Best Pre-gen track tire

quarterliter · April 8th, 2013, 08:31 AM

Looking for some opinions on the best option as far as the best tire. I have heard about the pirelli MT75 and sport demon but who else makes a good soft tire for the 16 inch wheel on the pregen?

Kevin

toddblue68 · April 8th, 2013, 08:36 PM

I know guys that race the Sport Demons on their pre-gen ninja in endurance race. They go about a season on a set, but they look pretty ragged by seasons end. The Dunlop GT 501 are well thought of and what is on my '08 250R. I just did a track day Friday on it and had no issues (other than seeping water). They performed as well as my Dunlop Q2 on my Street triple, meaning they didn't squirm, heated up fine, and handled well. These are NOT the OEM tires. No, I'm not a racer, but I dragged my boot and the tire was still stable.

You'll find more answers here: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_ti...fit_the_250%3F

timwu12 · April 9th, 2013, 09:42 AM

Would you say that the Dunlop GT501 offers slightly more grip than the Sport Demons? Or is the difference negligible? I'm trying to justify a $50 difference between them!

Alex · April 9th, 2013, 09:57 AM

I think the Demons are slightly stickier than the 501's; I've run both.

quarterliter · April 9th, 2013, 11:28 AM

I've heard that the mt75s are even more grippy and pretty cheap too. Can anyone confirm that.

choneofakind · April 9th, 2013, 12:30 PM

No idea about MT75's. I've used Pirelli Diablo scooter tires and I like them a lot. They handle nicely at the track, and they get up to temp quickly during street use. They're also available in OEM sizes. Based on my experience and the reviews of Sport Demons, I think they're very similar tires.

Kevin, I thought you said you had no interest in taking your Ninja to the track?

timwu12 · April 9th, 2013, 01:10 PM

If Pirelli offers a diablo tire, wouldn't it be constructed than the sport demon, since the Diablo line is a lot more recent?

quarterliter · April 9th, 2013, 02:33 PM

A good track tire has a lot of grip and gets up to temp quickly. Now I am not racing this bike but those attributes are beneficial on the street too. And racers have more of a clue as far as tires so i thought this is the place to ask questions.

quarterliter · April 9th, 2013, 02:48 PM

Has anyone used the bridge stone bt45? They seem to have more crown than the mt75s so it should steer quicker.

choneofakind · April 9th, 2013, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timwu12

If Pirelli offers a diablo tire, wouldn't it be constructed than the sport demon, since the Diablo line is a lot more recent?

It's a bias ply scooter tire, not a radial like the rest of the diablo line. I have no further ideas about its design, I just know that I like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quarterliter

Has anyone used the bridge stone bt45? They seem to have more crown than the mt75s so it should steer quicker.

I liked those tires a lot. They were a great street tire. They stuck well, they felt great, they did really well in wet conditions, and they fell into turns nicely.

But they wore funny for me.

I think the diablo scooter tire is more neutral than than the BT45 while leaned over. Also, the rear BT45 (the SD is the same size) is taller, wider, and heavier than the Diablo Scoots. The difference on turn in, while not mind boggling, is definitely noticeable in a back to back comparison. The Diablos turn in better and transition quicker.

Personally, the Diablo Scooter tires are the best all around tire I've used. They're cheaper than the BT45's, waaay stickier, and quicker warming than the Dunrocks, and they're quicker to flick than the BT45's. They're also wearing normally. They feel just as good on back roads as they do on the track.

timwu12 · April 9th, 2013, 05:32 PM

so, even with the 90mph speed rating of the diablos, you'd feel comfortable taking it to the track and ripping it up?

choneofakind · April 9th, 2013, 05:36 PM

Yes I feel comfortable, and yes I have gone faster than the speed rating. I maxed at 102 at the back straight of Mid-Ohio last time I was there, and got to about 100 every lap.

The speed rating is found by running the tire consistently at x speed, then after a set amount of time speeding it up to y speed, and so on and so forth until it fails. Unless you plan to run the highways at 95 mph constantly for 8 hours, you'll be fine on a 93 mph speed rating.

Realistically, your 250 is going to top out around 90-100 mph anyways, and you're just going to tap it for a minute or less at a time. Don't worry about being able to go faster than the speed rating by 5 mph. If the speed rating was 60, I'd be buying a different tire.

timwu12 · April 9th, 2013, 05:38 PM

looks like i'll be getting these over the speed demons!

My 250's strictly track only, so I don't care about mileage, I'm just looking for the most amount of grip, available in a 16" wheel, period!

choneofakind · April 9th, 2013, 05:39 PM

I've never used the Sport Demons, so I can't comment on those.

You certainly can't go wrong with either of those tires.

quarterliter · April 9th, 2013, 05:46 PM

For some reason I don't have any confidence in a tire with scooter in the name. But maybe I can put that aside so its basically between the mt75s and diablo scooter....

choneofakind · April 9th, 2013, 05:47 PM

FWIW, I've also read good things on the ninja250 wiki about the MT75's.

Aren't the MT75's a 120/80-16 tire?

Also, note on the Sport Demons and BT45's: those are 130/90-16, so you get a little more ground clearance because they're a taller tire. The speedometer is also more accurate because the circumference of the front tire is a little bigger. Just things to consider.

quarterliter · April 9th, 2013, 06:53 PM

I like the look of the 120 series the 130 just look to darn wide. Almost like tractor tires. And yes they are 80s so they will be lower profile. I wish i could find a 120/90/16 tire..........

choneofakind · April 9th, 2013, 09:35 PM

Well, it's not just the 80 profile. The stock size is 130/80-120. The profile is determined by multiplying 130x0.80. So the profile is actually determined by the width, which makes sense if you consider that motorcycle tires all need to be proportional so that they have the same curve from bead to bead.

toddblue68 · April 9th, 2013, 10:29 PM

I'd go with the Sport demon, then the Dunlop for track only, flipped order if including street duty. Don't know anything about the scooter tire.

Even with these street tires, pressure will make a difference in performance. Too high a pressure and they'll never get to operating temperature, and they will never grip. Too low, and they'll get too hot and get greasy and not last.

Modern bike tires are pretty impressive, even in street trim. However, any of them can let you down when they are "old" and slide cause rubber dries out. Try to buy your tires from a retailer that goes through stock, and check the manufacture date when you get it. I wouldn't use anything older than 3 yrs old on the track, it'll be 4 before a season ends meaning you REALLY would need to replace it then, and 5 y.o. is too old on the street.

April 8th, 2013, 08:31 AM	#1
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	Best Pre-gen track tire Looking for some opinions on the best option as far as the best tire. I have heard about the pirelli MT75 and sport demon but who else makes a good soft tire for the 16 inch wheel on the pregen? Kevin

April 9th, 2013, 09:57 AM	#4
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	I think the Demons are slightly stickier than the 501's; I've run both. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

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April 8th, 2013, 08:36 PM	#2
toddblue68 ninjette.org member Name: Toad Location: USA Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ninja Posts: 31	I know guys that race the Sport Demons on their pre-gen ninja in endurance race. They go about a season on a set, but they look pretty ragged by seasons end. The Dunlop GT 501 are well thought of and what is on my '08 250R. I just did a track day Friday on it and had no issues (other than seeping water). They performed as well as my Dunlop Q2 on my Street triple, meaning they didn't squirm, heated up fine, and handled well. These are NOT the OEM tires. No, I'm not a racer, but I dragged my boot and the tire was still stable. You'll find more answers here: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_ti...fit_the_250%3F

April 9th, 2013, 09:42 AM	#3
timwu12 ninjette.org member Name: Tim Location: Bay Area Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): '89 Ninja 250, Triumph Daytona 675 Posts: 14	Would you say that the Dunlop GT501 offers slightly more grip than the Sport Demons? Or is the difference negligible? I'm trying to justify a $50 difference between them!

April 9th, 2013, 11:28 AM	#5
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	I've heard that the mt75s are even more grippy and pretty cheap too. Can anyone confirm that.

April 9th, 2013, 12:30 PM	#6
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	No idea about MT75's. I've used Pirelli Diablo scooter tires and I like them a lot. They handle nicely at the track, and they get up to temp quickly during street use. They're also available in OEM sizes. Based on my experience and the reviews of Sport Demons, I think they're very similar tires. Kevin, I thought you said you had no interest in taking your Ninja to the track?

April 9th, 2013, 01:10 PM	#7
timwu12 ninjette.org member Name: Tim Location: Bay Area Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): '89 Ninja 250, Triumph Daytona 675 Posts: 14	If Pirelli offers a diablo tire, wouldn't it be constructed than the sport demon, since the Diablo line is a lot more recent?

April 9th, 2013, 02:33 PM	#8
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	A good track tire has a lot of grip and gets up to temp quickly. Now I am not racing this bike but those attributes are beneficial on the street too. And racers have more of a clue as far as tires so i thought this is the place to ask questions.

April 9th, 2013, 02:48 PM	#9
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	Has anyone used the bridge stone bt45? They seem to have more crown than the mt75s so it should steer quicker.

April 9th, 2013, 05:32 PM	#11
timwu12 ninjette.org member Name: Tim Location: Bay Area Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): '89 Ninja 250, Triumph Daytona 675 Posts: 14	so, even with the 90mph speed rating of the diablos, you'd feel comfortable taking it to the track and ripping it up?

April 9th, 2013, 05:36 PM	#12
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Yes I feel comfortable, and yes I have gone faster than the speed rating. I maxed at 102 at the back straight of Mid-Ohio last time I was there, and got to about 100 every lap. The speed rating is found by running the tire consistently at x speed, then after a set amount of time speeding it up to y speed, and so on and so forth until it fails. Unless you plan to run the highways at 95 mph constantly for 8 hours, you'll be fine on a 93 mph speed rating. Realistically, your 250 is going to top out around 90-100 mph anyways, and you're just going to tap it for a minute or less at a time. Don't worry about being able to go faster than the speed rating by 5 mph. If the speed rating was 60, I'd be buying a different tire.

April 9th, 2013, 05:38 PM	#13
timwu12 ninjette.org member Name: Tim Location: Bay Area Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): '89 Ninja 250, Triumph Daytona 675 Posts: 14	looks like i'll be getting these over the speed demons! My 250's strictly track only, so I don't care about mileage, I'm just looking for the most amount of grip, available in a 16" wheel, period!

April 9th, 2013, 05:39 PM	#14
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	I've never used the Sport Demons, so I can't comment on those. You certainly can't go wrong with either of those tires.

April 9th, 2013, 05:46 PM	#15
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	For some reason I don't have any confidence in a tire with scooter in the name. But maybe I can put that aside so its basically between the mt75s and diablo scooter....

April 9th, 2013, 05:47 PM	#16
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	FWIW, I've also read good things on the ninja250 wiki about the MT75's. Aren't the MT75's a 120/80-16 tire? Also, note on the Sport Demons and BT45's: those are 130/90-16, so you get a little more ground clearance because they're a taller tire. The speedometer is also more accurate because the circumference of the front tire is a little bigger. Just things to consider.

April 9th, 2013, 06:53 PM	#17
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	I like the look of the 120 series the 130 just look to darn wide. Almost like tractor tires. And yes they are 80s so they will be lower profile. I wish i could find a 120/90/16 tire..........

April 9th, 2013, 09:35 PM	#18
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Well, it's not just the 80 profile. The stock size is 130/80-120. The profile is determined by multiplying 130x0.80. So the profile is actually determined by the width, which makes sense if you consider that motorcycle tires all need to be proportional so that they have the same curve from bead to bead.

April 9th, 2013, 10:29 PM	#19
toddblue68 ninjette.org member Name: Toad Location: USA Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ninja Posts: 31	I'd go with the Sport demon, then the Dunlop for track only, flipped order if including street duty. Don't know anything about the scooter tire. Even with these street tires, pressure will make a difference in performance. Too high a pressure and they'll never get to operating temperature, and they will never grip. Too low, and they'll get too hot and get greasy and not last. Modern bike tires are pretty impressive, even in street trim. However, any of them can let you down when they are "old" and slide cause rubber dries out. Try to buy your tires from a retailer that goes through stock, and check the manufacture date when you get it. I wouldn't use anything older than 3 yrs old on the track, it'll be 4 before a season ends meaning you REALLY would need to replace it then, and 5 y.o. is too old on the street.