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Old November 21st, 2008, 03:54 AM   #1
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Lightbulb DIY - Carburetor Sync'ing!

I figured I did the DIY over at another forum, so it'd be fair-game to start spreading the DIY knowledge!

A quick side-note on what this process accomplishes. Being as this type of motorcycle uses two carburetors (one for each cylinder) for maximum efficiency you want to ensure each cylinder is working equally. A sure-fire way to 'check' to see how hard each cylinder is working is by seeing if both of the cylinders are pulling equally. So how do you check to ensure each cylinder is pulling identically ... Carburetor syncing!


First off here's all the parts I used...

(2) Identical glass bottles
(1) section roughly 10'-15' in length of 1/4" ID hose (sold at any hardware store)
(2) rubber corks (also sold at hardware stores). BRING the glass bottles with you so you can find a cork that will fit in the bottle to seal it!
(1) 3/16" 4-way vacuum tee (sold at auto-parts store)
(2) 3/16" vacuum caps

You can use damn near any glass bottle for the task (I liked the tallness of those expensive 'sparkling water' bottles so I used them). Only fill them up a 1/3 of the way with something like vegetable oil (It's preferred to a liquid like water as it won't develop algae). Drill two 1/4" holes in two rubber corks. This is trickier than you'd think as rubber will expand after you drill the hole, so you have to keep drilling in and out into and test fitting until you can slide the 1/4" ID hose in very snugly. First cut a length of 1/4" ID hose that will go through the corks and touch the bottom of each bottle (So each bottle is connected via this one hose). Then then cut 2-4' long or so hoses to actually hook up to the carburetor ports. Each of those hoses will go into one of the bottles (One for each port) and only needs to protrude slightly past the bottom of the cork (Otherwise that carburetor will suck up vegetable oil).

I've scared up a little diagram of the hose routing as to solidify HOW to route it...

On the bottom of the picture I also used one FOUR-WAY 3/16" vacuum tee (although I used the tee in the project so in the picture is a three-way tee). and two 3/16" vacuum caps.


To begin:

I made 'permanent' vacuum taps for each cylinder and I found it easiest to do on the left side of the bike. This entails that you can easily sync your carburetors in the future by simply removing two vacuum plugs and hooking up the sync'ing rig...

Zooming in you'll see a tee that ties into the right cylinder that tees one way to the fuel shut off and the other way towards the front of the bike.


I took this tee out and added a 4-way tee and simply plugged (with a vacuum cap) thus providing a vacuum port for the right cylinder. SAVE the 3-way tee as you can use it for the other cylinder.




If I zoom out a little bit you can see the new tee with the blue vacuum cap on it. Now for the right cylinder...

Remember that little tidbit about 'saving' the 3-way tee from the left cylinder's vacuum lines? Simply cut an 1-1/2" section of hose from where it connects (see above) add that tee, a vacuum cap and viola!

So now you have a vacuum source from each cylinder that you can use to test how much each cylinder is pulling at idle. Sitting right between each carburetor is a lone screw which you can adjust the bias between each throttle on each carburetor (odd wording I know).

Right about now I'd suggest taking the bike out and getting it up to ideal running temperature (with the front fairings off). Hell I ran out to pick up some cheapy vegetable oil myself for the test rig. Once you return hook up the test rig...


There are various ways to check the vacuum force of each cylinder and the two bottle method is an easy way to visually see this. Here I have a hose going from each test port to each of those bottle mentioned earlier. If you look in the middle of the picture and see a small phillips screwdriver? That's the bias screw for each of the carburetors.

Before you say, "How the heck do you get TO that screw?" I've found the ultimate tool for doing ANY carburetor work on the 250's

Your local hardware store should sell this: The Milwaukee Offset screwdriver. It allows you to get into tight confines and turn things that need to be turned .

I filmed a video of the carbs out of sync and of them IN sync, but the quality was lacking and it was hard to distinguish. I mentioned ONLY filling each of the bottles 1/3 of the way up and here's where this comes in handy. After you hook up the test rig and fire the bike up it can be hard to see what's going on. I let the bike run for a minute to make sure it was at ideal operating temperature and at that point one of the bottles was 2/3 of the way full and the other was empty (The carburetors were very out of sync). I started turning the screw down and slowly a very bubbly (and very visible) stream of vegetable oil began transferring back to it's original bottle). Once the bottles were close to equal in oil again I backed the screw off until the bubbly oil in the transfer hose (between the two bottles) ceased moving. Once the oil is still in the tube connecting the two bottles, your carburetors are in sync. Then after shutting off the engine you can disconnect the rig and put vacuum caps on the open vacuum tees.


You can also adjust your idle if need be as the bike is in ideal running order and fully warmed up. People keep asking how and what to adjust the idle to. The manual says 1,350 rpm, but I found the bike happy at 1,500. To each their own I suppose.

In the above picture is a shot with the fairing back in place of the idle adjustment knob. It's easily accessible although you really don't need to use it often (I KNOW a lot of people love turning things and calling their selves mechanics ).
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Old November 21st, 2008, 09:56 AM   #2
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Great thread! Thanks, Vex!
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Old November 21st, 2008, 02:53 PM   #3
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ahhh.. so, it begins.

great revision to the syncing DIY. I like how clean this one is. Thank you, sir.

For those of you that don't drink as much as Vex (sparkling water... HA!!!), I purchased an electronic version of his contraption. You spend a bit more, but don't end up with quite the hangover.

http://www.adventuremotogear.com/twinmax-p-28.html

whatever way you decide to go, a properly synced bike runs smoother.
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Old November 21st, 2008, 07:32 PM   #4
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You spend a bit more, but don't end up with quite the hangover.
I used two rum bottles, myself! LOL!
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 06:00 PM   #5
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ahhh.. so, it begins.

great revision to the syncing DIY. I like how clean this one is. Thank you, sir.

For those of you that don't drink as much as Vex (sparkling water... HA!!!), I purchased an electronic version of his contraption. You spend a bit more, but don't end up with quite the hangover.

http://www.adventuremotogear.com/twinmax-p-28.html

whatever way you decide to go, a properly synced bike runs smoother.
+1

I also went with something different.

http://www.carbtune.com/

Good to have options
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 06:05 PM   #6
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yes, any way to accomplish this is good, no matter the tools used. The message should be, your carb syncing should be checked. Mine was off from the factory when I checked mine with less than 100 miles on it.
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Old November 24th, 2008, 10:00 PM   #7
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Digging deeper

As some of us know Sync'ing carbs is not really as strait forward as check it @ idled and your done. Witch leeds to my Q.... Has anyone checked there cards @ your optimum riding RPM? Under lode in the 8 to 10K range? If so how far off or if at all was your carbs from idled? I haven't taken the time my self to do this but I know i dont really care about idle. I wont the carbs matched when i need the power....

This is not to say that matching @ idle is bad. If nothing els you should do this. Im just looking @ the next step is all.

Seeing that KKIM has a Electronic gizmo I volunteer him to look into this for us all. LOL

P.S. OK get to work.......LOL
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Old November 24th, 2008, 10:12 PM   #8
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Hi Dave,

I've never checked mine at that high an rpm, but I have checked between idle and 3k where you usually rev to take off from. I do see some shift from idle and 3k. I'll do some checking this weekend and see what the results are at 8-10k, but I have no idea how to do that under load in the garage. I'd be afraid to be looking at that thing while riding.
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Old November 24th, 2008, 10:18 PM   #9
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It's my understanding that the carb sync at high revs under significant load isn't nearly as important as at low revs. Not because you want your two pistons to be out of sync, but because at high revs / high load your throttle is almost all the way open, you're using the main jets in the carbs, and any differences between the two cylinders are going to a be very small factor compared to the power being produced by either.

When you're idling along with the smaller jets at very small throttle openings, that's when just a little difference is much more noticeable as vibration and a poorer running engine.
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Old November 24th, 2008, 10:28 PM   #10
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It's my understanding that the carb sync at high revs under significant load isn't nearly as important as at low revs. Not because you want your two pistons to be out of sync, but because at high revs / high load your throttle is almost all the way open, you're using the main jets in the carbs, and any differences between the two cylinders are going to a be very small factor compared to the power being produced by either.

When you're idling along with the smaller jets at very small throttle openings, that's when just a little difference is much more noticeable as vibration and a poorer running engine.
That was my understanding, too, which is why I checked the diff at idle and at 3k... with 3k being close to where you rev to take off. I've noticed that the meter will shift as the revs go up, so I have tried 1) splitting the difference, 2) leaving it equal at idle and 3) syncing it at 3k. For me, I have found leaving it synced at idle gave me a smoother running engine.


I'll check what Dave is asking and see what it is at higher revs. If I remember correctly, after a certain rpm level (5-6k), the meter did not keep changing and the sync diff reading read a constant offset to one side of center.
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Old November 24th, 2008, 10:54 PM   #11
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Totoly agree with what your are saying about jetting and syncking. Im just wondering how much a difference you could see if the butterfly's are off @ a more WOT setting..... in upper rpms. OR if the two cylinders are seeing = Vac do to improper throttle stop settings.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 11:28 PM   #12
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Yes I've had this debate with someone else about syncing at higher RPM's. But I think kkim and Alex rather hit the nail on the head. I'll honestly do the idle and 3k check and call it a day. Usually if you sacrifice the bottom a little to one cylinder it'll favor the other cylinder at 3k. So usually at idle it'll be a little off (say pulling more to cylinder #1) and at 3k RPM it'll pull more on cylinder #2...
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Old November 25th, 2008, 11:42 PM   #13
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Yes I've had this debate with someone else about syncing at higher RPM's. But I think kkim and Alex rather hit the nail on the head. I'll honestly do the idle and 3k check and call it a day. Usually if you sacrifice the bottom a little to one cylinder it'll favor the other cylinder at 3k. So usually at idle it'll be a little off (say pulling more to cylinder #1) and at 3k RPM it'll pull more on cylinder #2...
that's excatly what I've found... so my question to you is, how is yours set?
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Old November 28th, 2008, 12:48 AM   #14
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have not played with the bike yet to check the sync at higher rpms, but wanted to add to what Vex said earlier about taps to provide easy access to the vacuum spigots. I added tees to make extra ports available and ran separate lines out to the side of the bike so when I need to check the sync, it's just a matter of removing the side cover and hooking up the meter to the two hoses shown in this pic just below the tank with the blue caps on them.

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Old November 28th, 2008, 08:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkim View Post
have not played with the bike yet to check the sync at higher rpms, but wanted to add to what Vex said earlier about taps to provide easy access to the vacuum spigots. I added tees to make extra ports available and ran separate lines out to the side of the bike so when I need to check the sync, it's just a matter of removing the side cover and hooking up the meter to the two hoses shown in this pic just below the tank with the blue caps on them.

Thats really trick... but can you still get to the sync screw between the carbs without tearing the rest of the bike apart?
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Old November 28th, 2008, 10:11 AM   #16
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Thats really trick... but can you still get to the sync screw between the carbs without tearing the rest of the bike apart?
nope, but it at least saves me from tearing the bike down to the point where I needed to check the sync only to find out it does/doesn't need it. I did it mainly for when I was playing with jetting and to check to see if each change I made affected the sync.

also, if it does need to be synced, with the Milwaukee offset screwdriver that Vex shows, it's just a matter of removing the left bottom fairing to get to the sync screw.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 11:39 AM   #17
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nope, but it at least saves me from tearing the bike down to the point where I needed to check the sync only to find out it does/doesn't need it. I did it mainly for when I was playing with jetting and to check to see if each change I made affected the sync.

also, if it does need to be synced, with the Milwaukee offset screwdriver that Vex shows, it's just a matter of removing the left bottom fairing to get to the sync screw.
OK, I'm turned on.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 12:37 PM   #18
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OK, I'm turned on.
Aren't you always??? ... but that's an entirely different subject.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 02:24 PM   #19
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Aren't you always??? ... but that's an entirely different subject.
Well yeah! But you're not my type!
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Old November 28th, 2008, 02:35 PM   #20
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Well yeah! But you're not my type!
whew!!! thank you!
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Old February 18th, 2009, 02:18 PM   #21
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I'm made this vacuum setup and was wondering, why did you guys use 1/4 ID tubing on the test rig when the fittings on the bike are only 3/16"? I had to use adapters because there was no way that was going to make a good seal.

Also, thanks for the test port idea kkim. I'm setting mine up similar to yours.
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Old February 18th, 2009, 11:41 PM   #22
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I used 1/4" because I have a ton of it lying around As for the fitament, the 1/16" difference yields no difference in fitament. That and since you're only using the vacuum lines for a couple of minutes at a time (whenever you're syncing) worrying about anything vibrating loose isn't a concern.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 11:40 AM   #23
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quick question. Where did you guys find that four way tee? None of my local part stores have them....
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Old May 27th, 2009, 01:42 PM   #24
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found mine at the local autoparts store. it's in the section that has all the different stuff for vacuum lines.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 08:52 AM   #25
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strange... i looked and they only had eather 90 degree elbows or 3 way tees...
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Old May 28th, 2009, 11:05 AM   #26
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keep looking or buy the 3 way and add a 2 way to one of the 3 way outputs.

btw, why do you need a 4 way?
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Old May 28th, 2009, 11:36 AM   #27
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this DIY points to a 4 way tee to replace a 3 way tee...
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Old May 28th, 2009, 11:42 AM   #28
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sorry... yeah was thinking of something else.

like I said, make your own, if you can't find a 4 way, by putting a 3 way on one of the 4 way ports.

have you tried looking in a couple of different auto parts stores? how about hardware stores like Ace?
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Old May 28th, 2009, 11:49 AM   #29
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i will do a more comprehensive search later today... thanks for your help as always! Now if only i could figure out whether to get a carb sinch tool or to rig one....
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Old May 28th, 2009, 12:33 PM   #30
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try rigging one... if it doesn't work, you're not out a lot of money.

the ones you buy are great and are convenient, but each has their good features and drawbacks.
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Old May 29th, 2009, 08:56 AM   #31
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i found the 4 way tee yesterday at local napa. He had to pull it out of some random box. It was not on the shelf... I will try rigging one i guess... Thanks for all the help!
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 07:05 AM   #32
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I just installed the 3 way tee for the right cyclinder port and just noticed something. I think I may have cut too much of the tubing because it seems like its putting a lot of pressure onto tee on both ends. I don't like the way it looks and it seems that eventually the tees could put enough pressure on the tube that it causes it to wear out. Stupid me.

So I'm off to either buy a longer 3 way tee or buy tubing to replace whats already there and try again cutting a smaller amount of the tubing out. If I read this thread correctly the stock size is 3/16in correct?

Also for anyone attempting to do this...and item on the "Parts needed" list that wasnt included...I dont know what they are called but you need two of those clamp things that secure the tubes to the tee's for the new 3 way tee for the right port. Or you could just use a zip tie as I see Vex had on one of his tubes. Its always those little things that get me...
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 07:10 AM   #33
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I just installed the 3 way tee for the right cyclinder port and just noticed something. I think I may have cut too much of the tubing because it seems like its putting a lot of pressure onto tee on both ends. I don't like the way it looks and it seems that eventually the tees could put enough pressure on the tube that it causes it to wear out. Stupid me.

So I'm off to either buy a longer 3 way tee or buy tubing to replace whats already there and try again cutting a smaller amount of the tubing out. If I read this thread correctly the stock size is 3/16in correct?

Also for anyone attempting to do this...and item on the "Parts needed" list that wasnt included...I dont know what they are called but you need two of those clamp things that secure the tubes to the tee's for the new 3 way tee for the right port. Or you could just use a zip tie as I see Vex had on one of his tubes. Its always those little things that get me...

3/16" is the correct size. FYI...clamps on vacuum lines are "icing on the cake", but not really necessary.
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 07:14 AM   #34
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This is true...but it doesnt hurt to pick some up if your already going to the hardware store to pick up some of these supplies. Just wanted to let others know that these were used in the install and are a good and cheap idea but thanks for the clarification
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 10:12 PM   #35
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I got into the habit of using zip ties on vacuum fittings (and fuel lines for small engines). I've found that using hose clamps it's easy to over tighten them and split the rubber especially over time. Zip ties it's easy to install, cheap, and work pretty well.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 02:11 PM   #36
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I just did this. For some reason my carbs were so out of sync, one of the bottles started sending oil to one of the carbs (the one connected to the fuel tank T). My question then, is how bad is it that oil went to the carb? The bike runs perfect right now and I have not noticed any issues yet. On a side note, when oil went into the carb I noticed water (slightly oily) dripping off my exhaust, it later cleared though. I'm guessing, the bike simply burned the oil and purged the water out. So is the bike going to be ok?
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Old March 19th, 2010, 02:19 PM   #37
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if the bike is running fine now, you should be okay.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 02:33 PM   #38
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Yeah, you'll be OK so long as you didn't hydrolock it or something.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 03:18 PM   #39
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Name: TJ
Location: Ames, IA
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Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r (Tis blue), 2008 CBR600RR

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It'll smoke like crazy for a bit, but like was mentioned, you should be fine (if it didn't go too long the plugs should be fine).

One easily overlooked detail is where I pointed out to fill both the bottles only about 1/3 of the way up (2/3 empty if you're a pessimist ). I actually let one of the bottles run empty (so the other bottle will be 2/3 of the way full) and that will aerate the solution (in your case oil). The little bubbles make it easier to see which way the solution is going or if you're in sync and the little bubbles stop. If you fill the bottles 1/2 of the way up or more then when one of the bottles fills up you're going to start pulling solution into the intake.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 03:28 PM   #40
Betlog
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Name: Dude!!
Location: Southern California
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Thank you guys. The bike is running excellent right now (knock on wood). I also did the idle mixture screw and idle knob adjustments. Turning the mixture screws was a pain since I have Shogun sliders on.
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