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Old November 25th, 2009, 11:51 PM   #1
Anthony_marr
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Rusting faster in heated garage

People seem to notice that their cars and/or bikes rust faster in a heated garage than in a cold one in the wet winter season. One says that both his cars started rusting after about 4 years when parked in his heated garage, when his other cars did not have the same problem when parked in a cold garage or in the street.

This does stand to reason. A car or bike coming into a warm garage wet and may have salt clinging to it will rust faster, since the rusting rate rises with higher temperature. It would be better to park a wet car or bike in a cold garage, or even outside in the cold, than to bring it into a warm environment in which it will stay wet for hours.

This of course does not apply to dry and clean cars or bikes which are never driven or ridden in the rain or snow.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 09:22 AM   #2
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Anthony, That is very true. My garage/shop is a constant 60F. The cages get a washdown at the car wash around the corner once a week--concentrating on the undercarriage and the inside of the wheel wells. The motorcycle is left to equalize temperaturewise and is then thoroughly wiped down. I use my compressor and air hose to blow out any accumulated debris--concentrating on the header pipes, shifter, side stand, and brake pedal. A blast of air on the control surfaces--(levers and such ) also helps. Putting a little oil into the Allen Head screws--the four black ones inside the fairing with a Q tip and the two rivets holding the ignition key assembly also helps. I then wipe down the chain--clean it with WD-40 (not the aerosol type because the propellant attacks the O rings) and lube the chain with Maxxima Chain Wax. This does not take a long time. If I am not going to use the bike for a while, I raise it on a front and rear jackstand, plug in the Battery Tender, and cover the bike with a bike cover. I only rode the bike a couple times last winter. It is still in mint condition.
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Old November 28th, 2009, 04:14 PM   #3
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I'd like a little more science behind your guys' claims. My understanding is that rust = oxidation. Key root of that word "oxi" coming from oxygen. Science tells us that cold weather is "denser" i.e. contains more oxygen per unit of measurement, so by those standards a car should rust faster in a cold environment because it is being expose to more oxygen.

I believe you will find more of a correlation between rust and humidity than rust and temperature. My garage is dry and sealed extremely well from the elements. It's warm in the summer, cold in the winter and I see no difference in how fast things oxidize. This house has been in my family for nearly 50 years as well.

I think the storage environment is irrelevant if you drive in snow/ice/salt. You car/motorcycle/didlo WILL rust being exposed to salt.

my .02
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Old November 28th, 2009, 04:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASecretNinja View Post
I'd like a little more science behind your guys' claims. My understanding is that rust = oxidation. Key root of that word "oxi" coming from oxygen. Science tells us that cold weather is "denser" i.e. contains more oxygen per unit of measurement, so by those standards a car should rust faster in a cold environment because it is being expose to more oxygen.

I believe you will find more of a correlation between rust and humidity than rust and temperature. My garage is dry and sealed extremely well from the elements. It's warm in the summer, cold in the winter and I see no difference in how fast things oxidize. This house has been in my family for nearly 50 years as well.

I think the storage environment is irrelevant if you drive in snow/ice/salt. You car/motorcycle/didlo WILL rust being exposed to salt.

my .02
For what it's worth, here is a quote form
http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h101...1015v1_115.htm

"Factors Affecting General Corrosion Rate: Like most other chemical reactions, corrosion rates increase as temperature increases. Temperature and pressure of the medium govern the solubilities of the corrosive species in the fluid, such as oxygen (O ), carbon dioxide (CO ), chlorides, and hydroxides. A rule of thumb is that the reaction rate doubles with a 20F to 50F temperature rise. This linear increase with temperature does not continue indefinitely due, in part, to a change in the oxide film."
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Old November 28th, 2009, 05:04 PM   #5
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Anthony, I have not noticed an increase in rusting since my cages are stored in a heated garage. My garage is dry because it is well insulated and has hot water heat--which is very dry. I do squeege any slush or water that comes off the cars out of the garage.
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Old November 28th, 2009, 05:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailariel View Post
Anthony, I have not noticed an increase in rusting since my cages are stored in a heated garage. My garage is dry because it is well insulated and has hot water heat--which is very dry. I do squeege any slush or water that comes off the cars out of the garage.
Hi Alex,

I think all in all, it is a balance between the higher O2 content in colder water and the higher corrosion rate with higher temperature. The 2X-rate from 20F to 50F is probably the net between the 2 contending rates, and apparently, the temperature wins over the O2 concentration.

In a heated and dry garage, the corrosion would probably occur when the car/bike is wet and warm, especially on the underside and wheel-wells. So, it seems that getting the car/bike to dry out ASAP is the way to minimize rusting. A blower might be the way to go.
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Old November 28th, 2009, 06:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASecretNinja View Post
I'd like a little more science behind your guys' claims. My understanding is that rust = oxidation. Key root of that word "oxi" coming from oxygen. Science tells us that cold weather is "denser" i.e. contains more oxygen per unit of measurement, so by those standards a car should rust faster in a cold environment because it is being expose to more oxygen.

I believe you will find more of a correlation between rust and humidity than rust and temperature. My garage is dry and sealed extremely well from the elements. It's warm in the summer, cold in the winter and I see no difference in how fast things oxidize. This house has been in my family for nearly 50 years as well.

I think the storage environment is irrelevant if you drive in snow/ice/salt. You car/motorcycle/didlo WILL rust being exposed to salt.

my .02
I think it's simple to think that driving you car into your heated garage where it will sit for hours in its saline electrolyte bath(salt and water), will make it rust much faster than the same car left outside where some of that water will freeze easier(and ice is not a good conductor) and or snow fall onto it and melt/wash away some of the salt. Now i'm talking about the underbody of the car, it won't affect much any of the painted surface obviously.. Anybody living in a cold climate where they use salt to clear the road knows their cars are pretty much salt covered for the whole 6 months of winter.

Best thing to do is to spray fresh water on your car and under it to remove all the salt.. it sounds easy until you realise your hose can't be used because its frozen ahah!
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Old November 29th, 2009, 10:31 AM   #8
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In cold environments molecules are less active. Heated up they bounce around a lot more, kinetic energy. Similar to why we put thing in the fridge and others in a freezer or boiling water.

Question though. Will my bike start to rust if the car goes out and comes in dirty. No direct contact with salt, but just having some salt in the garage, is it that bad?
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Old November 29th, 2009, 10:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 250Rocket View Post
In cold environments molecules are less active. Heated up they bounce around a lot more, kinetic energy. Similar to why we put thing in the fridge and others in a freezer or boiling water.

Question though. Will my bike start to rust if the car goes out and comes in dirty. No direct contact with salt, but just having some salt in the garage, is it that bad?
Yes, the greater vigor of molecular movement and interactions at high temperatures is what accelerates the corrosion process.

About your question, I'd say that the wet car in a warm environment will raise the humidity of the air in the garage, and this might impact on your bike somewhat. But unless the salt actually touches the bike, I doubt that it would have any effect on the bike.
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Old November 29th, 2009, 05:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 250Rocket View Post
In cold environments molecules are less active. Heated up they bounce around a lot more, kinetic energy. Similar to why we put thing in the fridge and others in a freezer or boiling water.

Question though. Will my bike start to rust if the car goes out and comes in dirty. No direct contact with salt, but just having some salt in the garage, is it that bad?
Salt doesn't evaporate, makes no difference.
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Old November 29th, 2009, 06:40 PM   #11
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the last 2 cages(Nissans) that i have owned started rusting after just 3 years and i dont have a garage.
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Old November 29th, 2009, 08:20 PM   #12
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Salt doesn't evaporate, makes no difference.
I kind of figured as much but i left my bicycle in a shed with the pool chlorine and all the nuts were rusted badly come spring. I know salt is way different but you never know.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 04:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony_marr View Post
For what it's worth, here is a quote form
http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h101...1015v1_115.htm

"Factors Affecting General Corrosion Rate: Like most other chemical reactions, corrosion rates increase as temperature increases. Temperature and pressure of the medium govern the solubilities of the corrosive species in the fluid, such as oxygen (O ), carbon dioxide (CO ), chlorides, and hydroxides. A rule of thumb is that the reaction rate doubles with a 20F to 50F temperature rise. This linear increase with temperature does not continue indefinitely due, in part, to a change in the oxide film."
Neat. And how many people do you know who's garage is 20 degrees? And if so, for how many months is it going to be that cold? I know it's cold in Canada, but I'd imagine you guys know how to insulate as good as anyone. I'd be more than willing to bet the vast majority of garages are closer to 50 degrees, rendering this article less than relevant given that the linear increase with temperature does not continue indefinitely due, in part, to a change in the oxide film. My garage is hot and dry 10 months out of the year, and I live a 5 minute bicycle ride from the pacific ocean. It's humid AND warm 10 months out of the year in southern california. Never had issues with corrosion. I went to university in the midwest. Cold and dry winters and some of the nastiest corrosion on vehicles i've seen.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 05:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ASecretNinja View Post
Neat. And how many people do you know who's garage is 20 degrees? And if so, for how many months is it going to be that cold? I know it's cold in Canada, but I'd imagine you guys know how to insulate as good as anyone. I'd be more than willing to bet the vast majority of garages are closer to 50 degrees, rendering this article less than relevant given that the linear increase with temperature does not continue indefinitely due, in part, to a change in the oxide film. My garage is hot and dry 10 months out of the year, and I live a 5 minute bicycle ride from the pacific ocean. It's humid AND warm 10 months out of the year in southern california. Never had issues with corrosion. I went to university in the midwest. Cold and dry winters and some of the nastiest corrosion on vehicles i've seen.
It says 20 to 50F RISE in temperature. Meaning the vehicle has been outside in 20 degree weather then put in the 70 degree garage, you have a 50 degree rise in temp.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 10:14 PM   #15
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It says 20 to 50F RISE in temperature. Meaning the vehicle has been outside in 20 degree weather then put in the 70 degree garage, you have a 50 degree rise in temp.
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"A rule of thumb is that the reaction rate doubles with a 20F to 50F temperature rise." The way I read this was as when the temperature rises from 20F to 50F, a 30 degree F temperature rise. And though not strictly linear, I would think that the corrosion rate would be approximately doubled again given another 30 degree F temperature rise.
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Old December 4th, 2009, 07:14 AM   #16
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I read somewhere to rinse of salt with cold water.
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Old December 4th, 2009, 07:53 AM   #17
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Cars in the USA must be really badly built.

My family does not have a garage, cars have been kept outside in the rain, rarely washed in the winter and rust is almost never an issue. My brothers car has some rust as he got a scratch in the paint and left it untreated. Otherwise it would be fine. My car is 5 years old and has never been inside a garage, not a spot of rust.

Of course it helps that we have smaller engines over here and garages are rare, so cars have to be built to last. Its not unusual for a car to come with a 3 year warranty with a 10 year no rust warranty also thrown in. The fact we have small engines means the cars have to be lighter. Mine has an aluminum(does not rust as such) hood/bonnet, plastic front wings, aluminum or plastic for most other things, glass roof (weighs about as much as steel but it won't rust, it will just collect bird poop)

To sell a car that rusts within 20 years of it being sold would be unthinkable to most manufacturers. When a car is 5 years old it has to be tested and it will fail if it has any rust, or a bulb gone, or leaks oil or the stars on the euro flag are not visible on the flag on the reg plate, or the yellow bulbs are not yellow enough, or the headlights are not perfectly alligned, etc, etc, etc.

My car is due a test soon
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Old December 4th, 2009, 04:38 PM   #18
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It's not the surface rust that's an issue, the cars available in Ireland are the same cars available here, don't worry. In cold climates, at least here in North America, roads are often intentionally covered with salt through much of the winter. It helps deal with snow and ice to make traveling safer. But all of that salt that sticks to much of the underside of a car and any exposed mechanical parts, eats away and eventually causes rust much sooner than folks may expect. Heck, the latest and greatest Toyota pickups were just recalled for excessive rusting on their frame when exposed to salt. Here in warmer climates, and even in wetter climates, rust isn't nearly the problem it once was, just as you described. It's common to see decades old cars here with zero rust issues for the life of the car.
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