Stunt Gearing

[ninja250]

I'm trying to decide what gearing to purchase for attempting stunts on my Ninja 250R.

I ran across the Reza SS guy saying this..
[IMG][/IMG]

But I have heard that using the 13T front is tougher on the chain. So much so that it's noticeable loud I read?!

I also notice I can achieve the same ratios keeping the front sprocket stock and using a larger rear sprocket.



Stock is yellow. 14/45
Red is Reza SS gearing for his videos 13/47
I'm thinking of just using the 14/52 which would bring me to the orange
What I was planning before is in purple. 14/54

What would you guys do?
I think I want to stay with the 14T for more chain life but just use a giant sprocket? But why wouldn't Reza SS have done it this way? Just wondering..
Would love to hear any input anyone would have. I'm not shy to just buy a fat sprocket and throw it on but thought I'd look for opinions first, too. If I had to guess my common sense would tell me to go with the orange which is a hair slower/more torque than Reza SS used just to be on the safe side.

[Kevin2109]

You should be stunting it so bad for your bike, stupid squid

lol JK I have nothing good to add, just couldnt resist

[Alex]

I wouldn't factor chain life into the decision. The slight difference (if any) between wear of a 13-tooth and 14-tooth front, is much less than the wear of the chain due to usage. Repeated wheelies (which is the point of all of this gearing) is going to cause much faster wear on the chain as a matter of course anyway. I think going down 2 in front and up 3 or 4 in back is convenient because you can then likely stick with a standard length chain that you might already have. If you only go really large in back, you're committing to having to buy a new chain up front.

[ninja250]

That's my thought exactly..
Somebody said it makes a nice whine but then I thought well I'm gonna be stretching the chain out like crazy.

Hmph. I guess less links is less to go wrong also?

I found Sprocket Cneter online and it seems they do chain/sprocket/sprocket/ kits between $128-$190 for our Ninja. I think I then just need to find a spacer Kkim was talking about. I found the part number in another old Kawiforum thread. I'll dig it up once I get the gears.

Now I just need to decide if I'm gonna copy Reza on his gearing or go a bit lighter since it looks like he's pretty good at it and I definitely need lots of practice at first.

Perhaps I will go 13/48

[ninja250]

OK after ordering all those gauge parts all I could afford is the front sprocket.
lol


I'm gonna order a nice Bright Red anodized Driven 48T sprocket and a new chain when I get a chance. After 10,000mi and lots of scrubbing, I'm inevitably starting to get some rust spots on the stock chain. Better just replace it ASAP.
I don't want any signs of rust on my wheelie chains.

I have seen what happens when you break a chain.
You put a hole in the crank case! (If you are lucky!)

So $65 more for the sprocket and a DID 520 chain later I will be rocking.

Yesterday I was out doing wheelies on the stock gearing again..
Once you learn to have the balls to clutch it way up very fast, There actually is still a tiny bit of power left in the stock ninja and gearing to keep you at balance point, but not very much and you are already going pretty fast by this point.

I think the trick is to give it tons of gas and slam it to balance point hard, then you can back off the RPM quite a bit once you get it there and just focus on balancing.

I had sit downs yesterday at balance point until the end of the gear. I'm getting to the point where I need to start shifting into second on the stock gearing during the wheelie. I was able to balance left and right ways also for the first time which was very cool! Gaining lots of progress very fast now that I go out and do some practice every other day. My stand ups yesterday were awesome too! Better every time.

I'm gonna leave the camera at home from now on until I look like a pro doing the stunts..
Otherwise all the youtube people whine and cry if you aren't pro right away. lol
I'm getting a ton better very fast right now though. Pretty fun.

The feeling of clutching up a stand up wheelie is a great one. =)

[rusninja]

i cant wait to see some videos XD

[ninja250]

I'd love to post them and it's not actually like I'm doing too bad while I learn.
I can BP the ninja sitting and can definitely BP it while standing but it's a bit creepy since I'm new. People get angry at my videos when I don't do pro stunts lol. Then their comments sits there and goes through my head while I'm riding and will cause me to crash and push myself and I don't want to do either.

I'll post more videos when I can do something worth watching I guess.
All the youtube video warriors have many more videos better than mine to watch of people doing stunts. I'm just learning a few different wheelies. =)

Just taking my sweet time.
I gotta go find a new stunt spot too, the cops kicked me out of the airport yesterday and I'm already sick of going to palm springs to do stunts in 110*.
Now I'm hiding down some empty streets in the neighborhood just before dusk when it's cooler.
There's no good big industrial spots in this town for me to stunt at.

I'm really getting a good feel for how to clutch up and how much juice to use now.
The speed at which your clutch fingers operate is crucial. Other than that..
You basically have to use just about all the ninja's juice to clutch it up to BP really fast then back off and try to balance it out with what throttle you do have left. The new gearing should be a godsend.

[jonnyc]

thats awesome. I have done a few wheelies on my little ninja, even got a vid taken from my phone. Just did it to see how high my wheel was, HOLY $#!T i was surprised how high I got it for a noob. You are right, I would do them going like 10-15mph then grab the clutch and then rev it to 10-11Krpm and release clutch. its actually real sketchy when you go past 10oclock for the first few times. a couple of times I felt like I was going to go backwards.
Do you have a stunting cage?

I had to stop because I am way to new to riding to be doing that, plus someone I knew passed away doing a wheelie around the same time (no gear, just helmet).

[rusninja]

i wanted to see the videos when you change the sprockets ;p

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by jonnyc

Do you have a stunting cage?

I had to stop because I am way to new to riding to be doing that, plus someone I knew passed away doing a wheelie around the same time (no gear, just helmet).

No stunting cage, but I did make a wheelie bar attached to the rear of the frame and I do have Shogun frame sliders. It has light protection. Also, the slower gearing will help me be able to just jump down to the ground and stabilize the bike before it falls over or I crash.. in a perfect world. But you're gonna crash doing tricks on any two wheel device. I'm fully geared at all times.

I found a website that shows how they do the tricks and how to crash the right way while doing them. They want $20 for a year of access to the site.
I figure I can just youtube all the info free.

I understand how to do the wheelies. Just have to take it slow. When I want I can put it all the way up on the stock gears easy but I'd rather stay on the safe side and wait for that slower gearing..

It definitely does feel weird going past 10 right now.. I'm still learning to keep balance left and right too. I've been playing a bit farther back on the wheel after putting the wheelie bar on. hehe

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by rusninja

i wanted to see the videos when you change the sprockets ;p

Once I get the feel of the bike with the new gearing I will likely post something.
It's gonna have all kinds of low end power all the sudden and feel like a GSXR. lol
I'll have to relearn how to wheelie it.

Thank goodness the ninja has a deadened throttle response and I never did the ziptie mod. It should almost be "comfy" to wheelie it easy and slow like that.

Wheelies already got much easier on stock gearing when I tightened up the rear suspension spring. Using low PSI in the rear tire.

[Peanut_EOD]

Squid.

[ninja250]

Track Rat.

[Havok]

My guess on the gearing and it's just a guess is using a front and back combination might make the torque smoother as opposed to just going with a huge back sprocket. Not sure if it's right or not

[ninja250]

Well dang that was quick. Sprocket Center had the pinion to me in a matter of two business days..
Would definitely recommend them again!!! Just hoping it's the right part.
Half way there.

[rusninja]

hurry and report! :P

[ninja250]

Need more parts first. Gonna be a short while.

[Peanut_EOD]

Originally Posted by ninja250

Track Rat.

I hadn't noticed this. I laughed. Thank you.

[ninja250]

Here let me sweep that for you first..

[Peanut_EOD]

Stock gearing.

[Skippii]

I don't stunt at all, but I run 14/48T sprockets just to dodge traffic while commuting.

Anyway, there is a benefit to smaller sprockets rather than larger ones, and that's weight savings. A 52T steel sprocket is heavy. The extra two or 4 links in your chain are heavy.

Okay, heavy isn't really the right word, since that implies weight, and we're only concerned with mass here. Put your bike on a scale, and you won't notice the difference. Try stopping or turning those parts against their inertial/gyroscopical force on a bike moving at 100mph, and yeah...there's a big difference.

Stunting is done at low speeds, so this doesn't matter, but when racing, keeping the chain short and the unsprung rotatingl mass low is critical. So, there are advantages, but not for you.

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by Peanut_EOD

Stock gearing.

Dude I can flip this bike over on the stock gearing no problem.

Stock gearing is hardly optimal for stunting however.

[ninja250]

I can "Get it up" just fine stock without any Viagra.
Keeping it there for an extended period is not as easy on the stock.
Stunt gearing will give you the power to keep it there all day easily.
Also, stunt gearing isn't half as hard on the engine if you don't have to rev it so high and easier torque.
It just so happens I don't ride with anyone to take my pictures most of the time but here was that one footed wheelie when I almost flipped it. lol

You can get it up stock, it's just way more optimal on stunt gearing.
Stock on Palomar day


PS my rear sprocket is in the mail..

[ninja250]

I want to try and learn to figure eight wheelie eventually.
I think I can do it with enough practice a year from now or something.
I bent my bike up, might as well learn stunts on it the right way. I'm always out doing wheelies on the normal gearing in the desert alone anyways and always wanted a stunter. Here it is.
This will make it so I can do them outside my house or in the driveway without disturbing the neighbors.

I think it's a better choice than me being out on the street doing them at full speed dodging the cops.

My little gear indicator gauge will help if I use the stunt gearing to go down to the liquor store. haha
"You still in first idiot?! No that's fourth gear wth!"

[ninja250]

Kneedraggers comes through as a good middle man for no cost shipping from Driven Racing factory on my red 48T sprocket. It showed up in 48 hours..
Just need a nice D.I.D. and I can slap it together to see what happens.
Another week or two.

you just KNOW those stickers gonna add 15 hp..

[rusninja]

very nice looking :P just stay away from the stickers XD

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by Skippii

I don't stunt at all, but I run 14/48T sprockets just to dodge traffic while commuting.

What's your no BS top speed down to with the 48T sprocket?

[ninja250]

Well seems I coulda went a bit bigger than 48. lol
I put the 13/48 on today with a RK X-ring 520/120 chain and the bike feels like a ninja 350 now. I was also able to get it up to 85mph. Maybe coulda gone more to limiter but it was revving through the roof. The gear ratio change did decrease the top speed, but not by much. 15-20mph max.
I can still freeway the bike fine and lane changes have become a breeze!

The bike shoulda been built this way to begin with. lol

I was able to wheelie to balance point by revving to about half of normal though, which was pretty nice!

Did some of the best wheelies of my life today.

I definitely rode out some sit down wheelies at balance point for a bit. I was using throttle to balance and yanking left and right ont he bars to keep the bike pointed straight while riding the wheelies. It was sick!

Did a couple stand up also and had the bike at 12oclock!

Getting lots better at it. The Ninja 250 should have come with 13/48 to begin with. I can go 85 just fine. If it's plenty for socal I'm sure it's plenty for the rest of the world. Hell I can get to 85mph super fast too!
I dig it.

I'll try and make a new ninja 250 stunt video once I get a bit more used to it.

Also spent $190 after tax total on some new thick Icon stunt gloves with titanium knuckles for if I hit the pavement.


Here's some proof pudding. I still say I should have grabbed a larger sprocket... I guess I'll start saving for a new chain/sprocket/sprocket combo lol.

[ninja250]

I want to go 13/54 next time. To be honest it could use a 13/60.
That should do it.

If you bang it up to balance point with the 13/48 immediately you still have plenty of time and power to balance out. I think it will do clutch wheelies in second gear like this also.
If in first and you instant balance point, you end up only going about 10-15mph instead of 25mph on the stock gearing if you instant bp. IMO still a hair too quick for my liking.

I was able to do burnouts too. Still think I could go a bit larger in back and like it for a real dedicated stuntbike.

Right now it feels like a Ninja 350 but only gets to 85mph and clutch up on a dime.
you can actually slip the clutch to wheelie like this instead of having to hard drop it how it was stock. It's a bit smoother and more predictable. Less demanding.

I felt pretty good sitting all the way back in the seat and slipping some clutch and putting the bike straight up. I had enough one wheel time today to start learning balancing and throttle juggling. I'm definitely at balance point with the sit downs.

I think I may have been rather close to touching the wheelie bar too.

[ducducgooseit]

Plus the sprocket matches your bike color.

[ninja250]

lol this guy.

I shoulda got the blue one to really throw you guys off.
Note to self for next time.

Hey I wanted to pay $150 for the gold DID x-ring too but they didn't have them at the "LBS"
Thank goodness they brought me back down to earth.

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by ninja250

Well seems I coulda went a bit bigger than 48. lol
I put the 13/48 on today with a RK X-ring 520/120 chain and the bike feels like a ninja 350 now. I was also able to get it up to 85mph. Maybe coulda gone more to limiter but it was revving through the roof. The gear ratio change did decrease the top speed, but not by much. 15-20mph max.
I can still freeway the bike fine and lane changes have become a breeze!

The bike shoulda been built this way to begin with. lol

I was able to wheelie to balance point by revving to about half of normal though, which was pretty nice!

Did some of the best wheelies of my life today.

I definitely rode out some sit down wheelies at balance point for a bit. I was using throttle to balance and yanking left and right ont he bars to keep the bike pointed straight while riding the wheelies. It was sick!

Did a couple stand up also and had the bike at 12oclock!

Getting lots better at it. The Ninja 250 should have come with 13/48 to begin with. I can go 85 just fine. If it's plenty for socal I'm sure it's plenty for the rest of the world. Hell I can get to 85mph super fast too!
I dig it.

I'll try and make a new ninja 250 stunt video once I get a bit more used to it.

Also spent $190 after tax total on some new thick Icon stunt gloves with titanium knuckles for if I hit the pavement.


Here's some proof pudding. I still say I should have grabbed a larger sprocket... I guess I'll start saving for a new chain/sprocket/sprocket combo lol.

The sproket looks real nice those were the gloves i wanted >.< but i think ima be mature and get ful gloves :P

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by rusninja

The sproket looks real nice those were the gloves i wanted >.< but i think ima be mature and get ful gloves :P

Alright dude. Where did you get the 13T front sprocket and what brand is it? Did you have to do any mods/shimming to get it on? What's your new 0-60 time?

I am trying to determine a good sprocket setup that boosts my acceleration without totally obliterating my top speed.

[nickjpass]

Is there a thread about gear ratios and what they are?

[CZroe]

How much longer before you install a hand brake on the left bar for the rear brake like Reza_SS?

[ninja250]

I think I'm gonna keep the stock brake for now.

I need to work on a solid fraction throttle mod and I have to get real back pegs mounted instead of passenger pegs that fold and break.

I did a wheelie yesterday on the passenger pegs and one of them folded up on me. I ended up doing a one footed wheelie and almost ate shyt.

Time to make some real pegs like Reza did.

The guy in the cage at the bike night last night had pegs like Rezza too.
I'm beginning to think somebody makes these type of stunt pegs or something. They look similar.

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by Outlander Systems

Alright dude. Where did you get the 13T front sprocket and what brand is it? Did you have to do any mods/shimming to get it on? What's your new 0-60 time?

I am trying to determine a good sprocket setup that boosts my acceleration without totally obliterating my top speed.

This is your modification then.

I like the bike like this. Revs a bit higher on the freeway but damn sure accelerates much quicker and doesn't have any problem keeping up with traffic on the 75mph 10fwy out here.

Passing cars is a breeze. You're around them in a second.

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Is there a thread about gear ratios and what they are?

As you can see at the top post,
There is a graph of gear ratios.

They adjust the speed and torque output power.
The gear ratios I seem to be playing with are between 3/1 and 4/1
(3-1 and 4-1) This is pronounced properly as "Three to one" or "four to one".

What this means is, the gearing gears the output from the transmission down 3 times or 4 times. (or any number in between)
It is necessary to create a working motorcycle.

You can't simply draw off the output shaft of the transmission or then the bike wouldn't have enough power at 1-1 ratio to accelerate.
You have to make the gearing easy on the engine and gear it down a few times itself. 1-2 ratio would be a ratio of 50% or 150%, which ever way you see it for the application.

I don't know if that helps explain it any.

Basically what the gears are doing is making it easy for the engine to move you.
Adjusting the ratio adjusts how fast and hard the engine moves you over a given RPM.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by ninja250

I think I'm gonna keep the stock brake for now.

I need to work on a solid fraction throttle mod and I have to get real back pegs mounted instead of passenger pegs that fold and break.

I did a wheelie yesterday on the passenger pegs and one of them folded up on me. I ended up doing a one footed wheelie and almost ate shyt.

Time to make some real pegs like Reza did.

The guy in the cage at the bike night last night had pegs like Rezza too.
I'm beginning to think somebody makes these type of stunt pegs or something. They look similar.

His looked more like they were custom crash bars with extended parts for protecting his sponsor (Two Bros) and they just happened to work as stunting pegs.

Yeah, after braking my right rider peg and having to go hundreds of miles on my passenger peg, I realized that it folds up if you even breathe on it from a rider's angle.

[Indetrucks]

Originally Posted by ninja250

Track Rat.

lol... so that's what stunters call us?
haha... I'm offended... somewhat.

Now where's my god damn cheese?