Official Area-P Pre-08 Ninja 250 Exhaust Thread

[Purspeed]

Thanks to KKim's post, I was fortunate enough to have my 2007 Ninja 250r chosen for R&D for Area-P's upcoming 2-in-1 exhaust system for the pre-08 Ninja 250.

Here are some preliminary details:
1. The exhaust will be similar to the 2008+ Ninja 250 exhaust in that it is a 2-in-1 style. This means that the 2007-earlier models will lose the dual exhaust.

2. There will be an optional (included) stopper for the center stand.

3. The center stand on the left side of the bike will protrude after removal of the left side exhaust manifold. So, removal of the center stand may be a preferred option.

4. The exhaust will be available in two lengths. A longer pipe that is more quiet and a shorter, but louder, version. Performance on both will be nearly identical.

5. It should be available in carbon fiber and stainless steel.

6. A bracket that replaces the rear footpeg bracket will be made available (for those who wish to remove the factory passanger brakets).

7. The Area-P system will replace the stock dual-exhaust system and, optionally, the center stand and rear pegs/brackets. This will result in some significant weight savings.

8. If sitting on the bike, the new 2007 and earlier Area-P exhaust will exit from the right side of the bike, similar to the 2008 Ninja 250 exhaust.


Why is Area-P building an exhaust for the 2007 and earlier Ninja 250's? (glad you asked)

Simply put: demand.

Due to the reputation of performance and quality of Area-P's 2008+ Ninja 250 exhaust, owners of pre-08 Ninja's wanted a similar system for their bikes. So, you let your voices be heard and contacted Area-P in serious numbers. Area-P responded to the demand by initiating research and development of a potentially exciting new exhaust.


My personal experience with Area-P:

This is my Area-P story. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

I woke up on Saturday morning (Feb. 21, 2009) and had my bike delivered to Area-P's facilities in Anaheim, California.

Upon arrival, I was met with Mr. Kerry Bryant, the founder of Area-P and R&D chief. My initial impression was that Kerry is approachable, warm and friendly. He is the kind of guy you want to have a beer with, but also the kind of guy that has an uncompromising attention to performance and detail. And I truly mean uncompromising.

I expected to drop off the bike and take off. Plans changed. Kerry's passion for motorcycle performance was contagious and we ended up having an incredible discussion on Ninja's, Ducati's as well as company philosophies.

In the world of manufacturing and performance, people like Kerry are a treasured rarity.

Unbeknownst to me, Area-P researches and develops exhaust systems for Kawasaki, Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki and they also manufacture them. They are the source for exhaust expertise and official exhaust testing for all of the major motorcycle manufacturers as well as motorcycle magazines!

This level of expertise takes decades to develop and is a true logistical feat, especially when you factor in the complex science of exhaust dynamics.

Area-P now produces its own brand and the performance of their exhaust systems are currently unmatched. To industry insiders, Area-P is well known as the exhaust experts and go-to company for exhaust development, testing and production.

To people like me, Area-P is a unique company whose products are supported by data and facts. As many of you probably know, this is refreshing in the world of performance mods since most companies are less-than-honest about performance gains.

To sum up, my first trip to Area-P was very insightful and a sincere pleasure. I will continue to post updates on the new pre-08 exhaust project in this thread to keep all those in line to purchase fully updated.

Those of us with the 2007 and earlier generation Ninja's are fortunate that Area-P is developing this exhaust. The potential benefits are incredible and I personally can't wait to get my hands on the new system.


Here is Area-P's information:

www.areapnolimits.com

Area-P
1240 Simon Circle
Anaheim, CA 92806
714-630-2386

[kkim]

H-

Glad to hear it was your bike that was selected. I know only good things will come of the meeting between you and Kerry. He is a class act from start to finish.

Design sounds a bit more involved than the 08/09 bikes, but rest assured the end product will be well detailed and thought out with a performance boost to boot.

I'll eagerly be awaiting updates on the system as they become available.





Oh, komohana.....

[g21-30]

Congratulations. Can't wait to read your reports!

[Purspeed]

@KKim: Thank you! I look forward to receiving the updates and posting them here. The entire process will take about 2-3 weeks, so there should be some good updates.

@g21-30: I appreciate that. The attention to actual performance makes the data exciting. If you or anyone else has questions, I'd be happy to post answers.

[Purspeed]

Here is update #1:

With the first prototype system, we have a large increase in low end power/rpm. This is primarily because we are able to adjust the fuel screw mixture and allow more fuel into the charge.

The mid range and top end A/F is too lean for a determination of power potential of the initial prototype (a completely common occurrence in the R&D phase). So we will remove the carbs, do a slide hole mod, install adjustable needles, and bigger main jets to do further runs. We may also remove the snorkel assembly from the air box to allow more airflow. Again, all to take advantage of the new system. Until we do these changes of adding more fuel & air, we cannot determine if the design direction of the initial prototype is what we want.

Initial weight savings is around 12 lbs. If the center stand is removed, it will probably be 3 or so pounds more. We have prototyped a bracket that will allow the center stand to be retained. Most people will remove it.

We are still on track to be completed by the end of next week (13th). We have built two other prototypes to test with as well, depending on how this initial prototype ends up working after the Jet Kit is installed and such.

End of update.

[kkim]

I've read of the snorkel removal with the pregens. Seems there is some issue with securing the basket that holds the filter element (foam) once the snorkel assembly is removed? It's an easy fix... would like to know what the fix is, though. Also, I believe K&N makes a drop in replacement filter which eliminates that basket altogether, if I am remembering correctly.


sounds like fun.

[Snake]

I look foward to more reports. I have been waiting quite a while for someone to come out with a quality full exhaust for my 05.

Does Area P recomend keeping the filter box or removing it and intalling filter pods?

[kayfouroh]

Not too happy about the center stand looking out of place.

Also not too happy about our bikes not getting too much gain out of a 500$+ exhaust.

[Purspeed]

Here are more details for everyone

From Area-P's Kerry Bryant:

We will have to install a Jet kit and look at air box mods to take full advantage of the design based on our A/F graphs. We should have the Jet kit on Monday (the needle taper and main jet sizes are different than what we have/use for the '08-09 model). When doing initial baseline testing on a new system, you mostly focus on A/F curves. We do this simply because - if these curves are not within (or kept within) specs, you will never be able to evaluate if your prototype is correctly designed.


Anyway, the mid range and top end A/F is too lean for a determination of power potential of the initial prototype (a completely common occurrence in the R&D phase). So we will remove the carbs, do a slide hole mod, install adjustable needles, and bigger main jets to do further runs. We may also remove the snorkel assembly from the air box to allow more airflow. Again, all to take advantage of the new system. Until we do these changes of adding more fuel & air, we cannot determine if the design direction of the initial prototype is what we want.

End of info.


Let me know if you have any specific questions and I would be happy to get some answers.

I do know that the center stand and exhaust weight savings will be close to 15lbs or more. That is serious weight reduction.

Also, the left side of the bike will look much cleaner.

As far as horsepower, I am hoping for around 7hp's increase. If you had to have a company design the finest flowing exhaust, you would be hard pressed to take your bike to anywhere other than Area-P. They research, design and manufacture for all of the big four Japanese motorcycles as well as many/most aftermarket exhausts.

With their own brand (Area-P), they are focused on pure performance. They use the finest carbon fibers and metals and the finish is second to none. That is probably the reason why they are the trusted private label exhaust manufacturer.

Just look at the performance of the 2008+ exhaust compared to all other aftermarket systems. Area-P clearly dominates.

[kayfouroh]

7hp hm? Since the bike comes with what, under 50hp stock? Guess that's a great gain..


I would love to keep my center stand though.

[Purspeed]

Originally Posted by kayfouroh

Not too happy about the center stand looking out of place.

Also not too happy about our bikes not getting too much gain out of a 500$+ exhaust.

On the contrary, they are in the process of getting a baseline measurement and initial testing shows significant improvements in performance. This is not including the serious weight savings.

Two in one systems flow much better. The aim of the product is to increase performance, so sometimes there will be a compromise. You can keep the centerstand, but the portion of the stand that is used to engage the centerstand will protrude.

Most bikes (including the 2008+ Ninja 250r) do not have a centerstand and many bike owners remove theirs. So, although a few may view this as a disadvantage, I see removal as a benefit.

[Purspeed]

Originally Posted by kayfouroh

7hp hm? Since the bike comes with what, under 50hp stock? Guess that's a great gain..

I think that stock is around 23hp, so 7hp's (if achieved) would be significant.

But, for me, the appearance, weight loss and, most importantly, sound is part of the reason to upgrade.

[Alex]

Stock on the first gens is 26-27 hp at the rear wheel. There isn't an exhaust on the planet that will give you 33 hp at the rear wheel, without significant other mods. I expect the bike to perform better, I expect it to sound better, I expect it to look better, and I even expect it to handle better due to the weight savings. But 7 hp isn't a realistic goal. To get 35/36 hp out of the 1st-gen motors requires thousands of dollars of engine work (new cams, pistons, valves, shaved head, in addition to the intake/exhaust mods spoken of in this thread). I'd be very happy with a 10% gain across the board, which is still on the high end of what most exhaust upgrades can promise.

Thanks for posting up the results so far, and can't wait to see (and hear!) the final product...

[Purspeed]

Originally Posted by Alex

Stock on the first gens is 26-27 hp at the rear wheel. There isn't an exhaust on the planet that will give you 33 hp at the rear wheel, without significant other mods. I expect the bike to perform better, I expect it to sound better, I expect it to look better, and I even expect it to handle better due to the weight savings. But 7 hp isn't a realistic goal. To get 35/36 hp out of the 1st-gen motors requires thousands of dollars of engine work (new cams, pistons, valves, shaved head, in addition to the intake/exhaust mods spoken of in this thread). I'd be very happy with a 10% gain across the board, which is still on the high end of what most exhaust upgrades can promise.

Thanks for posting up the results so far, and can't wait to see (and hear!) the final product...

Agreed. My 7hp hope is simply an (overly)optimistic hope and not based on any evidence to date.

[Purspeed]

Originally Posted by kkim

I've read of the snorkel removal with the pregens. Seems there is some issue with securing the basket that holds the filter element (foam) once the snorkel assembly is removed? It's an easy fix... would like to know what the fix is, though. Also, I believe K&N makes a drop in replacement filter which eliminates that basket altogether, if I am remembering correctly.


sounds like fun.

Hopefully I'll have more answers in a week or so, friend.

[RMLegacy]

I can't wait to see the final version/numbers.

[jpnfrk]

Please post pics when you get it back!!

[BlueTyke]

why does everything have to be in a right hander's world? If the center stand thingie is protruding on the left side put the dang pipe on the left... Protrusion solved...

(I am sure there are legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING having to be in a right handers world but really, seriously... Right isn't always the best. )

[kayfouroh]

Originally Posted by BlueTyke

why does everything have to be in a right hander's world? If the center stand thingie is protruding on the left side put the dang pipe on the left... Protrusion solved...

(I am sure there are legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING having to be in a right handers world but really, seriously... Right isn't always the best. )

Wrong.

Right is right.

[Snake]

Originally Posted by BlueTyke

why does everything have to be in a right hander's world? If the center stand thingie is protruding on the left side put the dang pipe on the left... Protrusion solved...

(I am sure there are legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING having to be in a right handers world but really, seriously... Right isn't always the best. )

I like your thinking. Sometimes you have to think outside the box and go in a different direction.

[Purspeed]

Originally Posted by BlueTyke

why does everything have to be in a right hander's world? If the center stand thingie is protruding on the left side put the dang pipe on the left... Protrusion solved...

(I am sure there are legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING having to be in a right handers world but really, seriously... Right isn't always the best. )

In the case of the 2007 and earlier bikes, you have a valid point. Placing the exhaust on the left side would solve the protrusion issue, but I am not sure how it would affect the right side of the bike's aesthetics.

Tradition and what people expect plays a huge role in design, so I imagine that the design of this exhaust is also within that paradigm.


@jpnfrk:

I will certainly post before and after pictures. I just have to figure out how to get the pictures out of my camera phone.

I personally can't wait to see the actual performance numbers myself. Area-P is very good at being transparent, so they will be happy to share this data with the public. And, if not, I'll post it anyway...HAHA!

[Snake]

Purspeed,
If you can please post a sound bite as well.

[Purspeed]

Originally Posted by rcuriel

Purspeed,
If you can please post a sound bite as well.

I've never posted video before, but I do have video of my bike with stock everything (with sound and all).

I'll probably get one of you guys to help me upload it.

I figure that I will get my bike back by next weekend, so I'll take video and pics and do a detailed write up for everyone.

[Purspeed]

As promised, here is another update I received from Kerry Bryant from Area-P. I have attached (2) images that I received from Kerry that show the air pods and bracket for the battery to optimize the efficiency of the engine.

Let me know if anyone has any questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

Area-P:
"We are finishing up testing the 3rd and final prototype tomorrow. We will be testing this setup with the Stage 3 Dynojet kit, Uni-Pod air filters, and mini-crank case breather element installed. So essentially, we have removed the entire air box assembly. The OEM air box weighs about 3 lbs, so we've saved more weight there as well. On the older model EX250, it responds a little better with the Uni-filters and/or individual pods.

The OEM air box also houses the battery. So we have fabricated a new aluminum battery box. Pictures are attached.

After final testing tomorrow and/or Friday, we'll wrap the project up. I really don't want to quote any hard figures until we have analyzed all the data. Anything else is premature until all testing is complete."

~ End of the friendly update.

[kkim]

Holy clean install, Batman!!

H- you've got a winner on your hands.

[Verus Cidere]

Any ideas on exact prices? Also, I look forward to seeing what the exhaust itself looks like. Gotta say, for the ones available for us older design ninjettes, 2bros looks the best, but I've been hearing from a lot of places (this site included) that 2bros is waaay too loud. I like the quiet core idea but in my mind it also depends on how it looks. As to the performance, I agree with the fact that a 10% gain would be amazing. All I'm really looking for performance-wise from whichever exhaust I get is noticably better throttle response and a sound a little deeper than my little lawn mower on steroids! =]

[Snake]

Purspeed,
Please ask them if they prefer Uni-Pod brand pod filters or if if K & N pod filters are ok to install.

Thanks.

[kbryant]

Originally Posted by rcuriel

Purspeed,
Please ask them if they prefer Uni-Pod brand pod filters or if if K & N pod filters are ok to install.

Thanks.

In some applications we prefer the K&N or BMC elements which are excellent products and will likely last much longer than a foam style filter. You can't go wrong with any of them. But in this particular application we prefer the Uni-Pods for many reasons:

They offer full omni-directional intake (no end cap like K&N). Since these filters are so small (basically 4" long), "volume" is very important. The 250 needs all the intake volume, for the carb size, that it can get. The K&N style filter may offer more "flow", but that also means they can be more porous and let more particulates in if not kept serviced (especially when not using the added protection of an airbox). Being a foam element, they are very easy to clean and oil (just like a dirt bike air filter) and servicing them is normally much cheaper. Even when the oil begins to disapate over time and/or starts to clog, the foam filter protects and flows very well. Best of all, the Uni-Pod/filter normally costs much less.

[Snake]

Thanks Kerry.

[Purspeed]

@ Verus: Pricing should be similar to the pre-Gen models, but we are awaiting word on whether it will include an airbox/battery box mod that will allow easy install of airpod filters. The price will include the center stand stop for those who wish to keep the center stand.


@RCuriel: I hope that Kerry was able to answer your question and let me know if you have any others.

In terms of sound, I believe there will possibly be (3) versions similar to the pre-Gen models; a larger, quieter model, and a smaller carbon and stainless model.

Gains should be at the very least 10%-15% fairly linear.

Kerry Bryant at Area-P provided an update for us yesterday and here is the summary:

Area-P is on their third prototype as of today. The first two prototypes involved a larger and smaller diameter tubing as well as a myriad of combinations using different needles, airbox configuration, etc.

Power gains are in the 10-15% area at this early stage in the process and power gains are down low (4000-6000rps) and then again at the higher rpms. This is not necessarily a bad thing considering the unique profile of the 250 engine. However, it is their hope to make the power more linear, similar to the performance gains of the 2008+ models.

Today, I received word that the R&D discovered a much more linear powerband with the third prototype (better than expected) and they need another week of testing to refine this new combination. The data/hp figures should be in by next week.

The part that is may be quite interesting to 250r owners is that Area-P is considering a value-added package that *may* include an airbox/battery box modification bracket that allows use of K&N or foam air pods. You can see the configuration in the pictures above. Why is this important? Well, because you optimize and gain much better airflow, access to your carbs (for adjustment and cleaning), a cleaner appearance that makes sense and, most importantly, you lose 3 extra pounds of weight!

Besides the performance gains, sound profile and appearance, some may be quite interested to learn that early estimates show that doing the Area-P exhaust upgrade will net result in a ~17 lbs weight loss. Yup, about 17 lbs…

(The 17lb weight loss is an early estimate and this number includes ditchin the center stand, airbox and old exhaust.)

By implication, this means that the rider can gain 17lbs and it will all break even....now where's my box of Krispy Kremes?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Purspeed

....now where's my box of Krispy Kremes?

... or chocolate covered macadamia nuts.

[Verus Cidere]

Sounds awesome. Just some more slight verification.... "Pre-gen models" meaning other 2nd gen exhausts? (2 bros, yoshi, & muzzy)? Also, could you give them a request: The main problem I had with getting the muzzy full system is that the clearance was crappy. You had to cut your bottom fairing unless you wanted it to just melt. I'm hoping they already thought of this, and, as they're very professional, they probably did, but could you make sure they keep that problem from happening with theirs? Thanks.

[kbryant]

Originally Posted by Verus Cidere

Sounds awesome. Just some more slight verification.... "Pre-gen models" meaning other 2nd gen exhausts? (2 bros, yoshi, & muzzy)? Also, could you give them a request: The main problem I had with getting the muzzy full system is that the clearance was crappy. You had to cut your bottom fairing unless you wanted it to just melt. I'm hoping they already thought of this, and, as they're very professional, they probably did, but could you make sure they keep that problem from happening with theirs? Thanks.

Pricing will be similar to our '08-09 model exhaust: but possibly with additional value of the aluminum battery box and/or uni-pod combo. We won't know until the project is completed. We will offer somekind of "Ninjette.org" special, since this is where the original interest of an early model exhaust came from.

We would never design an exhaust system that required you to modify your fairing to prevent it from burning.

[Viper-Byte]

I must say, even though I have an 08 reading this thread is great. Kerry, you are how all people should run their businesses!

[Verus Cidere]

These details sound awesome. Can't wait to see it, and hear what it sounds like.

"In terms of sound, I believe there will possibly be (3) versions similar to the pre-Gen models; a larger, quieter model, and a smaller carbon and stainless model." - Purspeed

So does that mean there won't be a quiet core cf version? If it's priced like your others, I'd definitely dish out the extra $50 to get the carbon one! But only if it comes in the quiet core. =]

Thanks and props to Area-P for being much more professional than Muzzy!

[Purspeed]

Originally Posted by Verus Cidere

These details sound awesome. Can't wait to see it, and hear what it sounds like.

"In terms of sound, I believe there will possibly be (3) versions similar to the pre-Gen models; a larger, quieter model, and a smaller carbon and stainless model." - Purspeed

So does that mean there won't be a quiet core cf version? If it's priced like your others, I'd definitely dish out the extra $50 to get the carbon one! But only if it comes in the quiet core. =]

Thanks and props to Area-P for being much more professional than Muzzy!

@ KKim: they are all gone, friend. Today, they disappeared.

@ Verus: There will be a quiet core version with 100% certainty. There will also be a stainless and carbon fiber option. Although I am not entirely sure, I am fairly confident that both sizes/sound profiles will be available in carbon fiber or stainless.

The exhaust's performance gains and appearance are exciting enough. However, the potential weight savings and perhaps even airbox/battery mod makes the Area-P exhaust a rare gem for pre-Gen or pre-2008 model Ninja 250's. Besides their customer oriented reputation, with Area-P you need not worry about "claimed" horsepower gains and weight loss.

Their products are backed by data that they freely publish.

[Verus Cidere]

Sweet. If I get one of these, I'll be getting the quiet core. My preference for it would be if there does end up being a carbon fiber version of it. Thanks for the info guys. Just for clarification: Above you say that they are finishing their final prototype... So this exhaust will be available in the next couple of months?

[kkim]

Sooner, if all goes well, I believe.

[Purspeed]

Following up on the pre-Gen or 2007 and earlier Ninja 250 aftermarket exhaust from AreaP, I received the following update from Area P.

As of now, it appears as if I will take delivery of my bike this weekend along with the Area P full system. Due to the level of interest, I will be posting before and after pictures as well as before and after video. In addition, I will be conducting an agnostic review which will include my objective and subjective findings of this new exhaust system.

Feel free to post any questions and I will do my best to answer them for you. Enjoy the pics!


Here is the update from Kerry Bryant at Area-P Exhaust Systems:

"We have made and tested 5 different prototypes and designs. In essence, we have narrowed it down to one design that had very smooth linear power. Then another that had very strong hits throughout the power-band, and made more peak power. They are averaging in the plus 10 - 15% area which is what we expected on the older model bike. When combined with approximately an 18 lb weight savings between the exhaust, air box and center stand, that's a pretty good overall package.

I've attached some pictures taken during the prototyping process. Since we have made 5 different head pipe and collector sections, I have not yet decided which design we will put into production until we look at all the data. The one picture of the system without the fairing installed, is a race style slip-fit/spring mount (spring mounts not installed) with merge collector. This design is what we refer to as "pipey". It hits hard from 4000 - 7000 rpm, drops off a little, then hits hard again from 8000 to peak at 11750 rpm. I do like the way it responds with this system. The final version will be slightly more linear.

As with the 08-09 model, the response is very similar between the standard and long quiet mufflers. We'll be doing some sound bytes before the weekend. It sounds slightly deeper than the '08-09 model. That is primarily due to overall larger diameter stepped head pipes, and the removal of the air box."

~ Kerry Bryant

[sometimesido]

Originally Posted by Purspeed

Following up on the pre-Gen or 2007 and earlier Ninja 250 aftermarket exhaust from AreaP, I received the following update from Area P.

"pictures"

~ Kerry Bryant