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Old January 20th, 2014, 01:32 PM   #81
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
............When moving at a really slow pace such as a u-turn, what else can help fill the void of 2 missing gyroscopes?
Great question !!!

Don't know the right answer, but ................ we still have some bubble levels inside our heads:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/38...ional-vertigo/

"The semi-circular canals in the inner ear contain fluid -- think of the bubble on a level. The fluid acts much the same way, sending signals to the brain that help you maintain your balance."


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Old January 20th, 2014, 01:36 PM   #82
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It's a super simple question guys

Hint: There are only 3 things on a bike that spin.
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Old January 20th, 2014, 01:41 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Hint: There are only 3 things on a bike that spin.
front wheel
back wheel
crank shaft
transmission input shaft and clutch wheels
transmission counter shaft
oil pump
water pump

... i count 7.

edit: ****, how could i forget the camshafts!!!
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Old January 20th, 2014, 01:57 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by alex.s View Post
front wheel
back wheel
crank shaft
transmission input shaft and clutch wheels
transmission counter shaft
oil pump
water pump

... i count 7.
All that can be summed up by just saying "the engine", but I feel ya.

If you listen to the throttle control of the guy in Motofool's vid, you will notice something majorly different than Crash's video. The guy keeps a steady medium rpm. So he is controlling speed with the clutch and brakes.

2 ways of doing the same thing. I am not saying it's better or worse, I am just saying that keeping your rpms up is another tool for slow speed turns, such as u-turns.

Method 1: Steady clutch
Put clutch in friction zone and hold mostly steady
Modulate throttle
Drag rear brake if you need

Method 2: Steady throttle
Put rpms at a medium level via throttle and hold steady (something that feels comfortable)
Modulate clutch to vary speed (the modulation is very very tiny and doesn't fully leave the friction zone)
Drag rear brake if you need

My method is a combination of the two.
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Old January 20th, 2014, 02:28 PM   #85
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i donno i personally think 90% of low speed maneuvering is in the front handle bars and the rest in the rear brake. since that stupid "superman" post i've been sitting up on the pegs at lights now. stupid i know but i can't help myself. large adjustments can be made on the bars in a relatively short amount of space and you can control exactly how much of that large movement is going through to affect the bikes angle with the rear brake controlling the gas... you know, being able to turn hard one direction and give just a couple inches of power and it tilts the bike back up the other way... sometimes you have to go back and forth around the balance point but you can affect it by moving your body weight around if you're close to the balance point. doing a quick little spurt to get your motion angling over from one side of the balance point to the other isn't that hard either. especially on a nice and low CG bike like that scooter in the video. and while you're rocking over the balance point you can turn the front wheel any way you want, so you can easily turn it to set up for the following turn
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Old January 20th, 2014, 02:36 PM   #86
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Sure, those cats on the stunt supermoto's balance at 0mph for long periods of time with just weight management and bar movements. I tried it once on my dirt bike and have come to realize that I suck at it terribly. I am sure those cats can do things differently than your average everyday rider.
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Old January 20th, 2014, 02:50 PM   #87
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Old January 20th, 2014, 03:16 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
All that can be summed up by just saying "the engine", but I feel ya.

If you listen to the throttle control of the guy in Motofool's vid, you will notice something majorly different than Crash's video. The guy keeps a steady medium rpm. So he is controlling speed with the clutch and brakes.

2 ways of doing the same thing. I am not saying it's better or worse, I am just saying that keeping your rpms up is another tool for slow speed turns, such as u-turns.

Method 1: Steady clutch
Put clutch in friction zone and hold mostly steady
Modulate throttle
Drag rear brake if you need

Method 2: Steady throttle
Put rpms at a medium level via throttle and hold steady (something that feels comfortable)
Modulate clutch to vary speed (the modulation is very very tiny and doesn't fully leave the friction zone)
Drag rear brake if you need

My method is a combination of the two.
Good post! The rear brake is hugely helpful in U-turns as is modulating the clutch. I have found second gear to be slightly smoother when doing Uies, especially on the 300. It also it helps to look way over your shoulder at your end point as you begin your turn, though it's counter-intuitive as you're nearly looking backwards briefly. Pushing the bike up from under you and TRUSTING that it can easily handle a U-turn with the bars fully locked will get you turning nice and tight.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 03:56 AM   #89
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this might help bad u-turner's

This is one of the skills that you have to learn for your provisional license?????

http://www.wheel-skills.com.au/RTA-m...st-MOST#u-turn
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 09:21 AM   #90
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The three most common mistakes in U-turning, I think, are:

1) Not trusting the bike. (Most U-turns don't even require you to actually lock your bars. Doing smooth figure-8s at full-lock will give you a new trust in your bike's performance at low-speeds.)
2) Not staying smooth and light on the bars.
3) Not looking at your end point.

Mastering the whole trust thing is crucial to reach numbers 2 and 3. Staying stiff on the bars makes U-ies nearly impossible. Trust it, relax your arms, and look where you want to end up.
Edit: Another thing, some folks avoid their fears. Instead, seek out low-traffic opportunities to practice U-turns in the real world. It's the only way you'll get better at 'em!
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Old January 25th, 2014, 11:58 AM   #91
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best method
  1. Come to a complete stop
  2. Put bike in neutral
  3. Kickstand down
  4. Dismount
  5. Lift both wheels off the ground supporting the weight on the kickstand
  6. spin the bike around
  7. get back on
  8. pop wheelie in your new direction
seriously though, 2nd gear to smooth out the throttle jerkiness that 1st has just steer and go with as smooth throttle as possible and you're fine. Luckily the msf box was one of the things that I decided to revisit after I got my 250 and practicing figure 8s for a few hours does wonders to your ability to U-turn with a smooth throttle, as well as your control at low speeds in general.
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Old February 20th, 2014, 06:20 AM   #92
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I too love u-turns and all slow speed maneuvers. On my db I can drag the pegs through a 10 ft diameter never ending series of circles! IT IS ALL ABOUT PRACTICE!

I'm an MSF instructor on weekends and my students always have trouble with the U-turn, but as others have noted, they have no issue with going fast in a straight line. Get to the box and they are jerky, slow, run wide, fall over, wheelie, burnout, crash, put their feet down, stop, forget where they are....the list goes on. Turn your head like a damn owl and look where you want to go!!! From there, it is all about counter-weighting and throttle/clutch control. If you get in a situation, use the REAR brake.
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Old October 15th, 2014, 08:04 PM   #93
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Old October 15th, 2014, 08:47 PM   #94
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@csmith12, you mention the combination of brake, throttle, and clutch. Do you account for counter weighting? On cruiser bikes, I can figure 8 with low throttle, no brake, and no clutch just by really planting the opposite foot. On my Ninja, it takes a solid amount of rear brake.

What say you?
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Old October 15th, 2014, 08:53 PM   #95
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I feel like I just played Pokemon with that soundtrack! Awesome video, though!
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Old October 15th, 2014, 09:48 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roark View Post
@csmith12, you mention the combination of brake, throttle, and clutch. Do you account for counter weighting? On cruiser bikes, I can figure 8 with low throttle, no brake, and no clutch just by really planting the opposite foot. On my Ninja, it takes a solid amount of rear brake.

What say you?
Well of course. see post #86. Some riders can do it with nothing but their "body english", I am not sure that is average talent though. There is a thread about "superman balancing" at stoplights, so maybe many ninjette riders have the skillz.
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Old October 15th, 2014, 09:51 PM   #97
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Oh, gotcha. I didn't know if that was thrown into the mix with your other variables.

All good
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Old October 16th, 2014, 11:34 PM   #98
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^ very nice videos up there
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 02:00 PM   #99
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 02:06 PM   #100
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Holy hell, that, kids, us an example of a U-turn saving someone's life.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 12:53 AM   #101
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A uturn at an already green light is tough because the driver behind you won't be expecting it. I liked the video with all the alternatives. Uturns when the red turns green are easy because of the low speed of the driver behind you.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 10:59 AM   #102
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A uturn at an already green light is tough because the driver behind you won't be expecting it. I liked the video with all the alternatives. Uturns when the red turns green are easy because of the low speed of the driver behind you.
Very good point!
You can always abort the U-turn and keep going with a regular left turn if everyone is moving too fast and things look dangerous.

Total awareness before reaching the light will let you know if you can slow down the car following you by keeping constant deceleration for some distance before reaching the turning point.

Driving a car or riding a motorcycle, it is just wrong and dangerous to accelerate along the turning lane just to slam on brakes at the end of it.
Better annoying that driver than getting hit by his vehicle.
Like for every traffic situation, we must be predictable even to the dumbest of drivers.

The direction of your head just before reaching that point should indicate your intentions as well.
Getting close to the left of your lane will give that following car some chance to avoid you.

All the above presumes that the driver following you is attentive, which is not always certain.
I like watching the eyes and face of the drivers behind me in order to have an idea of what to expect as more probable.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 12:38 PM   #103
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Like this:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Doesn't everyone?

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Old March 3rd, 2015, 04:16 PM   #104
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A practical application of quick and tight U-turns under pressure:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=218727

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Old March 3rd, 2015, 04:19 PM   #105
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Once you get comfortable with U-turns, you find them kind of fun! They're only not fun (to me, personally) when on wet pavement, but that's a mental thing for me. There's still probably plenty of traffic on wet pavement to execute a perfect U-ie. Hell, people drag knee in twisties in the rain!

Awesome video, Hernan! Cool ****!
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 10:07 PM   #106
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U-Turn's:
1) Stop Bike
2) put in nuetral
3) kickstand down
4) get off
5) rotate bike on kickstand
Reverse steps above!!!

Never crashin in a u-turn...... PRICELESS!!!!!
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Old March 4th, 2015, 01:30 AM   #107
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I just drag rear brake a little, works like a charm.
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Old March 4th, 2015, 02:10 PM   #108
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I just drag rear brake a little, works like a charm.
+1
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Old March 7th, 2015, 03:02 AM   #109
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Rear brake definitely helps for sharp turns. I learned this the hard way. Went into a downhill hairpin turn with rear brake, then released the brake midturn because I thought I didn't need it. I was wrong, went wide, then landed in a pile of leaves on the side. This happened 6 months ago and I'm still finding leaves in my bike to this day.
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Old March 11th, 2015, 03:11 PM   #110
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so I found a great example just now, just use a shopping mall

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old March 11th, 2015, 03:20 PM   #111
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^^^ how to piss off 100 people in 1:39 seconds....
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Old March 11th, 2015, 03:21 PM   #112
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Note the name of the video "idiot"
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Old March 11th, 2015, 04:47 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by asdfman View Post
Rear brake definitely helps for sharp turns. I learned this the hard way. Went into a downhill hairpin turn with rear brake, then released the brake midturn because I thought I didn't need it. I was wrong, went wide, then landed in a pile of leaves on the side. This happened 6 months ago and I'm still finding leaves in my bike to this day.

Why were you using rear brake in a turn? On the street, your best strategy is to get all your braking done before you start your lean.

Rear brake helps for low-speed turns such as U-turns or figure-8s, but at high speed, be careful...as you learned.
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