Destroying my reputation

[headshrink]

I'm about to destroy my reputation here.... if I even have one. I'm being serious, not witty or sarcastic (sometimes it's hard to tell on the internet). Since you have all been here for me during some difficult bike-wrenching projects, I feel like I owe this to all of you.

I have been silently holding onto something for a few days now, because I have been feeling too much shame to talk openly about it. My wife, and one friend knows, but I haven't told my dad yet, who, after a certain $800 purchase, expressed the desire to pay for it... when his business picks up too (very unexpected, am very grateful, yet feel guilty accepting).

Remember the video I posted of the mystery noise my engine was making? For reference, the video is here: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...7&postcount=46

For reasons I won't go into detail in this thread, I thought I might have this wrong, or that wrong, or those wrong, etc. I really DID get an education through this process, but never resolved the issue. I always thought I had bad valves, but my slide-slap theory was probably the best supported theory. Much of this was in an effort to a) be self-sufficient, b) learn something, c) feel like a man (didn't grow up around motors), d) save money, e) avoid the one thing I fear most..... dealer/mechanics. I eventually emailed an independent MC mechanic, and he said something like, "I think you should spend less time and money fixing what you THINK is wrong." Those words hurt, because deep down I knew it was true. I forged ahead anyways, thinking forum members will ALWAYS know more than a mechanic. This has been a VERY expensive education for me too.... around $1000 total.

Many of you know I just got a new-ish engine, and not long before that, a new-ish carburetor. These were essentially in an effort to fix the noise (and low compression), although I could only justify the engine after bending the input/drive-shaft (possibly bearings). But mainly, I just wanted a fresh start.

Since installing the new engine/carburetters, I have been working on a couple bugs, but am hopeful they will work themselves out, and I'm assuming that is just part of the process (I don't know, but I hope). I'm not here to discuss those bugs though.....

So here goes. My NEW-ish engine, and NEW-ish carburetors (both low-mileage ebay finds), seem to be making the SAME type of noise as you hear in the videos....... my heart sank when I heard it. No, I don't think the new set has the same problem, although it is theoretically possible. The only way I can make sense of it is that I am a paranoid, obsessive-compulsive, idiot. I officially have just enough knowledge to do some real harm.


If some some of you don't mind, would you take a close listen to your own engines, particularly focusing on the carbs (with screwdriver or stethoscope to ear), and let us know if your bike makes the same noise? Even if it is faint, and not as pronounced as mine, it will begin to help me make sense of, and have SOME closure. I know I didn't used to have this noise.... I can't be THAT oblivious... not for 2.5 years, which is about how long it took before I heard the noise.

Although I miss my old mentor, I'm kinda glad kkim didn't have to wittness this.

Please be nice, these are real tears.

[Kevin2109]

Where in California are you?

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Where in California are you?

Sacramento area.

[Kevin2109]

Darn, your really far. I was going to swing by and see If I could help

I'm going to be working on my carbs tonight anyway, I'll take a listen for that sound. I'm still trying to imagine the noise. I hate to ask but can you post the video that you think demonstrates the noise the best? Ive had my head inside my motor so many times I may even be able to tell if I know what It sounds like

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Darn, your really far. I was going to swing by and see If I could help

I'm going to be working on my carbs tonight anyway, I'll take a listen for that sound. I'm still trying to imagine the noise. I hate to ask but can you post the video that you think demonstrates the noise the best? Ive had my head inside my motor so many times I may even be able to tell if I know what It sounds like

Thanks for the thought. Wishing I was closer too.

The best videos are posted at this link: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...7&postcount=46
I'll embed the video if the link doesn't work for you.

Thanks Kevin.

[Kevin2109]

hmmm I'll have to take a look. So If I take a screw driver I can kinda hear it?

I may just go pick up a stethoscope from harbor freight

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

hmmm I'll have to take a look. So If I take a screw driver I can kinda hear it?

I may just go pick up a stethoscope from harbor freight

Yes. Hold the handle to your ear, and the point on the part you want to listen to.

That is where I got mine, on the CHEAP too.

[YORCHI]

I'm in Sacramento, my bike is brand new with 200 miles on it, you're welcome to meet up and take a listen to my bike yourself.

I work in Natomas off the 80 and Northgate, and I live in Natomas around West El Camino and the 80. PM me if you want, or just hit me up here, I brought my bike to work today again so if you want you can just swing by and bring your stethoscope or whatever and take a listen.

[EsrTek]

I used a screwdriver on my 2011 w/ 2k'ish miles has the exact sounds your video 2 does, it even goes away when revving.
Hate to say it, but I don't think it's an issue.

[YORCHI]

Is it what they call the Kawasaki tick?

I always thought my bike sounded ticky but since I've never had a bike or anything else to compare it to I just assumed that's how it is. I've seen some other videos online and it they can definitely tell when something is wrong cause it sounds like a rattle can being shaken up. My bike just ticks but I think it's normal

[bdavison]

If it starts, and runs....just ride it and quit worrying. If it blows up, you've got a spare.

[Nemesis]

I see so many of these threads (front wobble, ticking noise, problems this & that) I just shake my head. Mainly because it reminds me of how I was...paranoid with every little noise and feel which ruined every ride out.

Guys, these are very simple bikes. Pretty much 98.9% of what you think is wrong with the bike is all in your head and/or can be easily fixed using basic fundamental carb maintenance...nothing more. I know there may be more to it than that but those issues are again simple issues than what you make it out to be.

Just go out there and enjoy ride.

[ninja250]

If you pay my gas I'll come check it out.
I could use a quick vacation.

I'm not guaranteeing I can help with anything though!

I'll go listen to the noises.

[ninja250]

When you remove that thing, I don't hear anything out of the ordinary.
Sounds like my idle until you put that thing on there and then it starts rattling.

[DerTeufel]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I see so many of these threads (front wobble, ticking noise, problems this & that) I just shake my head. Mainly because it reminds me of how I was...paranoid with every little noise and feel which ruined every ride out.

Guys, these are very simple bikes. Pretty much 98.9% of what you think is wrong with the bike is all in your head and/or can be easily fixed using basic fundamental carb maintenance...nothing more. I know there may be more to it than that but those issues are again simple issues than what you make it out to be.

Just go out there and enjoy ride.

+1 Those noises are pretty normal and are nothing to be concerned about.

[headshrink]

Well, thank you guys.... your collective feedback does help put some of the anxiety behind me, refocus, and move/ride on. I just feel $h**y about going to such extremes as to replace virtually everything. To be honest though, if I went to a mechanic, unless he rode a 250r himself, I may not have believed him... unless he was REALLY convincing. Like parents know their children, I think some of us (me) have a tendency to think we know our specific bike better than anyone else...... humbling experience.

[Nemesis]

You need to go see a headshrink.

[DerTeufel]

Originally Posted by headshrink

To be honest though, if I went to a mechanic, unless he rode a 250r himself, I may not have believed him... unless he was REALLY convincing.

There's no reason to distrust an experienced mechanic just because he doesn't ride the same bike that you do. That being said, I am a mechanic and have been for the last 20 some odd years.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by DerTeufel

There's no reason to distrust an experienced mechanic just because he doesn't ride the same bike that you do. That being said, I am a mechanic and have been for the last 20 some odd years.

I know you're right, just being honest about how I think I messed it up. I think I am now a lot more likely to trust an independent mechanic.

[Jinx250]

You know, it would be super-easy to say "I told you so" but I won't, because the pain and expense you have gone through are more than enough. I recall telling you that your engine sounded normal some time back. You never know who's on the end of the line though, and free advice is often worth what you paid for it.

[ninja250]

Usually if you think there is something wrong with your own bike, there is. I wouldn't count it out if you really think something is wrong. If you think it might just be you then it likely is too. lol

If it didn't feel that way before then there might be something.

Why did you swap engines int he first place? Just trying to rid of a noise?

[headshrink]

Bob - I know. I was actually going to tell you first, just couldn't find your origional message in the sea of messages.

KC - The noise, primarily yes... I thought it was something scarry. Then I tested low comression. But when I F**ed up my input shaft, trying to service the clutch, I had enough. In the end.... I probably shoudl have had a mechanic fix the shaft, and listen to the noise, and continue to drive it until something REALLY showed up. Maybe its a good thing I was never able to get that 605r, I just couldn't afford this kind of dumb mistake on anything more expensive then the 250r.

[NathanF]

Headshrink,
I've been silently reading a lot of your posts over the past weeks, and I'm glad to see you write the above today. Definite progress!

I've dealt a bit with OCD stuff like this in the past, and it's easy to get obsessed over something. The bottom line though is that you've put more effort and emotion into this bike than is healthy. I say this as a friend, and someone who has done this exact kind of thing before.

Here's my advice:

1) Try not to emotionalize your bike. It's just a piece of metal, and a fairly cheap piece at that in the grand scheme of things. The fact that you learned to ride a motorcycle and work on it is really excellent. You don't have to be able to field strip your engine and rebuild it to be a man. Moreover, the success of your bike does not equate to your personal success in life. You're doing great by coming this far. Try not to get so down about what has gone wrong.

2) The internet can be an absolute brain sucking device, and you have to use it carefully. Remember that everything the experts on this forum see comes from you; you are their eyes, ears, and hands. That makes you the weakest link in the whole equation, and creates a recipe for disaster when chasing down vague possibly non-existent problems. They are not there to hear what you hear and say "Dude, all Ninja 250rs do that."

3) The idea that forum members will always know more than mechanics is beyond insane. Most people on here are here, at least to some extent, because they don't have a clue. (Myself included!) We all learn from each other, and with group think it can become a classic case of the blind leading the blind. There are plenty of experts, and lots of great knowledge and advice here. But when not a single person here has actually looked at or heard your bike, that immediately makes this distant internet forum < skilled bike mechanic standing next to the bike.

4) Mechanics are not intrinsically evil creatures sent from hell by the devil himself. Yes, some are bad, but plenty (most?) are just honest guys trying to make a buck fixing bikes. You need to except that you cannot do everything, and that is OK. Sometimes it's best to just spend the money and get a second opinion. I say this as someone who tries to DIY just about everything, even things most sane people would never even consider. But you can bet when the transmission in my car goes out, I'll be calling a mechanic, not taking the next few years off from work to learn how to fix it myself.

I think the best thing you can do now is get a mechanic or another forum member to look at your bike, and get your fears put to rest. Then you need to stop worrying about sounds, period. Unless something is obviously broken (and I do mean obvious to anyone, not some weird vague sound or slightly lower compression) - just ignore it. Or at the very least, get a skilled person to listen to it before you rip the entire thing apart chasing ghosts.

One thing I've learned in life is that if you go looking for trouble, trouble is precisely what you will find. All machines have quirks, and if you haven't worked on a large number of them (like, for instance, a MECHANIC), you won't have a proper feel for what is normal and what is abnormal.

Go ride and have fun. That's the point, after all!

[Domagoj]

I did not know if something was wrong with your engine before, and I do not know now. That's why I have never posted in your threads.

Do not feel bad about yourself. If you had at least a little fun while doing all of this, it was worth it. And I'm sure you did.
I do not think it is a bad thing. Maybe there is a better way, but who cares? Life is not about doing everything in the best way possible.

Most mechanics are nice honest guys who give their best. They love what they do, and that is big. Mechanic will not trick you - but a greedy manager will.
I do not want to sound haughty now, but they are only mechanics. If it's broken, they will fix it. It takes remarkable amount of practical knowledge and skill to do things fast and right.
Still, very few of them are engineers or scientists who dabble in stuff like optimizing the shape of exhaust pipes, or optimizing the fairings, or the shape of the frame, or detailed analysis of engine noises. I am afraid your problem is closer to scientist sphere than mechanic daily work.

In conclusion, see a mechanic, see four of them if you really want to. If they tell you it's fine, it is. It probably isn't 100% perfect, and there is certainly a reason for this noise, but it is good and safe enough.
Come to think of it, how many people crash because of technical malfunction? Almost none. That actually proves that mechanics do way better job than, well, basically anyone else.

[Jinx250]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Bob - I know. I was actually going to tell you first, just couldn't find your origional message in the sea of messages.

It's all good - like I said, I'm too old to tell people "I told you so" because all that does is sow miscontent.

Don't worry about your rep. As I said previously, when it comes down to YOUR bike, you have to tkae the course of action you feel is best, and I don't think anyone thinks any less of you for it. I certainly don't.

[headshrink]

Feelin' the love this morning

[YORCHI]

My offer still stands about you listening to my bike man...I'm free this weekend if you have time to swing by

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by YORCHI

My offer still stands about you listening to my bike man...I'm free this weekend if you have time to swing by

Thanks Yorchi, It seems to be quieting down a bit (bike and bike-anxiety), but will let you know if anything changes. Gotta work on wife's car this weekend too - don't worry..... I don't get obsessve about those

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Gotta work on wife's car this weekend too -

Oh No!!

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Oh No!!

LOL, I know right.

The only time I screwed up a car, was finding out the hard way CA will not smog cars with cheap headers you bought off ebay, and they don't take kindly to removing the airbox.... I had thrown the original parts away.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by headshrink

CA will not smog cars with cheap headers you bought off ebay, and they don't take kindly to removing the airbox.... I had thrown the original parts away.

my brother taught me this one... car wont pass smog? open the exhaust on the bottom of the car where it's not visible before the end of the exhaust. take it to a really cheap smog place. they won't put the car on the lift, just stick the thing in the tail pipe. my brother's horribly polluting car passes every time. just make sure you don't take it to a place that does repair also, otherwise they'll pull stupid crap like opening your gas tank to make your car throw an evap code or something and tell you they need money to fix it to pass.

[headshrink]

My new auto mech actually would not do my smog because I was having work done (O2 sensor). I had the impression it was due to some DMV restriction over a conflict of interest. The woman at the front told me she wasn't sure they would be and to do it, but would check.... I like them. They have a reputation locally of not doing any work they don't need to do. If only they did MCs......

[spooph]

Headshrink, it's was very good reading this post! I always say that you have to get your education somewhere, and you always end up paying for it - in parts that you mess up, or freak out over, or what not....

so.... you just gonna ride it for a while now? I certainly hope so, being that everything is practically new! Also, don't ever forget about the radio-fix.... You know how people with cars which make weird noises say they can fix everything with the radio - just turn it up.... yea, put in some ear-plugs or turn up the music in your ear-buds... :P sorta J/K, but yea... I had my cam-chain clacking away for almost 3K miles before I finally maintained the CCT last night, due to time constraints, and now all is purdy like...

Also, what you doing with that extra engine of yours?

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by spooph

Headshrink, it's was very good reading this post! I always say that you have to get your education somewhere, and you always end up paying for it - in parts that you mess up, or freak out over, or what not....

so.... you just gonna ride it for a while now? I certainly hope so, being that everything is practically new! Also, don't ever forget about the radio-fix.... You know how people with cars which make weird noises say they can fix everything with the radio - just turn it up.... yea, put in some ear-plugs or turn up the music in your ear-buds... :P sorta J/K, but yea... I had my cam-chain clacking away for almost 3K miles before I finally maintained the CCT last night, due to time constraints, and now all is purdy like...

Also, what you doing with that extra engine of yours?

Yes, I'm going to ride it
Keeping the old engine for the moment. I may rebuild it, sell it, I don't know.

[Kawinja]

I was the same way about my 250. I just got it about a week ago and i'm just now getting comfortable on it. before that i thought the bike had problems and it does to an extent... (turn signals don't work, speedometer take a second to catch, etc...) but i was struggling on take off. I'm good now and i love my bike turns out that my riding problems were all just user error.

[headshrink]

Well, if you resolved that after one week, you are doing better than me.... I've had it over three years.

[Kawinja]

I've always been like that though. Any new thing whether it's new or its new to me I've always been paranoid with sounds and things rattling...I get paranoid about the whole tank whistle thing even tho (luckily for this forum) i know that's normal... i'm starting to feel comfy on the bike i just had to figure out my clutch. My dad and a friend of mine told me my clutch is a lil off. I have to release it almost all the way before i get to the friction point. but i've gotten use to it so i'm ok with that now lol.

[headshrink]

This is the first new vehicle that I have bought... well, other than 3 (+1 for wife) bicycles, and 1 canoe. I was never so concerned with the used cars - LOL