Would a harley have gone down?

[n4mwd]

Ok, yesterday I had a near miss. The stupid cager in front of me slams on the brakes about 100 feet before a light when it turned YELLOW. I had to make a quick swerve to the left to avoid hitting him. I went through a yellow light. Then in typical cager fashion, after I had already gone through the intersection, the cager hits the gas and goes through a RED light.

While I think there is reason to believe that he was trying to cause an accident on purpose, my question is actually, would he had been successful had I been riding a Harley?

I ask because one time I actually rode a Harley for about 20 minutes and a modest turn around the corner resulted in something scraping. Plus the fact that it was at least twice the weight of the Ninja. So I'm thinking that if I was on a Harley instead of the Ninja, the same maneuver would have laid the bike down.

What do you guys think?

[Tigerpaw]

Ok

[antiant]

I think you should ride with a camera.

[CC Cowboy]

Harley riders would not have had an accident. Most Harley riders are seasoned riders with enough experience to see a bad situation and adapt to the circumstance. The don't tailgate which leaves room for cages to act like idiots. Harley riders also will drag a cager out of their car and beat the hell out of them for driving dangerously. This detours drivers from attempting to cause an accident.

[Tigerpaw]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Harley riders would not have had an accident. Most Harley riders are seasoned riders with enough experience to see a bad situation and adapt to the circumstance. The don't tailgate which leaves room for cages to act like idiots. Harley riders also will drag a cager out of their car and beat the hell out of them for driving dangerously. This detours drivers from attempting to cause an accident.

Probably the most appropriate reply possible to the OP.

[csmith12]

Lol!

Maybe not, believe it or not... there are some really talented HD riders out there and even a few old timers on gold wings that will spank many fast sport bike riders.

[Tigerpaw]

What about a Honda?

[antiant]

What about a scooter?

[Ducati999]

There are many possible answers to your question of would a Harley have avoided the crash. There are many variables to that equation which could totally change the outcome. I believe the best answer for what I believe is what you are asking is NO. Harleys have a slower steering geometry with lower rake numbers and higher trail which is good for stability but not great for quick turning add to that the lower ground clearance (which you mentioned about dragging parts) and the most likely double curb weight and there is a good chance in the exact same situation a Harley Davidson would not have missed the other vehicle. I must also add that the skill of the rider and several other factors could totally change the outcome I am just going on the very basic info you had given in your post. I would also like to point out that you should not be following someone (car or bike) so close that you have no option but to quicky swerve around them should they suddenly slam on the brakes for a yellow light (or a child, sink hole, dog or what ever). We are luck to ride bikes which are designed for the quickest reaction to direction change and braking but we all much watch out for all possible hazards even ones which may cause another vehicle to become a hazard to us. Ride safe and have fun in that order.

[Ducati999]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Harley riders would not have had an accident. Most Harley riders are seasoned riders with enough experience to see a bad situation and adapt to the circumstance. The don't tailgate which leaves room for cages to act like idiots. Harley riders also will drag a cager out of their car and beat the hell out of them for driving dangerously. This detours drivers from attempting to cause an accident.

CCCowboy this statement is nearly racist except that Harley riders are not a race but made up of many different types of people. I believe you were kidding but I wanted to add that Harley riders are just like all of the members of this forum. Some are new riders, some are experienced riders, some are great people who would help anyone and some would drag you out for your car and whoop your a**. The one thing I love about Harley riders is THAT they ride!

Like I said (based on other posts you have made) I believe you are just kidding but I don't want people judging me because of what I ride and some of them may not want to be judged by their ride. Although I am sure some of them would love to be seen as a tough guy because they ride a Harley

[n4mwd]

You can always spot new riders on any kind of bike because they always wave like a pedestrian rather than a biker. Some even try it with their right hand.

I'm thinking I was probably following a little bit close for sure. I need to stop doing that. I also need to slow down in traffic like that. I'm getting too wild I guess.

Anyhow, my cousin has a Harley clone (yamaha v-star) and we took it up to okeechobee city today. He was complaining that I was going too fast, but I was actually going the same speed as the cars. We rode past J&S fish camp which is a biker bar on the shore of Lake Okeechobee. Plenty of bikers out today. Hundreds there I'd guess. I'm not sure if anyone outside of this area has heard of them.

As far as beating up the cagers that do stupid things, that's only allowed if you ride a cruiser. People on sport bikes get arrested when they do it.

[Ducati999]

This line is why I wrote about being judged! My father is 74 years old and still rides a ninja. I have heard people say the Hoodlem on the Silver ninja and my dad dosent ride more than 5 over the limit! They see the sport bike and helmet and jacket and judge! Just keep your mind open I love to ride and I don't like other peoples actions to affect my sport!

[n4mwd]

A ninja looks like its speeding when its in the parking lot with the engine off. Its just the way things work.

[Tigerpaw]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Anyhow, my cousin has a Harley clone (yamaha v-star) and we took it up to okeechobee city today. He was complaining that I was going too fast, but I was actually going the same speed as the cars. We rode past J&S fish camp which is a biker bar on the shore of Lake Okeechobee. Plenty of bikers out today. Hundreds there I'd guess. I'm not sure if anyone outside of this area has heard of them.

Maybe your cousin was just happy to enjoy the ride...and not concerned about how long it took to get to the destination. Maybe he knew you were likely to have another near-miss. lol

** What do you have against "Harleys"/cruisers? **

[alex.s]

haha wut

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Tigerpaw

** What do you have against "Harleys"/cruisers? **

Hmmmm, well IMHO, they are pokey, ugly, noisy and heavy. Some of those may be irrational, but I just never liked them. The noisy part is the thing about them I hate the most, but in reality, I know that a lot of the noisiest ones are due to owner modifications.

To the point that if I won a contest and they gave me a choice between a $25K Harley or a $3K Honda CBR 250r, I'd take the Honda even though I'm not a big fan of that bike. Of course, if I was rational about it, I would take the Harley, sell it, and buy a Ninja 1000, and an R6.

But back to the original question, even if a Harley could have made the swerve, I don't think it would have been as graceful - i.e. not dragging anything. I mean, it takes energy to make the bike change directions. The more mass, the more force is needed to make it change directions.

[ez12a]

considering the new CHP bikes are HDs, i think they could make it.

for illustration, this is what they require out of their bike (this particular example uses BMW):
http://youtu.be/nBA7iTV3Jiw

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Lol!

Maybe not, believe it or not... there are some really talented HD riders out there and even a few old timers on gold wings that will spank many fast sport bike riders.

had it happen to me, saw an old ass guy (prob mid 70s) on a goldwing while joy riding sometime. He turned off onto a random side street and opened the throttle up. It turned into one hell of a twist road with a few 90 degree corners (back to back if you're going at a good enough pace) with questionable pavement (track like run off area though) If you went down on said road in the first half you wouldn't hit any trees/rocks which is insanely rare for a road as twisty as it is. First corner the goldwing gets his knee down to a few inches off the ground and starts pulling away. By the time I clear the first half he's completely gone never to be seen again.

This was back when my 250 was a fully functional street bike last spring. I've never underestimated an old sport touring rider since. Was a nice humbling experience that I needed at the time hahaha.

As for thread related material: CCcowboy has it down, Harley riders don't tailgate and no one's dumb enough to **** with them except sport bike riders. (hahaha)

[n4mwd]

I know there are super skilled cop riders and also super skilled supersport riders, but I'm thinking average skills in my original post. Would an average skilled Harley rider been able to avoid the cager in the same situation? I'm thinking that if they did, it wouldn't be a clean getaway.

I looked at the video. The last statement that the guy made was something like "If you have a crotch rocket then you aren't going to outrun these guys." I would have to disagree with that since they said their top speed was only 115 mph and most sport bikes (not the 250 unfortunately) can do better than that. You might not actually get away, but you can outrun them for sure.

[Sirref]

Running depends hugely on the situation, You may be able to outrun the individual leo but with their radio they can create a search box for you if they want you enough. From there it's half luck that you don't cross paths with other leos while exiting said search area. The best way to outrun cops IMO is via dual sport offroading after you're out of sight. Even though you won't have top speed on any officer that won't matter as much in the dirt if you're a skilled dirt rider (not to self, become a skilled dirt rider lol)

[ez12a]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I looked at the video. The last statement that the guy made was something like "If you have a crotch rocket then you aren't going to outrun these guys." I would have to disagree with that since they said their top speed was only 115 mph and most sport bikes (not the 250 unfortunately) can do better than that. You might not actually get away, but you can outrun them for sure.

probably in a straight line, yes. But there have been chases in socal with a guy on a 600rr/1000rr, he never outran them.

edit: 1000RR
http://youtu.be/4kAYCZBAVXg

in a chase you'd be hard pressed to sustain top speed all the time anyway.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by ez12a

probably in a straight line, yes. But there have been chases in socal with a guy on a 600rr/1000rr, he never outran them.

edit: 1000RR
http://youtu.be/4kAYCZBAVXg

in a chase you'd be hard pressed to sustain top speed all the time anyway.

There is a better version of that video out there. In the full video the biker sideswiped a car mirror and broke his hand if I remember correctly. That's why he was shaking his hands like that. And it might be a good idea to realize that supersports don't work well in soft dirt.

He didn't look like he had it opened all the way up. He looked like he was doing about 20mph faster than the cars. If he had tried, he could have not only outrun the cops, but also the helicopter. Most have a top speed of about 130-140 mph. A supersport could do 180 mph easy.

There is no telling exactly why he was running in the first place, but the lack of a plate is probably a clue.

[Tigerpaw]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I know there are super skilled cop riders and also super skilled supersport riders, but I'm thinking average skills in my original post. Would an average skilled Harley rider been able to avoid the cager in the same situation? I'm thinking that if they did, it wouldn't be a clean getaway.

I went through BRC-2 last year. People used their own bikes. There were all styles/brands imaginable. The large cruisers had no problem doing the surprise swerve test. These were all average riders.