Front sprocket change help!

[RedNinja21]

As title stated. I'm going with the 15/44 set up, however, for the life of me, I cannot get the front sprocket lose.

I've read every diy posts and watched all the videos there are. I did the "put all the weight on the rear brake", I did the 4x4 in the rear wheel. Hell, I even did both at the same time, nothing worked. The rear wheel seems to keep moving. And when it was not moving, I put so much force into it that I was literally lifting the bike off the rear stand. Luckily, it didn't tip over.

Now, for the guys that have done this change themselves (alone), any pointers would definitely be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[TnNinjaGirl]

Air impact wrench

[CZroe]

Are you using a breaker bar with plenty of leverage?

Originally Posted by TnNinjaGirl

Air impact wrench

Doesn't have to be air! I used a 12v "emergency" impact wrench connected to the bike's battery. I paid $20 after coupon from Harbor Freight ($25 w/o coupon). There is a rebranded Kawasaki one with a bit more torque for about twice the price. With a set of Allen/Hex key sockets, metric sockets, and some screwdriver bits in a 1/8" socket, it comes in handy for sprocket nuts, bar ends, brake rotor bolts, etc. Heck, I often find my axle nuts so tight that trying to turn them lifts the bike! It made short work of my front axle nut the other day when all the torque I could apply manually just made the axle spin.

[RedNinja21]

I'm just using a good old torque socket wrench, not air nor impact wrench. I'll look into those and how does it work?

Sorry, not a real handy man, but I'm trying.

[Motofool]

Soak those bolts with WD-40 several times for an hour or so.

Be sure that you are applying the torque in the correct direction and that the gear is in 1st.

Do you have a break bar and a rubber mallet?

Always push or hit down and use a six point socket.

You can also use a piece of pipe over the break bar to multiply the force of your hands.

Best

[Motofool]

Respecting Trixter's opinion, just one word in defense of my old friend:

WD-40 has worked for me for the discussed purpose as good as plain kerosene has.

The trick is in the light mineral oil it contains (15%) and in the hexane (50%) penetrating solvent.

Liquid wrench is the only better choice that I have found.

For penetrating in between two stuck metal surfaces a lubricant like regular motor oil is not the ideal agent; however, capillarity will suck any light liquid if some time is allowed.

Those two M8 bolts won't need superhuman torque to be liberated from the thickness of that little sprocket.

I do agree on the no-no use of a torque wrench for un-torquing.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

I'm just using a good old torque socket wrench, not air nor impact wrench. I'll look into those and how does it work?

Sorry, not a real handy man, but I'm trying.

Breaker bar works with leverage, but sometimes all the torque in the word isn't going to do it. For example, I had a T-handle thing that let me put a ton of torque on the bar ends and all it means was that it effortlessly destroyed the screws without slipping. I used the same thing on the front axle and the axle just turned. I used the same thing on the rear axle and it lifted the bike off the stands without turning! Sometimes, you need sudden, powerful, turning force, so that the motionless object's tendency to stay motionless contributes to the success of turning the nut. An impact hammer provides this in a screwdriver form that required whacking with a heavy mallet, but these other uses require a bit more. I think that air impact wrenches use the air to spin a heavy weight that then slams into the shaft that turns the sprocket making a fast snapping sound. My electric one has to spin up (takes time) before it starts knocking at a much slower rate than an air wrench, so I guess it is like using a pulley to achieve a stronger effect with more motion.

You can try adding an impact force to your traditional leverage (jerk or whack it) but the longer it is with more leverage the more flexibility it has for absorbing those impact forces. In fact, they make sockets out of stiffer materials specifically for impact wrenches because even the flex in the socket can absorb and negate some of the sudden force from an impact wrench. That's also why people said to use 6-point sockets. There is more transferred force with less flex and chance of slippage. A torque wrench is nice and long for leverage but it will get out of calibration if you use it for such things!

[setasai]

I'd go with the impact wrench. Breaker bar is fine but DO NOT use the torque wrench. It isnt designed for this kind of use and you can damage the calibration in it.

Also, dont pull up on the wrench, push down on it. That way you can set it up and use a jerking motion to push it into the ground with gravity helping you.

Be careful though, a member here "may" have damaged the crankshaft doing it with a breakerbar and have recommended using the impact wrench instead.

WD-40 or any other junk isnt going to help in this case because it'll take forever to get into the threads and help loosen things up.

If you didnt get the idea, just buy that impact wrench or bring your bike to a shop and ask them to get the nut off for you.

[RedNinja21]

Great, thanks alot for the advice.

I will go to HF tomorrow to get the impact wrench. Just making sure, even with the impact wrench, I should put the bike in 1st gear and step on the rear brake, correct?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

Great, thanks alot for the advice.

I will go to HF tomorrow to get the impact wrench. Just making sure, even with the impact wrench, I should put the bike in 1st gear and step on the rear brake, correct?

I had detached the chain with a Harbor Freight chain-breaker so I reattached it with my "bent coat-hanger master link" and placed a cut shovel handle through the spokes of the rear wheel. I think I was running the engine because I wasn't sure if the battery was enough to power the wrench, which would mean that I was in neutral instead of 1st gear. I did have my mother hold the rear brake, but I doubt all that was necessary because it came right off.

Anyway, the 12v emergency impact wrench I found at HF was nowhere near the other air or electric impact wrenches. It had a red tag and it was the last one in stock at the store I was in, so I think it was on clearance and they weren't restocking. I hope they still have them at the store you go to. You can usually find a printable 20% off coupon or clip one from the Sunday paper or a motorcycle magazine (I subscribe to Sport Rider and they advertise with the coupon in every issue).

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt...nch-92349.html

Ask for Item #92349.

Even the more powerful Kawasaki one sold elsewhere for $50 only comes with SAE impact sockets, so you might want to get the 27mm impact socket while you are there (black sockets; less flexible). If you want to use it on brake discs and caliper mounts, get a set of metric hex/allen sockets too. I actually bought my set from Sears for $10 (Craftsman's cheaper "Evo" series that still has a lifetime warranty but requires a receipt).

And, just to be clear, you need to power it from the bike's battery or a car lighter socket (has the plug and clamp terminals for both). Don't push like a drill. I did and it wouldn't impact until I relaxed pressure.

[RedNinja21]

Thanks Jet. I found the impact wrench, after the coupon I had, came out to be $19.99 sweetttt...I just wish the impact wrench could have plug into the wall outlet, so I don't need to take off the side panels and the seat.

Also picked up the heavy duty chain breaker for $15.99. Going to try to have this done before today ends.

[mkulchar]

it was tuff for me also, but i used a "air impact wrench" i use for the car lugs and it came off like butter. have to be carefull not to go to gun crazy.lol

[RedNinja21]

I'd say I'm about 70% done. I've changed the front and rear sprockets already.

I'm about to tighten the front sprocket but noticed there's a tube wrapped around it like the pic below. I don't remember how the tube was placed when I took off the sprocket because I was just too excited to have gone that far.

Is the tube supposed to wrap around the sprocket like that? It looks like it might interfere with the chain.
IMAG0167.jpg

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

I'd say I'm about 70% done. I've changed the front and rear sprockets already.

I'm about to tighten the front sprocket but noticed there's a tube wrapped around it like the pic below. I don't remember how the tube was placed when I took off the sprocket because I was just too excited to have gone that far.

Is the tube supposed to wrap around the sprocket like that? It looks like it might interfere with the chain.
Attachment 17662

It's just supposed to dangle straight down from the area near the swingarm, so pull it off and move it back.

Anyway, that looks like a pregen sprocket, which should fit fine but doesn't have *exactly* the same alignment as a JTF1539.15. IIRC, the lettering and logo was on the raised side on my 1539, which should be facing the engine.

Oh: A mobile jump-start battery should work fine if you have one. I installed a lighter socket on my bike a while back, so I don't have to take the seat off (I did anyway).

[RedNinja21]

Okay, so I'll just let the tube dangle and flip the sprocket so the letterings are on the inside.

I got the front sprocket from sprocketcenter and they advertised it as it fits the new gen. It looks like it fits fine.

[RedNinja21]

Actually, there is already one tube running to the back near the swingarm. As in the pic, there's one going toward the rear of the bike and one going to the front where the front sprocket is.
IMAG0167.jpgIMAG0170.jpg

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

Actually, there is already one tube running to the back near the swingarm. As in the pic, there's one going toward the rear of the bike and one going to the front where the front sprocket is.
Attachment 17663Attachment 17664

I believe they are both supposed to hang down. That other one is not supposed to be draped across the swingarm either. I wasn't saying that you had to flip it over because I don't know which side the writing is on on the pregen sprocket. I was saying to make sure that the side with the raised collar around the slotted shaft needs to face the engine and that you should check it if you aren't sure that it is/isn't. The exacts words in the service manual are "Install the engine sprocket onto the shaft the protruding side of it faces in," which should actually be two sentences. Hope that helps!

[k-os]

One of the loose tubes is for coolant overflow. The other is for the gas tank overflow.

[RedNinja21]

And both of them should just dangle? Anywhere I can stick them?

Seems like I hit the wall in everything I do. I can't put brake caliper back onto the disc. The space between the pads looks way too tight for the thickness of the disc. I don't want to force it in and possibly break something.

I saw it in the diy video that the guy just place it onto the caliper, it was so simple. But not for me.

[k-os]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

And both of them should just dangle? Anywhere I can stick them?

Seems like I hit the wall in everything I do. I can't put brake caliper back onto the disc. The space between the pads looks way too tight for the thickness of the disc. I don't want to force it in and possibly break something.

I saw it in the diy video that the guy just place it onto the caliper, it was so simple. But not for me.

Yeah both of the tube should just dangle down behind the kickstand. You'll probably need to push the pistons in to get the pads spread apart enough to fit over the disc. Take the new pads out and push the pistons in with the old pads between them and spread them apart with a large screwdriver or piece of wood.

[CZroe]

Did someone touch the brake while the calipers were off the disc?

Originally Posted by k-os

Yeah both of the tube should just dangle down behind the kickstand. You'll probably need to push the pistons in to get the pads spread apart enough to fit over the disc. Take the new pads out and push the pistons in with the new pads between them and spread them apart with a large screwdriver or piece of wood.

There's a contradiction in there somewhere, and he never said he was changing pads (no "new" or old pads) so let me just clearly say: Do not touch the pads or the pistons with a screwdriver! You can ruin the disc if you mar the pad. It's wise to avoid contaminating them even with the oils on your hands, and not just because oil reduces friction (uneven contamination = uneven wear).

I would remove the pads and squeeze the pistons in with my hands. If you squeeze both together hard enough, they will slowly open. Some people would fold cardboard between the pads to protect them and then insert a screwdriver between the folded cardboard and twist, but that can still damage the pads if you aren't careful.

I just try to give 'em a good wiggle when I take them off and make sure I don't touch the brake levers.

[k-os]

Originally Posted by CZroe

There's a contradiction in there somewhere, and he never said he was changing pads (no "new" or old pads) so let me just clearly say: Do not touch the pads or the pistons with a screwdriver! You can ruin the disc if you mar the pad. It's wise to avoid contaminating them even with the oils on your hands, and not just because oil reduces friction (uneven contamination = uneven wear).

I would remove the pads and squeeze the pistons in with my hands. If you squeeze both together hard enough, they will slowly open.

Yeah I agree completely. I guess I was just assuming that he was changing pads. I mean to say push them in with the old pads.

[Skippii]

Originally Posted by CZroe

In fact, they make sockets out of stiffer materials specifically for impact wrenches because even the flex in the socket can absorb and negate some of the sudden force from an impact wrench.

This isn't right.
Impact sockets are made of SOFTER materials to stop them from shattering and causing injury. Very hard/stiff materials are brittle, which is the last thing you want in an impact (consider that glass is several times harder than steel, yet would not work well in an impact wrench.)

The hardness is not the same thing as a material's strength.

[RedNinja21]

Oh man I'm more confused now.

Sorry with all the questions, but, what are the pistons? If I take the pads off to put the caliper on, how can I put the pads back in?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Skippii

This isn't right.
Impact sockets are made of SOFTER materials to stop them from shattering and causing injury. Very hard/stiff materials are brittle, which is the last thing you want in an impact (consider that glass is several times harder than steel, yet would not work well in an impact wrench.)

The hardness is not the same thing as a material's strength.

Looks like we're both right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_...nd_accessories
The material reduces the spring effect but is softer.

[k-os]

Originally Posted by Skippii

This isn't right.
Impact sockets are made of SOFTER materials to stop them from shattering and causing injury. Very hard/stiff materials are brittle, which is the last thing you want in an impact (consider that glass is several times harder than steel, yet would not work well in an impact wrench.)

The hardness is not the same thing as a material's strength.

Completely agree. I was going to post something about it, but was busy at the time. Hardness and toughness are very different things when talking about any kind of material.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

Oh man I'm more confused now.

Sorry with all the questions, but, what are the pistons? If I take the pads off to put the caliper on, how can I put the pads back in?

The pistons push the pads. You're taking the pads out to open the pistons up before putting the pads back in. The thing is, you don't want to mar the pistons with any hard tools, so it's best to use your hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0evfObrIh8&t=3m5s

(I did not embed because this URL links to a particular moment)

[RedNinja21]

I guess it's the part right outside of the pads and just squeeze as if my life depends on it.

I'll give it a try tomorrow after work. This sprockets and chain change is taking me 2 days now.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

I guess it's the part right outside of the pads and just squeeze as if my life depends on it.

I'll give it a try tomorrow after work. This sprockets and chain change is taking me 2 days now.

Mine has taken a two weeks because I've been doing a ton of other stuff too! Also, see my edit above.

[RedNinja21]

Oh great. I saw his sprocket change video, but not this one. Thanks Jet.

I see where the pistons are. Hopefully, I'll be able to get it done tomorrow night. Thanks alot guys.

[RedNinja21]

Hey guys, I've searched but couldn't find. I'm having a problem with the bolts that hold the brake pads together. Also, the brake caliper bolts as well.

These things don't budge. I'm afraid if I use blunt force, something might go wrong. I tried to spray very little WD40 onto the bolts but doesn't work. I even heat the bolts up a little bit using a heat gun.

Did anybody ever had the same problem? Should I just use blunt force and twist the hell outta those bolts?

[dino74]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

I even heat the bolts up a little bit using a heat gun.

Wouldn't heating the bolts make it harder to remove since heat expands the bolt?

Maybe put the caliper into the freezer then heat up the housing that the bolts screw into... Just an idea.

[RedNinja21]

Yeah I figured that so I just heated it up a little bit, like 3 seconds. I was thinking that if they're too dry and cold, even if it moves, it would strip.

I just kinda wanna try everything before using full force. Oh yeah, I'm sure I'm turning in the right direction, because I'm watching the youtube video (link above) as I'm doing it.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

Hey guys, I've searched but couldn't find. I'm having a problem with the bolts that hold the brake pads together. Also, the brake caliper bolts as well.

These things don't budge. I'm afraid if I use blunt force, something might go wrong. I tried to spray very little WD40 onto the bolts but doesn't work. I even heat the bolts up a little bit using a heat gun.

Did anybody ever had the same problem? Should I just use blunt force and twist the hell outta those bolts?

Mr. Duck basically says to not even try unless the caliper is mounted. I used hex/allen bit sockets on a big T-handle nut driver with 1/2" to 3/8'" drive adapter to get lots of leverage, but you've got an impact wrench now that should make it even less of an issue.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-evolv...p-00910058000P
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece...set-96927.html

[diablos991]

I will be doing mine next week when my 15t comes in the mail. I am nervous about using my 3ft breaker bar on the front sprocket bolt.

Looks like I may have to take a trip to HF.

[alex.s]

Try harder.