How Many Can Pull A Tight U-Turn?

Purspeed · February 14th, 2009, 04:52 PM

...on your bike?

kkim · February 14th, 2009, 04:54 PM

how tight? "the box" at MSF?

CRXTrek · February 14th, 2009, 04:57 PM

Not so much with gloves and my sv clp-ons, unless with a little rear brake

Purspeed · February 14th, 2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

how tight? "the box" at MSF?

I'm not sure how tight "the box" would be, so I wrote in the 18 and 24 foot diameters for reference.

Lane width is roughly 12ft, so it's like going from the outside of the lane (when pulling a U-turn) to the outside of the number 1 lane upon exiting the U-turn (for the 24ft diameter).

Alex · February 14th, 2009, 05:54 PM

I can do full-lock turns pretty easily on the ninjette. It's a little more challenging on the RT, and it's quite challenging on the 10R. Some of the differences are due to weight, but steering geometry plays a big part as well. Some people recommend using the rear brake to control the bike during these, but personally I don't use that technique and typically stay off the brakes altogether.

kkim · February 14th, 2009, 05:57 PM

I always use the rear brake to balance the slipping clutch.

Purspeed · February 14th, 2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

I always use the rear brake to balance the slipping clutch.

I keep the bike in the "friction zone" by modulating the rear brake and keeping the RPM's around twice idle.

By using the rear brake, the bike behaves like it would if it were going much faster. So, you can pull much tighter turns.

It's a California Highway Patrol trick (along with "the dip")

CRXTrek · February 14th, 2009, 06:17 PM

Link to original page on YouTube.

g21-30 · February 14th, 2009, 07:36 PM

Link to original page on YouTube.

OldGuy · February 14th, 2009, 07:47 PM

The MSF Box is 20 x 60. Did it, did it practicing on the '01 250, need some clean parking lots to try it on the new one (and a big inflatable mattress just in case)

http://www.msf-usa.org/MSTS/PDFs/BRC...nge_Layout.pdf

TnNinjaGirl · February 14th, 2009, 07:52 PM

I usually just do a stoppie and turn it around on a dime. That wasn't an option though, and I'm sure not everyone has that mad of skillz. Pity...

Nemy · February 14th, 2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

I always use the rear brake to balance the slipping clutch.

ditto. No problems with the old-gen. Haven't done a uey on a new-gen yet though...

kkim · February 14th, 2009, 08:27 PM

most bikes are basically the same. it's all about getting used to where the friction zone is for each individual bike. slight adjustments with the clutch lever adjuster really helps to what you are used to when going from bike to bike.

NJD022588 · February 14th, 2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TnNinjaGirl

I usually just do a stoppie and turn it around on a dime. That wasn't an option though, and I'm sure not everyone has that mad of skillz. Pity...

lol i was wondering why that wasnt an option

I havent measured my u-turns, but i know i've gotten much better as time has gone by. I can almost do a full-lock turn but am always ready to put down a foot if needed.

00v_Lucky · February 14th, 2009, 08:46 PM

you guys have it all wrong, downshift from 6 all the way to 1st as fast as you can, burnout 'till about 180 degrees =]

darkknight49 · February 14th, 2009, 08:50 PM

I just started riding about a month ago and I was horrible at U turns on that Elim 125 at the MSF course. On the Ninja tho, it's really easy. I can get it within 20 ft no prob.

Sound Wave · February 14th, 2009, 10:17 PM

that is the only thing i failed in the msf course. i have gotten better, but i still think i would fail the MSF box. i have watched a few how-to videos without success.

as far as what my turning diameter is now? i don't know.

ninjabrewer · February 15th, 2009, 12:43 AM

To get on the onpost cert. we had to do the MSF riding test on our own bike. After I had practiced it for 45 minutes, and figured out (remembered?) the friction zone and ride it in 2nd gear, it wasn't difficult, esp after I remembered (reminded) to look at the far corner and the bike will go in that direction.

The riders with bigger bikes got to use a bigger box, mine was the small one.
Not sure what the size was, someone said 20.

nb

kkim · February 15th, 2009, 12:44 AM

why 2nd gear?

ninjabrewer · February 15th, 2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

why 2nd gear?

At the time, and I still am rough, I didn't have very good throttle control and for me it was easier to ride it 2nd. In 1st, I was surging all over the place.

nb

kkim · February 15th, 2009, 01:07 AM

surging or driveline snatch? in first, try holding the revs steady between 2-3k, drag the rear brake while letting out the clutch to the friction point to control the forward speed of the bike. more/less pressure of the rear brake controls your speed. on dirt bikes you can come to an almost complete stop while doing this while not putting your feet down. works out great for street bikes to let the bike go slower than first gear allows otherwise.

the steady throttle position takes care of the surging and dragging the brake takes out the driveline snatch.

also, to help cure the surging, shim your needles for smoother throttle control at the lower revs.

g21-30 · February 15th, 2009, 09:14 AM

The "Alternate MOST", which 29 states use for the vehicle skills test, has a "Box" width of 24' for 500 cc and above and 20' for under 500 cc. In the MSF class, practice is with the 24' box, while the final skills test is with a 20' box.

If you wish to practice the U-Turn, go to a large (empty) commercial parking lot. The standard parking space is 8 1/2' wide, so 3 spaces is 25 1/2', while 2 spaces is 17'. Every few weeks, I practice in an empty lot and have gotten to where I can do the U-turn in 17' (2 spaces). You must force yourself to look way behind in the direction you wish to turn.

The Capt Crash U-turn video covers all the above. Good Luck

noche_caliente · February 15th, 2009, 01:37 PM

Don, if you're really worried about her when you practice it, you can always do it street-fighter style with the plastics off...

aloh · February 16th, 2009, 12:47 AM

Those tight u-turns are tricky. Half the time i could make the Uturn in the box just fine, but sometimes i would be about 3-6 inches out from it.

The absolute BEST advice i could give is to TURN YOUR HEAD!!! This helped me alot.

talldrink · February 16th, 2009, 11:00 AM

+1 to darkknight49 & ninjabrewer

Angel-be-Good · February 16th, 2009, 07:04 PM

Not sure how tight I'm capable of turning, but I pull u-turns every day in my parking garage so I can swing the bike around and park it behind my car. I'd guess it's about 25 feet wide between parking stalls?

OldGuy · February 16th, 2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

Don, if you're really worried about her when you practice it, you can always do it street-fighter style with the plastics off...

I like that idea - I'll bet that would look wicked to - hmmmmm

kkim · February 16th, 2009, 07:45 PM

if you think plastics are expensive, consider the cost of a new tank or engine case parts.

best way... don't drop the bike!!!

running around naked does have its disadvantages... wait, that didn't sound right!!!

NJD022588 · February 16th, 2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

running around naked does have its disadvantages

Nonsense!

kkim · February 16th, 2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJD022588

Nonsense!

... and who advised you of that??? your lawyer or your probation officer?

TheDuck · February 23rd, 2009, 06:20 PM

I can turn my raked out chopper around in a residental back street just barely. The little 250 I can turn around in a parking spot, lol. Lean that little thing WAAAAAAAAAY over but keep your body straight up!

g21-30 · March 20th, 2009, 04:40 AM

Link to original page on YouTube.

Joey250rider · September 5th, 2009, 02:50 AM

dude i have an 02 ninja and i can pull a u'y without going outside of a lane its not to hard to push these little guys around in a circle

tylernt · September 5th, 2009, 07:59 AM

Practice U-turns both ways! I got good at doing them to the left, full lock even. Then the Idaho skills test administrator had everyone do them to the RIGHT that day. Let's just say... I failed that part (still passed overall, though).

andrewexd · September 5th, 2009, 12:17 PM

I can do it but I cant fully flat foot so I go wider than necessary.

edwinmcq · September 5th, 2009, 01:53 PM

I found three things that really helped:

1) Using 2nd gear
2) Using Rear brake
3) Balancing on balls of feet (I think I read that in Keith Code's book and it really works)

Also, watch the "Ride like a Pro Videos" and doing the exercises, living in downtown DC and parking in a very tight underground fallout shelter converted to garage.

Sailariel · September 5th, 2009, 05:51 PM

20 Feet is no problem. Just finished the advanced course--a real good time. Had the smallest bike there but was told it was the snappiest on the course. There was no doubt in anybody`s mind that the Ninjette really handles. I let the instructor ride the bike and he definitely raised some eyebrows. Bigger is not always better. He plans to buy a Ninjette after that ride. Told him he should definitely join our family. He could give us some good insight.

Nickds7 · September 5th, 2009, 07:13 PM

I can now do it in <18ft. I failed the msf u-turn box (but not the class!). I used to be scared of getting it down. This morning I scraped a foot going 25 maybe..

I still feel somewhat uncomfortable doing a tight u-turn with a passenger, unless it is with my 105 pound asian "friend"

Snake · November 17th, 2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickds7

I can now do it in <18ft. I failed the msf u-turn box (but not the class!). I used to be scared of getting it down. This morning I scraped a foot going 25 maybe..

I still feel somewhat uncomfortable doing a tight u-turn with a passenger, unless it is with my 105 pound asian "friend"

As I don't ever ride 2up I don't know if I have the same skills with a passenger on board

LawlessLogic · December 29th, 2011, 01:11 PM

What are some opinions on counter-leaning in the U-turn? I've noticed that as I initiate the turn, it feels more under control when I counter lean; but when I execute the full maneuver, I shift from leaning outside to inside of it, coming back upright as I make my exit.

View Poll Results: Do you have mAd U-tuRn SkiLLz?
I can easily pull a U-turn in under an 18 foot diameter	131	55.04%
I can pull a U-turn in under 24 feet dia.	59	24.79%
I am not that comfortable doing U-turns, but will do so if necessary	44	18.49%
I have no pride and am willing to admit that I cannot U-turn on a bike...	4	1.68%
Voters: 238. You may not vote on this poll

February 14th, 2009, 04:52 PM	#1
Purspeed ninjette.org guru Name: Purspeed Location: Los Angeles, CA Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 469	How Many Can Pull A Tight U-Turn? ...on your bike? __________________________________________________ "This is my Ninja. There are many like it, but this one is mine..." ~ Purspeed (ca. Nov, 2008)

February 14th, 2009, 05:54 PM	#5
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	I can do full-lock turns pretty easily on the ninjette. It's a little more challenging on the RT, and it's quite challenging on the 10R. Some of the differences are due to weight, but steering geometry plays a big part as well. Some people recommend using the rear brake to control the bike during these, but personally I don't use that technique and typically stay off the brakes altogether. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

February 14th, 2009, 07:36 PM	#9
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	CaptCrash Link to original page on YouTube.

February 14th, 2009, 07:47 PM	#10
OldGuy Live Life Name: Don Location: Lincoln, NE Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Green SE Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.	The MSF Box is 20 x 60. Did it, did it practicing on the '01 250, need some clean parking lots to try it on the new one (and a big inflatable mattress just in case) http://www.msf-usa.org/MSTS/PDFs/BRC...nge_Layout.pdf __________________________________________________ - ATGATT - Scorpion EX700 Hi-Vis Helmet, First Gear MeshTek 3.0 Jacket, TourMaster Transition 2 Jacket and Flex Pants, Sidi Doha boots

February 14th, 2009, 04:54 PM	#2
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	how tight? "the box" at MSF?

February 14th, 2009, 04:57 PM	#3
CRXTrek FORMER MOTORCYCLE RIDER Name: Steve Location: On a Trek SU200 or in my CRX Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Rode an 08 250r then rode an 08 ZX-6R until i totaled it on 7/10/10 Posts: 758	Not so much with gloves and my sv clp-ons, unless with a little rear brake

February 14th, 2009, 05:57 PM	#6
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	I always use the rear brake to balance the slipping clutch.

February 14th, 2009, 06:17 PM	#8
CRXTrek FORMER MOTORCYCLE RIDER Name: Steve Location: On a Trek SU200 or in my CRX Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Rode an 08 250r then rode an 08 ZX-6R until i totaled it on 7/10/10 Posts: 758	Link to original page on YouTube.

February 14th, 2009, 07:52 PM	#11
TnNinjaGirl Ms. Personality Name: CB Location: Murvill, TN Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.	I usually just do a stoppie and turn it around on a dime. That wasn't an option though, and I'm sure not everyone has that mad of skillz. Pity...

February 14th, 2009, 08:27 PM	#13
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	most bikes are basically the same. it's all about getting used to where the friction zone is for each individual bike. slight adjustments with the clutch lever adjuster really helps to what you are used to when going from bike to bike.

February 14th, 2009, 08:46 PM	#15
00v_Lucky ninjette.org sage Name: Howard Location: Cypress, So. Cal. Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Candy Thunder Blue Ninja 250R Posts: 618	you guys have it all wrong, downshift from 6 all the way to 1st as fast as you can, burnout 'till about 180 degrees =]

February 14th, 2009, 08:50 PM	#16
darkknight49 ninjette.org member Name: Faiyaz Location: Davis, Ca Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 70	I just started riding about a month ago and I was horrible at U turns on that Elim 125 at the MSF course. On the Ninja tho, it's really easy. I can get it within 20 ft no prob. __________________________________________________ 2008 Ninja 250 - Yoshi Exhaust, Brake Light Modulator, HID Kit To Come: Sliders, Fender Elim, Flush Mounts, Hugger (much later...no $ )

February 14th, 2009, 10:17 PM	#17
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	that is the only thing i failed in the msf course. i have gotten better, but i still think i would fail the MSF box. i have watched a few how-to videos without success. as far as what my turning diameter is now? i don't know.

February 15th, 2009, 12:43 AM	#18
ninjabrewer dirty old man Name: Chris Location: Hazel Green, AL Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Blue '08 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	To get on the onpost cert. we had to do the MSF riding test on our own bike. After I had practiced it for 45 minutes, and figured out (remembered?) the friction zone and ride it in 2nd gear, it wasn't difficult, esp after I remembered (reminded) to look at the far corner and the bike will go in that direction. The riders with bigger bikes got to use a bigger box, mine was the small one. Not sure what the size was, someone said 20. nb __________________________________________________ Death tugs at my ear and says, "Live, I am coming." -Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., poet, novelist, essayist, and physician (1809-1894) www.friendsofsanonofre.org

February 15th, 2009, 12:44 AM	#19
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	why 2nd gear?

February 15th, 2009, 01:07 AM	#21
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	surging or driveline snatch? in first, try holding the revs steady between 2-3k, drag the rear brake while letting out the clutch to the friction point to control the forward speed of the bike. more/less pressure of the rear brake controls your speed. on dirt bikes you can come to an almost complete stop while doing this while not putting your feet down. works out great for street bikes to let the bike go slower than first gear allows otherwise. the steady throttle position takes care of the surging and dragging the brake takes out the driveline snatch. also, to help cure the surging, shim your needles for smoother throttle control at the lower revs.

February 15th, 2009, 09:14 AM	#22
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	Size of the Box The "Alternate MOST", which 29 states use for the vehicle skills test, has a "Box" width of 24' for 500 cc and above and 20' for under 500 cc. In the MSF class, practice is with the 24' box, while the final skills test is with a 20' box. If you wish to practice the U-Turn, go to a large (empty) commercial parking lot. The standard parking space is 8 1/2' wide, so 3 spaces is 25 1/2', while 2 spaces is 17'. Every few weeks, I practice in an empty lot and have gotten to where I can do the U-turn in 17' (2 spaces). You must force yourself to look way behind in the direction you wish to turn. The Capt Crash U-turn video covers all the above. Good Luck

February 15th, 2009, 01:37 PM	#23
noche_caliente ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Kim Location: mundo de ensueño Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250 Posts: A lot.	Don, if you're really worried about her when you practice it, you can always do it street-fighter style with the plastics off...

February 16th, 2009, 12:47 AM	#24
aloh lolwut Name: Alex Location: socal Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 196	Those tight u-turns are tricky. Half the time i could make the Uturn in the box just fine, but sometimes i would be about 3-6 inches out from it. The absolute BEST advice i could give is to TURN YOUR HEAD!!! This helped me alot. __________________________________________________ 08 Blue Ninja 250R

February 16th, 2009, 11:00 AM	#25
talldrink ninjette.org guru Name: Deb Location: Philly Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '09 ninja 250 (blue) Posts: 295	+1 to darkknight49 & ninjabrewer __________________________________________________ A woman is like a teabag; you never know how strong she is until she's in hot water!

February 16th, 2009, 07:45 PM	#28
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	if you think plastics are expensive, consider the cost of a new tank or engine case parts. best way... don't drop the bike!!! running around naked does have its disadvantages... wait, that didn't sound right!!!

February 23rd, 2009, 06:20 PM	#31
TheDuck Da Duckman Name: Duckman Location: Pensacola, FL Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, '06 Chopper, '80 Puch Magnum II, '01 SV650, '99 CR250/CR500AF Sportbike. '02 CRF450/CR500AF Dirt Posts: 480	I can turn my raked out chopper around in a residental back street just barely. The little 250 I can turn around in a parking spot, lol. Lean that little thing WAAAAAAAAAY over but keep your body straight up!

March 20th, 2009, 04:40 AM	#32
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	U-Turn Practice - Figure 8s - 17'X34' Link to original page on YouTube.

September 5th, 2009, 02:50 AM	#33
Joey250rider ninjette.org newbie Name: Joey Location: Scottsdale, AZ Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2002 Ninja 250r modded=), 2005 R6, 2003 cbr600 Posts: 7	dude i have an 02 ninja and i can pull a u'y without going outside of a lane its not to hard to push these little guys around in a circle

September 5th, 2009, 07:59 AM	#34
tylernt Special Member Name: Tyler Location: Idaho Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 Ninja 500, '81 Yamaha XS400 Posts: 16	Practice U-turns both ways! I got good at doing them to the left, full lock even. Then the Idaho skills test administrator had everyone do them to the RIGHT that day. Let's just say... I failed that part (still passed overall, though).

September 5th, 2009, 12:17 PM	#35
andrewexd ninjette.org guru Name: Andrew Location: LA Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 07 GSXR600 (N250 sold :( ) Posts: 415	I can do it but I cant fully flat foot so I go wider than necessary.

September 5th, 2009, 01:53 PM	#36
edwinmcq ninjette.org member Name: Ed Location: Washington DC Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 157	I found three things that really helped: 1) Using 2nd gear 2) Using Rear brake 3) Balancing on balls of feet (I think I read that in Keith Code's book and it really works) Also, watch the "Ride like a Pro Videos" and doing the exercises, living in downtown DC and parking in a very tight underground fallout shelter converted to garage. __________________________________________________ www.edmcqueen.com

September 5th, 2009, 05:51 PM	#37
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	20 Feet is no problem. Just finished the advanced course--a real good time. Had the smallest bike there but was told it was the snappiest on the course. There was no doubt in anybody`s mind that the Ninjette really handles. I let the instructor ride the bike and he definitely raised some eyebrows. Bigger is not always better. He plans to buy a Ninjette after that ride. Told him he should definitely join our family. He could give us some good insight.

September 5th, 2009, 07:13 PM	#38
Nickds7 ninjette.org guru Name: Nick Location: Sacramento, California. Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 379	I can now do it in <18ft. I failed the msf u-turn box (but not the class!). I used to be scared of getting it down. This morning I scraped a foot going 25 maybe.. I still feel somewhat uncomfortable doing a tight u-turn with a passenger, unless it is with my 105 pound asian "friend"

December 29th, 2011, 01:11 PM	#40
LawlessLogic ninjette.org newbie Name: Quinton Location: Las Vegas Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r Posts: 4	What are some opinions on counter-leaning in the U-turn? I've noticed that as I initiate the turn, it feels more under control when I counter lean; but when I execute the full maneuver, I shift from leaning outside to inside of it, coming back upright as I make my exit.

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