Yep, I searched. I Googled. And while this is probably a common issue, I haven't found the right term to describe it, let alone search for it :)

The new-to-me-'07 started yesterday with 7600 miles on it, and ended the day with 8100. About 400 miles into that run, I noticed a bit of a ticking sound up front between the pipes at idle - off-idle, no tick. Of course, I checked the oil and coolant levels, which were fine, and chalked it up to my ears playing tricks on me... it'd been a long day, what with my 6'1" frame folded up on the little bike, and I was getting a little punchy.

Anyway, this morning I headed out for coffee sans earplugs, and the tick - for want of a better term - was pretty damn noticeable. Again, levels are good, off-idle is fine. I call it a "tick" because it's not a low-end sort of "knock" and definitely not a "ping". There's a dark part of my mind that wants to call it piston slap but I really, really don't want to go there since I haven't turned the bike over to the new owner.

So, I bow to the collective wisdom here to alert me to other possibilities that might be more relevant to the Li'l 250. Thanks for any pointers.

When was the last time the valves were adjusted? On the pregens, they are due at the 600 mile check and every 5k after that.

Could the ticking you're hearing be loose valves?

When was the last time the valves were adjusted? On the pregens, they are due at the 600 mile check and every 5k after that.

Could the ticking you're hearing be loose valves?

Nah. I live with boxer twins, so I'm pretty tuned in to valve ticking. This is more like a 1-per-rev "tack" - my research makes me think "weak link", as in shoddy cam chain tensioner, though I've heard it described variously as either sounding like a good solid tapping noise or a coffee can full of pebbles. For the price, swapping the tensioner out sounds like a pretty good start considering I ran it between 60 and 105 all day yesterday :D

From the service records, the valves were checked and found okay about 1K ago. This weekend for grins I'll double-check them myself and make sure the cam hasn't jumped a tooth. Problem is, this is the first 250 Ninja I've played with so I'm not certain that the motor's power delivery isn't just part of it's factory corked-uppedness. She's making great power at 7K and up, so I suspect valve timing is currently okay. I'll also do an oil change and think about running a slightly higher viscosity to see if that makes any difference.

cool... good luck. please keep us informed if replacing the tensioner resolves the problem. :)

cool... good luck. please keep us informed if replacing the tensioner resolves the problem. :)

Wilco :thumbup:

to check it's condition, be very careful to make sure you document how it's parts are put together. I've heard from other riders about getting it out and apart then realizing they didn't pay attention to how it goes together. Apparently there's a mistake that can be made with the short, fat spring.

There's a write-up in the ninja250.org FAQs about cam chain tensioner maintenance. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cam_chain_tensioner_maintenance

If it's all pitted like this guy's was, I'd say you should replace it immediately. http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic.php?p=778906#778906

I've heard that a loose cam chain can tear up the two guides/tensioners that ride against it (this is mentioned near the end of the Cam Chain Maintenance article I linked you to above) They're made of plastic and if this happens you can find the plastic bits on the oil screen when you do an oil change. (here's the oil screen checking article, http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Checking_the_oil_screen)

Good luck with it.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm 98% sure it's the tensioner. Stands to reason, really, that if it was going to die it'd do it right at 8000 miles while being flogged on the interstate.

The noise almost certainly originates from near the tensioner (though this damn motor is so small it's hard to be sure sometimes!). And the more I think about it, the less I'm liking valves as the culprit as I'd expect them to tighten up after a hard run like that (unless one of the locknuts grew legs, and I sure as hell would've eaten a valve during the day if that was the case).

So, since all the shops are closed today, I'll order one up tomorrow (doubt they have it in stock here in Mobile) unless someone can chime in with an internet retailer who'll have stock and can do speedy shipping. You know, one that we trust.

Hey, folks - cooling my heels for a coupla days here. Somebody check my reasoning: if this WAS a sloppy valve, wouldn't I expect it to be just as noisy off-idle?

Update: valves are done. Damn, but that's a tight spot for tappet adjustments! Coming from BMW motors, I sure hope I don't need to monkey with these again any time in the near future.

ALL the valves were tight. I ran 4 on the intakes and 6 on the exhausts and erred loose, and now that that's done I'm convinced that the replacement tensioner (which arrives Friday) will be just the ticket.

I have the same noise. It's not the CCT or Valves on my bike. It was due up for a major service so the valves got checked and CCT checked. None of that fixed the problem. Mechanic also torqued down the header and checked some other stuff. After some research on ninja250.org I think the problem is this:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What%27s_that_noise_coming_from_the_clutch%3F

Are you going to pull the clutch basket to find out for sure?

The article mentions finding tiny bits of the rubber bumper black stuff on the oil screen. Have you checked your oil screen?

Yeah, in my case it's not the clutch. I pulled the screen early this morning and it was clean... and then I slip-tested the clutch and the rattle persisted.

So, I'm just waiting on the part to come in tomorrow and I should be good to go.

Mmm... new cam chain tensioners are sweeeeeeet :thumbup:

What's funny is that if you compare the spring tension(s) between the old and new units, the squeeze test doesn't show a discernible difference. The most obvious wear item in the assembly looks to be the roller bearing.

Oh well. She's quiet and happy now. Time to ride her :D

Thanks for the input, everybody.

Oh well. She's quiet and happy now. Time to ride her :D



nice work! :thumbup:

enjoy
:)

Scott have you a DIY in the works?

Scott have you a DIY in the works?

Considering I had to fudge not having a 1/4" u-joint in my normal GS tool roll (shame on me), there really isn't much to add to the Wiki procedure.

Now getting to the exhaust valve tappets... sheesh.

When was the last time the valves were adjusted? On the pregens, they are due at the 600 mile check and every 5k after that.

Could the ticking you're hearing be loose valves?


Gonna have to disagree here. Responsible riders will get 12k miles between valve adjustments on.. hell just about any japanese bike (don't ask about the italians though). But most dealers who want your service money won't tell you that...

sorry, I mis spoke... it's 6k miles, not 5k. 12k??? I don't think so. it's called "preventive maintenance", not "adjust when you think it's okay maintenance".

do what you want... I'm just quoting what the manufacturer recommends.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Do_I_really_need_to_adjust_the_valves_every_6000_miles%3F

Responsible riders will get 12k miles between valve adjustments on..

Okay, I'm really curious - how does the relative responsibility of your riding style affect your valve lash?

Gonna have to disagree here. Responsible riders will get 12k miles between valve adjustments on.. hell just about any japanese bike (don't ask about the italians though). But most dealers who want your service money won't tell you that...

sure thats responsible ROFL

Scott does your bike sound like so?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUVBonQ9AjI

if not your probably fine these bikes have a noisy valve train especially cold and at idle...running a good synthetic quiets it down a bunch.

Scott does your bike sound like so?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUVBonQ9AjI

if not your probably fine these bikes have a noisy valve train especially cold and at idle...running a good synthetic quiets it down a bunch.

It's all good now, Nate. The only thing I need to do now is a carb sync next weekend. I thought I had my TwinMax on the GS this week but I was wrong and didn't have time to fake up a manometer.

Won't be long before I need to uncork this thing, I'll tell ya.

It's all good now, Nate. The only thing I need to do now is a carb sync next weekend. I thought I had my TwinMax on the GS this week but I was wrong and didn't have time to fake up a manometer.

Won't be long before I need to uncork this thing, I'll tell ya.

so i just noticed your in rainbow city, i'm just right up the road near Fort Payne. Howdy neighbor

so i just noticed your in rainbow city, i'm just right up the road near Fort Payne. Howdy neighbor

Howdy, mang. Gonna be here this week putting new tires and making nice to the GS and generally farting around before spending next weekend in Mobile, then back to Dallas.

cool well if your on your bike checkout the lookout mountain parkway it starts somewhere down there near gasden and runs most the legth of the mountain..Fun ride

Got another bike doing hard ticking. Took a recording today while doing some other things, please ignore my innane commentary. After reading thru this thread, I'm thinking valve chain tensioner for 2 reasons:
1) it's definitely stronger on the right side of the bike, even if it doesn't show in the vid
2) had the valves checked at 7800mi (3000mi ago) and they were spot on.

5529 It's ~19MB, be forewarned. Wanted to edit, but can't find my usual vid edit software and don't wanna lose what little sound quality there is in a re-encode

As I mentioned in the video, I initially thought it was just drastically too lean, but that wasn't the case. I walked the mix screws to over 3 turns out and no difference.

It's running around 40F here and has been doing this for a while. At first thought it was just the 'normal' noise but finally heard another, 'younger' 250 today and it's definitely something wrong.


Timing chain tensioner. Agree/disagree/alternate ideas?
If so, how bad do ya'll think it would be to ride to my dealer of choice (some ~70mi up the road)?

70 miles? No sweat. But really, just get the new tensioner and swap it yourself... I wouldn't waste the money having the dealer do it.

When was the last time the valves were adjusted? On the pregens, they are due at the 600 mile check and every 5k after that.

Could the ticking you're hearing be loose valves?

Hey, my manufactures manual says:

First Valve Clearance Check 800 KM(500)
Remaining Checks every 3125 Miles

Do you know if I should do a clearance check on a 09'?

70 miles? No sweat. But really, just get the new tensioner and swap it yourself... I wouldn't waste the money having the dealer do it.

Aye, that's the plan. If I run in to the dealer instead of having it shipped, I'll likely be able to get the part before February. Also wanted to run by the shop and let them take a listen while I was there. Really loathe the idea of it being something else, but not too confident on my trouble-shooting ability within the engine if it isn't the chain tensioner.


Hey, my manufactures manual says:
First Valve Clearance Check 800 KM(500)
Remaining Checks every 3125 Miles

Interesting... my '08 manual instructs checks at 7500mi intervals after the break-in. 7500mi has been suggested as excessively often, but if the manual says it needs it, there's probably a reason. I'd strongly suggest learning how to do it yourself though to save some big $$ checking it every 3k.

Might also take a look over here, lots of other opinions on the valve checks:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11321&highlight=ticking

Hey, my manufactures manual says:

First Valve Clearance Check 800 KM(500)
Remaining Checks every 3125 Miles

Do you know if I should do a clearance check on a 09'?

WOW, that is insanely frequent. I check mine every 5k-ish. Err...well..basically when I feel like it. lol


Oh and the secret to gaining access to the adjusters is either remove the gas tank, or custom make some tools. I did that with a screwdriver and the socket. Ground down a 1/4" drive socket just a tad so it would clear the casting...worked great. Then have a small wrench handy to tighten it up the rest of the way.

the 86-88 models needed valve adj. every 3000 miles because they had softer seats than the 89-07 models. I'm willing to bet that the 08+ are similar to the 88-07 valvetrain

make sure the cam hasn't jumped a tooth.

How would one go about this?

the 86-88 models needed valve adj. every 3000 miles because they had softer seats than the 89-07 models. I'm willing to bet that the 08+ are similar to the 88-07 valvetrain

You might be right, my manual is a 1988.

Did you ever figure out what is wrong? Is there something wrong? I can't tell from the video. What am I looking for?

Edit: I hear the tick. Mine has the same but not as loud. Is that normal? Meaning, is it normal to hear the ticking noise but not normal for it to be loud? Thanks. I only have 400 miles on the bike btw.

Aye, that's the plan. If I run in to the dealer instead of having it shipped, I'll likely be able to get the part before February. Also wanted to run by the shop and let them take a listen while I was there. Really loathe the idea of it being something else, but not too confident on my trouble-shooting ability within the engine if it isn't the chain tensioner.




Interesting... my '08 manual instructs checks at 7500mi intervals after the break-in. 7500mi has been suggested as excessively often, but if the manual says it needs it, there's probably a reason. I'd strongly suggest learning how to do it yourself though to save some big $$ checking it every 3k.

Might also take a look over here, lots of other opinions on the valve checks:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11321&highlight=ticking

Well, I've been told the cam chain does make some amount of 'tick' normally and listening to your vids, it sounds OK. Mine is making a lot of engine noise, especially when I was beside a '09 with <1/3 the miles I have. FWIW, I'm at about 10,750mi.

As for my engine, the valves were a bit out of spec (checked while I'm waiting on parts) so that should help a bit. Cam chain, tensioner and guides look A-OK but supposedly the tensioner can be 'bad' and look normal so I'm hoping it was just that. Long story short, still not 100% sure what's wrong, but my ears & shop guy agreed it's the tensioner. Will find out when it shows up and I get it installed.

Well, after adjusting the valves as well as putting in a new tensioner and guides, my 'jett's engine seems happier. Pretty sure it was the CCT making the ticking, both from other people's reports and the old one felt a little weak vs new one when I re-compressed them both.