Study on Quality of Impact Protection

[gfloyd2002]

So, we know it is important to have gear with both abrasion and impact protection. And as we consider the type of impact protection, we should go with CE rated pads, and CEII rated pads for the back.

But within that rating there are differences in performance that could be important. A german study recently tested the quality of impact protecting pads. The most interesting conclusion from my perspective was that D3o, which is widely used in motorcycle gear (Icon, Klim, First Gear) did very poorly, and worse still was the proprietary Alpinstars Bioarmor. Both failed the tests, calling into question their CE ratings. Sas-Tec products used by BMW and Held took second and third place, including the best buy.

The study can be found here: Motorrad Study of Impact Protection. You'll need to use your browser's translate function if you don't speak German.

[massacremasses]

even translated thats confusing as hell.

[gfloyd2002]

Yeah, it isn't an easy read in broken English. Here are the highlights:

*Pads are judged by how much force the pads allow to transfer to the body. Specifically, a 5 pound weight is dropped on the pads from 1 meter with a force of 50 joules. This is the standard method used to determine CE ratings, and is used to simulate a fairly hard blow to the body.

*The CE ratings allow transfer of 35kN of force using that method to be CE certified. (50kN would be the measurement without any padding at all.) This would be, in theory, the amount of force transferred to our bones in a crash. However, biologists say that amount of force would actually crush the bone. Complete safety for our bones might require as few as 6kN of force to transfer to the bone.

*Because of this, there is a push to reduce the maximum number of kN allowed to be transferred to the rider to pass the CE rating. The new number would be around 20kN. The compromise over what would be ideally safe is a concession to technology -- allowing only 6kN to transfer would result in pads that are too thick and unpliable to allow flexibility for active safety (like steering.) So our goal would be pads meet the improved goal of 20kN transferred. At the very least, we would want pads that are CE compliant at 35kN.

*With that background, just look at each page with the ratings for a particular type of protector. It gives the kN measurements for shoulder, elbow, hip and knee. The SAS-TEC protectors (in Held and BMW gear) allowed 14 to 18kN of force to transfer. This is good. The Alpine Stars and D3o protectors didn't even meet the CE standard of 35kN.

[coondog]

No offense G but did I hear an echo? Just foolin' man thanks, I've always had a CE for my back to replace whatever slide in you're given. The rest I just leave sewn in and velcroed (Vanson clothing up top).

[gfloyd2002]

Yeah, this information isn't getting much interest. Oh well, it is here if anyone wonders what makes for good impact protection or what CE-Rated really means. I'm jealous of your Vanson gear, btw. Great quality leathers. Love that company, but it is too hot and humid down here in the tropics for leather.

[massacremasses]

Its not that I am not interested... I just dont know what most of it means... hahaha

Ill just run gear by you floyd before I get it...

[250rr]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Yeah, this information isn't getting much interest. Oh well, it is here if anyone wonders what makes for good impact protection or what CE-Rated really means. I'm jealous of your Vanson gear, btw. Great quality leathers. Love that company, but it is too hot and humid down here in the tropics for leather.

I found this thread very interesting and important, Floyd. As a new bike rider, thank you for all your work!

[00NissanNinja]

Dammit floyd!!! I was completely satisfied with my astars stuff and you just had to ruin it lol

[saxnbass]

[gfloyd2002]

lol, I've got d3o in one of my jackets, so I've bummed myself out, too! T3 or SAS-TEC seems like the way to go. At least my Teiz gear has SAS-TEC, and my REV'IT stuff has Pro-Life CEII rated stuff all over.

[saxnbass]

Can you fit a SAS-TEC back protector into an A*s jacket?

[gfloyd2002]

I don't think A*s offers a CEII rated back protector, so regardless of the A*s proprietary being fairly poor at CE level 1, you'd still probably want to upgrade for your back. Another member ("wtf") said he fit a SAS-TEC into his A*s jacket with no problem, but looking at the wings on the SAS-TEC, I'm not sure how.

You can still do it, though. SAS-TEC protectors come in multiple sizes, and you can easily cut them to down size with a box knife. (Ask me how I know. ) I was able to confirm with SAS-TEC that the structure of the protector has nothing to do with the protection. They gave some jargon about molecular protection that wasn't changed by cutting. So you can cut it to fit without any change in protective qualities, instead only changing the protective area by making it smaller.

[saxnbass]

Now that is great to know. I've been wanting to get a back protector for my A*s but wanted a SAS-TEC protector. I just wasn't sure it would fit, and if not, if it would be okay to cut it to size. If I understood right, it should, but if it doesn't, I'm perfectly fine cutting it to size.

[massacremasses]

I still dont know what you guys are talking about... and this frightens me

So im better off with my shift jacket then getting an A*'s jacket? Er I dont know what armor they use in theirs?


Im just getting more confused now.

[setasai]

Most jackets dont include a CE rated back protector at all. They have a generic piece of foam in them. Go ahead and pull them out. If it feels light and non-protective, it probably is.

Sastec is the way to go. Although, I think knox TP series isnt bad either.

[saxnbass]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

I still dont know what you guys are talking about... and this frightens me

So im better off with my shift jacket then getting an A*'s jacket? Er I dont know what armor they use in theirs?


Im just getting more confused now.

A*s jacket is great, it's the armour they use in it that isn't top notch. It's not bad, it's just not as good as other CE armour. Most jackets don't come with a CE back protector at all, which is what I was asking/talking about.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

I still dont know what you guys are talking about... and this frightens me

So im better off with my shift jacket then getting an A*'s jacket? Er I dont know what armor they use in theirs?


Im just getting more confused now.

Easy peasy, Justin. Foam armor = bad. CE rated armor = okay. Armor that surpasses CE standards = good. Shift is CE rated on elbow and shoulder, but only foam on the back. There is a really cool little demonstration at SAS-TEC's website. You can drag an drop a piece of armor onto a testing device, then it shows you the graph of how well the armor absorbs energy. It includes lines showing what the CE standard requires, and how SAS-TEC armor scores on the test. The higher up the chart the lines go, the less protective the armor is. You can imagine other armor, like the A*s or d3o armor, with much taller lines peaking above what the standard requires, and therefore offering less protection. It might help explain things for you a bit.

[massacremasses]

so the CE rated armor in the Shift jacket is better than the A* jacket armor?


dang. Im about to get me an A* jacket?!

[saxnbass]

So I called up RevZilla with plans on ordering the SAS-TEC insert, and the guy asked what jacket I had. When I told him, he told me he'd use the A*s Bionic Air insert, as it snaps into place and is meant for the A*s jacket. On the note of CE I vs CE II, he said it's not that big of a difference, and he'd prefer having the protector that's fitted for the insert pocket and snaps into place so it sits where it needs to sit.

Why did he have to say those things? I as ready to get the SAS-TEC and now I'm not so sure anymore.

[WhiteRice]

Awesome, looks like I'm buying Dianese from now on.

[Sailariel]

I have not had the"pleasure" of cash testing any of my stuff. In the past -- when I started riding, you were really safety conscious if you wore a Bell Magnum 3/4 Helmet, a Langlitz leather jacket/shirt, a pair of Harness Boots, and a pair of those thin driving gloves with all the holes punched in them for ventilation. For eye protection you wore safety glasses or goggles.

Times have changed. I wore that "Kit" when I first got my Ninja, and people doubled over in laughter. My boots were OK, and the shirt was admired for its looks but virtually useless for protection. For riding pants, I wore my usual Levis.

A friend who rides a VFR 600 took me shopping.

I ended up with a First Gear leather jacket with no armor for around town, a Tourmaster Raven Jacket with armor, ICON Arc pants, Joe Rocket Meteor Boots, Joe Rocket Gloves--summer and cold weather, and an HJC Modular Helmet.

This year I got a Honda Jacket in Red and Black made by Joe Rocket with complete armor, a pair of Tourmaster boots, and a Nolan N-102 Helmet. Plans are to get a pair of Dragging Jeans for riding in town.

I think that I am in good shape clothingwise. I am considering an Aerostich Roadcrafter one piece--Light for touring.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by saxnbass

On the note of CE I vs CE II, he said it's not that big of a difference, and he'd prefer having the protector that's fitted for the insert pocket and snaps into place so it sits where it needs to sit.

Two points here. One, CE II offers twice the amount of energy absorption of CE I. The cut-off for the average transmitted peak force in CE II level certification is 9 kN. For CE I, it doubles and goes up to 18 kN. To put those numbers in perspective, I have seen research on spinal injuries that suggest that even a direct blow to the spine at 4 kN is enough to cause lumbar fracture. At 10 kN, there roughly a 50% chance of injury. So consider the numbers and decide whether you'd rather have a CE I or CE II rated piece protecting your spine.

Second point, I can see his logic behind the importance of proper fit and having the protector sit in place. Regardless of whether it is CE I or II, the protector won't do any good if it shifts during an accident. Nonetheless, if you cut the SAS-TEC piece to a precise fit for that back protector pocket, I don't see how it would slide around any more or less than the original A* piece. There's always a bit of play in most of the jackets I've seen with the back protector pocket.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Yeah, this information isn't getting much interest. Oh well, it is here if anyone wonders what makes for good impact protection or what CE-Rated really means. I'm jealous of your Vanson gear, btw. Great quality leathers. Love that company, but it is too hot and humid down here in the tropics for leather.

When I visit family I go to their factory/store in Fall River, Massachusetts. Even their race outfits are sold "used." Now I'm in the tropics and have had their air max jacket (full armor with steel button snap adjusters on arms and waist, shoulder and back armor.) They change names of their jackets when improved (changed) but check out what they're offering if/when you're in the market again. Your info./posts are always for our service and for me, thankful. Peace out brother.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by Boom King

Two points here. One, CE II offers twice the amount of energy absorption of CE I. The cut-off for the average transmitted peak force in CE II level certification is 9 kN. For CE I, it doubles and goes up to 18 kN. To put those numbers in perspective, I have seen research on spinal injuries that suggest that even a direct blow to the spine at 4 kN is enough to cause lumbar fracture. At 10 kN, there roughly a 50% chance of injury. So consider the numbers and decide whether you'd rather have a CE I or CE II rated piece protecting your spine.

Second point, I can see his logic behind the importance of proper fit and having the protector sit in place. Regardless of whether it is CE I or II, the protector won't do any good if it shifts during an accident. Nonetheless, if you cut the SAS-TEC piece to a precise fit for that back protector pocket, I don't see how it would slide around any more or less than the original A* piece. There's always a bit of play in most of the jackets I've seen with the back protector pocket.

[saxnbass]

Does SAS-TEC make boob inserts... errr... chest inserts too? I've only been able to find A*s chest inserts.

[gfloyd2002]

SAS-TEC Chest Protector

[saxnbass]

Is that an insert for putting inside the jacket itself? I can't imagine how that would go into a jacket pocket. Anybody happen to know if this fits in the A*s chest compartments?

[kaiserz]

Good to know that I have a full sas-tec armor (: thanks for the post ffloyd.

[Momaru]

Interesting read, thanks Floyd!

Here's a link to a pdf of another study from RiDE magazine a few years back on back protectors. It's pretty straightforward and is rather surprising at points.

I may be investing in replacement armor for several pieces of gear sometime soon...

[gfloyd2002]

Thanks for the back protector link, Paul. Wow, Dainese in last place!