a little so that you're not entering the opposite direction center lane. I'd be worried someone from far right lane would change lanes thinking its clear. Correct or clarify my thinking if I'm mistaken please. @Motofool, @csmith12

No swinging please, I hate when cars and bikes swing out before taking a turn, it's unnecessary and makes you unpridictable. If you want to start your turn in from the middle then setup in the middle. If you want to break the zombified focus the driver behind you may or may not be portaying then throw out a hand sign to grab their attention. Don't turn like a ****ing grandma and less people will be riding your ass.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by GearMonkey

Maybe its because I'm still a beginner, but seems to me a U turn would be better started closer to the center of the lane or left, signal, then swing out to center a little so that you're not entering the opposite direction center lane. I'd be worried someone from far right lane would change lanes thinking its clear. Correct or clarify my thinking if I'm mistaken please. @Motofool, @csmith12

It's purely situational for the most part.

If no one is behind you in a clear intersection, then do whatever is comfortable.
If your at a busy intersection with heavy traffic and cagers behind you, then you might wanna think about lane placement vs traffic and traffic patterns.

Also, if your in a turn only (left lane) then you have much more freedom to uturn into any lane in the opposite direction as long as there are no right hand turners allowed at the same time (your comment).

Above all, uturn as your skills allow safely. It's better to go wide, be inside or outside the lane, ect... ect.. than to be laying down in the middle of the intersection.

[Joshorilla]

My favourite little "u-turn"

Link to original page on YouTube.

at 1:11

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by GearMonkey

........but seems to me a U turn would be better started closer to the center of the lane or left, signal, then swing out to center a little so that you're not entering the opposite direction center lane. I'd be worried someone from far right lane would change lanes thinking its clear. Correct or clarify my thinking if I'm mistaken please........

You will always be entering the opposite direction center lane (or worse) after a U-turn.

See the attached picture-diagram, please.

A rider with no training in slow maneuvers can take around 35 feet of width for a U-turn, a better rider normally takes around 24 feet (represented in the diagram) and 18 feet is the best our Ninjette can do if the rider is able to turn it at full lock.

Normal lanes have a width of 10~11 feet.
The intersection of the picture, which is the one explained in Post #1, has a separator 6-foot wide, and still some motorcyclists go all the way up to almost the far right lane at the end of U-turns.

You are correct, there is danger of colliding with cars that would change lanes thinking yours clear; however, you can clearly see that while you are the one in control.

I don't agree with your (and others') approach about entering the U-turn from the center-right of the lane, since that is precisely the point of this thread: the dilemma between entering the U-turn too fast and go wide or slowing down too much (in the direction of traffic normally turning 90 degrees) at the beginning of the U-turn.

Starting over the center or right of the lane will do two bad things:
1) You are exposed to a hit from the following car for too long (you may be moving fast in a diagonal way, but for the car, you are a brick wall).
2) You are forced to move fast to escape that car, which will wide your U-turn.

Signing is good, but assuming that the driver following you is blind is even better.

[Miles_Prower]

I really need to practice u-turns. It's all in my head right now. I was decent at them in parking lots, but on the street, it freaks me out, especially if it's 1 lane on each side. The thought of running out of road psychs me out, but if there's more lanes, somehow I make the turn lol.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Motofool

You will always be entering the opposite direction center lane (or worse) after a U-turn.

See the attached picture-diagram, please.

A rider with no training in slow maneuvers can take around 35 feet of width for a U-turn, a better rider normally takes around 24 feet (represented in the diagram) and 18 feet is the best our Ninjette can do if the rider is able to turn it at full lock.

Normal lanes have a width of 10~11 feet.
The intersection of the picture, which is the one explained in Post #1, has a separator 6-foot wide, and still some motorcyclists go all the way up to almost the far right lane at the end of U-turns.

You are correct, there is danger of colliding with cars that would change lanes thinking yours clear; however, you can clearly see that while you are the one in control.

I don't agree with your (and others') approach about entering the U-turn from the center-right of the lane, since that is precisely the point of this thread: the dilemma between entering the U-turn too fast and go wide or slowing down too much (in the direction of traffic normally turning 90 degrees) at the beginning of the U-turn.

Starting over the center or right of the lane will do two bad things:
1) You are exposed to a hit from the following car for too long (you may be moving fast in a diagonal way, but for the car, you are a brick wall).
2) You are forced to move fast to escape that car, which will wide your U-turn.

Signing is good, but assuming that the driver following you is blind is even better.

18' at full bar lock is with no lean angle I assume? I'm sure You can go tighter with a little momentum and just a slight lean angle.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

18' at full bar lock is with no lean angle I assume? I'm sure You can go tighter with a little momentum and just a slight lean angle.

Yes, Jason, leaning always tightens the turn since the steering angle respect to the rear tire increases; but is not an easy thing to do at very slow speeds (actually, it also reduces the chance of skidding the front tire since the rear brake is constantly applied).

In Motogymkhana, Japanese riders insist on the fact that better times come from minimum radius and trajectory of the rear tire rather than from charging the turns around the cones with much speed.

If interested, this thread discusses that:

http://amgrass.com/forum/video-pics/...msg430/#msg430

[BlueHairSar]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Yes, Jason, leaning always tightens the turn since the steering angle respect to the rear tire increases; but is not an easy thing to do at very slow speeds (actually, it also reduces the chance of skidding the front tire since the rear brake is constantly applied).

But one thing you can do to allow you to increase lean angle even at slow speeds is to counter-lean. It's one of the few instances where you don't want to be leaning WITH the bike, but instead want to use your own body weight to help counterbalance the bike's lean. Similarly, if you were doing a tight weave at a slow speed, you would basically want to stay upright while you leaned the bike back and forth underneath you.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by BlueHairSar

But one thing you can do to allow you to increase lean angle even at slow speeds is to counter-lean. It's one of the few instances where you don't want to be leaning WITH the bike, but instead want to use your own body weight to help counterbalance the bike's lean. Similarly, if you were doing a tight weave at a slow speed, you would basically want to stay upright while you leaned the bike back and forth underneath you.

That is MSF 101.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Motofool

You will always be entering the opposite direction center lane (or worse) after a U-turn.

See the attached picture-diagram, please.

A rider with no training in slow maneuvers can take around 35 feet of width for a U-turn, a better rider normally takes around 24 feet (represented in the diagram) and 18 feet is the best our Ninjette can do if the rider is able to turn it at full lock.

Normal lanes have a width of 10~11 feet.
The intersection of the picture, which is the one explained in Post #1, has a separator 6-foot wide, and still some motorcyclists go all the way up to almost the far right lane at the end of U-turns.

You are correct, there is danger of colliding with cars that would change lanes thinking yours clear; however, you can clearly see that while you are the one in control.

I don't agree with your (and others') approach about entering the U-turn from the center-right of the lane, since that is precisely the point of this thread: the dilemma between entering the U-turn too fast and go wide or slowing down too much (in the direction of traffic normally turning 90 degrees) at the beginning of the U-turn.

Starting over the center or right of the lane will do two bad things:
1) You are exposed to a hit from the following car for too long (you may be moving fast in a diagonal way, but for the car, you are a brick wall).
2) You are forced to move fast to escape that car, which will wide your U-turn.

Signing is good, but assuming that the driver following you is blind is even better.

Our technique differs greatly here!

Ending a U-turn in the lane closest to the left is absolutely doable. A major reason for this is because I start my turn from the right side of the lane. An exercise in the MSF course is to make a figure 8 in a 20 x 60 rectangle, which is the width of the two lanes without the 6 foot? (or more likely 2 foot) center divider. The ninja can do it! Lean it over, and be smooth. Practice makes perfect.

Regardless if I start right side or left side, the car behind me is going to be there and must see and avoid the slowing motorcycle. I think if I slowed gradually and in a straight line, my behavior is more easily anticipated and avoided.

[Motofool]

I have found this new vid, .........enjoy:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[CC Cowboy]

U-turns are easy. Well can be easy. Well easier if you are proficient on a dirtbike. Instead of countersteering you just have to counterlean (as you would on a dirt bike). In other words, lean the bike into the turn and lean your body the opposite (counterbalance). Thottle and clutch slip right around, wheelie, you're on your way.

[ally99]

I love U-turns. Sometimes I seek them out there are so much fun!

[alex.s]

[SafetyPaws]

See i was reading this entire thread before i realized i just wasted lots of time. I was utterly confused thinking why the hell would anyone cross traffic like that to turn...

See where im from they kall those Palm-Us or MI-Lefts because we dont have those. For us; drivers pass the intersections and (most times) get to a left turn lane that opens up specifically for turning around. How do kagers do non palmU's - that would be some scary ****. Tight korners.

interesting read how its done everywhere else for years growing up here learning the road rules here and thinking just because they all called Michigan lefts that everyone had them, we just coined the phrase... touche thread touche.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

See i was reading this entire thread before i realized i just wasted lots of time. I was utterly confused thinking why the hell would anyone cross traffic like that to turn...

See where im from they kall those Palm-Us or MI-Lefts because we dont have those. For us; drivers pass the intersections and (most times) get to a left turn lane that opens up specifically for turning around. How do kagers do non palmU's - that would be some scary ****. Tight korners.

???????
Whatever they are "kalled" in your area, we all have to to do a U-turn at some point in our riding history, and not always "across traffic". And even if a rider always pussy-foots it, it's a good skill to have in your tool belt.

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

My favourite little "u-turn"

Link to original page on YouTube.

at 1:11

Besides the water and mud on the road... I want to go ride here!

As for U-turns, I'm getting better and tightening up my radius, but it's because I've started using the counter-leaning move.

[Motofool]

As for attempting U-turns on inclined surfaces, try avoiding them if possible.

Please see this:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165106

[CaptainPlatypus]

I've never had much trouble with U-turns. In the MSF class they had us doing figure eights in a box just a tiny bit bigger than a lane of traffic. I've gotten a lot better at riding since my MSF class! Besides which, my ninjette handles a hell of a lot better than the Honda Rebel I was on there. I can do a U-turn in the equivalent of a single lane of traffic without issue, so I'll start at the inside corner of the lane and end up in the middle-outside quadrant of my target lane.

Practice your low-speed maneuvering, guys! If my dumb ass can pull it off, you all can.

[csmith12]

An old timer taught me something a long time ago about low speed stuff. New school tech teaches our wheels act as gyroscopes to assist in keeping the bike stable. When moving at a really slow pace such as a u-turn, what else can help fill the void of 2 missing gyroscopes?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by csmith12

An old timer taught me something a long time ago about low speed stuff. New school tech teaches our wheels act as gyroscopes to assist in keeping the bike stable. When moving at a really slow pace such as a u-turn, what else can help fill the void of 2 missing gyroscopes?

um, ROLLERSKATES!