July 23rd, 2013, 06:15 AM | #1 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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Brake, throttle and clutch control skills
I'm going to post this here until Alex comes up with a better place for it. He's its a video but its also in response to questions about riding skills so I guess it could go in ether.
In response to my videos from Laguna Seca awhile back someone had asked how I was able to downshift so quickly, blip throttle and hard brake so late without the bike getting outa shape. So here are the videos I got from the weekend on the right and left side handlebars. This video will also show my use of the clutch as a rear brake. First part is throttle, second parts is clutch. So give it a view and let me know what you think. |
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July 23rd, 2013, 07:29 AM | #2 |
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July 23rd, 2013, 08:21 AM | #3 |
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Hm interesting...let me try this today lol
I downshift multiple times while grabbing the clutch all the way and i knew it was wrong >.< |
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July 23rd, 2013, 09:37 AM | #4 |
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That is some serious skills...
Just when I was getting ok to downshift while braking... On a street point of view, that must not be good for the clutch, isn't it? |
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July 23rd, 2013, 09:47 AM | #5 |
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So, the first part you try and get the ice tea in that little container to stay level. The second part, I love those Mohammed Ali gloves.
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July 23rd, 2013, 10:00 AM | #6 |
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skills : you have them
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July 23rd, 2013, 10:06 AM | #7 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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July 23rd, 2013, 10:18 AM | #8 | |
The Corner Whisperer
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Quote:
I personally like to be in the proper gear before the turn in point. Especially while on the street. Different strokes for different folks. Cool stuff Jason!
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July 23rd, 2013, 10:26 AM | #9 |
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Thanks Chris,
I thought that would or could make the clutch slips more than usual and induce some premature wear on the plates. |
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July 23rd, 2013, 10:31 AM | #10 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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Quote:
Then there's the fact that I raced a lot of races each weekend and a lot of weekends per year. At least 4 race starts per weekend and around 22 weekends a year. I'm also not babying the starts ether since I pretty much hole shorted ever race entered. I believe the fact that I'm stressing the fiber plates in the opposite direction as you normally do it does something to them. Maybe by stressing them in two directions slowly it keeps them from tearing vs always pulling them in one direction I don't really know but you can't argue with the fact that my clutches last 3-4 times longer then most racers at my level. I automatically only use as much reverse clutch braking as needed per situation so for normal street riding I don't slip it much if any at all, but for fun canyon rides I believe I do. This is basically a like a slipper clutch with infinite on the fly adjustability. The only problem is figuring out how to program the computer(the rider) to always control it right every time. |
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July 23rd, 2013, 11:18 AM | #11 |
ninjette.org member
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I don't think I fully understand
What's the difference between keeping the clutch at the engagement point vs letting it out completely in terms of braking? I'd go test it but my bike's getting fixed. When you mention you let the clutch drag, does that generate extra friction? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume it does, as the gear isn't fully engaged hence it isn't spinning at full speed. I've never come across this before. |
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July 23rd, 2013, 12:17 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
If you let it all go at once, you might experience wheel hopping or wheel locking, but if you keep it at engagement point, you can modulate how much braking you want and you'll keep the hopping in check... Same as slamming the brake or going gradually to prevent mishap. |
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July 23rd, 2013, 12:22 PM | #13 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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First I'll say this clutch technique it not something someone taught me or something I read about in a book, its something I started doing instinctively back when I was racing YSR50's. As I came up through racing I never used the rear brake and no one ever asking me about it or was even aware I didn't use it because I was already adapting to the sport so fast I think they all just let me self learn for the most part. It wasn't until they started bring out the slipper clutches that I learn about what I had be doing all along. First time right a bike with a SC I could get the bike to stop and couldn't figure out why. After talking it over with the team we realized I need the clutch to grip or I needed to learn how to use the rear brake. I tried but I could never get anywhere near the same level of control with the rear brake as I could with the clutch so we opted to disengage the slipper function of the clutch. So when I don't blip the throttle and pull in the clutch the RPMs start to drop immediately and as I carefully slip the clutch to get the RPMs the match the rear wheel that creates the braking effect. So by not blipping the clutch I'm able to get a larger difference between rpm and wheel speed and give myself more braking force to play with. Another thing I would use on certain tracks was adding an extra upshift(short shift) before going into a decreasing radius or dog leg turn so instead of only going two downshifts and getting 3000RPMs worth of braking I'd be able to downshift three times and get 4500RPMs worth of braking force that I could apply. This extra downshift method is extremely effective going into a right hand turn where you normally wouldn't be able to drag the rear brake because your foot would hit the pavement. I think I'm starting to talk in circulars here so let me know if this still doesn't make sense. |
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July 23rd, 2013, 12:53 PM | #14 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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I type everything I post on my phone and on top of that I only get to it a minute at a time between doing calculations and running my shop. So by the time I get the the second paragraph ice already forgotten what the hell I was talking about. Give it another 30 years when I start going senile then people will really get lost reading my posts
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July 23rd, 2013, 01:04 PM | #15 |
Done here.
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This is exactly how Jason Pridmore teaches shifting. Excellent post / video!
He says blipping throttle while braking is also correct but very hard to do it perfect without suffering in shifts and/or hard braking. Shifting like in the video, especially shifting RIGHT AFTER you release the throttle (not waiting another 2 secs and then start shifting down) keeps the bike on higher rpms (which is exactly what you're doing with blipping anyway) and prevents rear slide. |
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July 23rd, 2013, 01:26 PM | #16 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
That makes perfect sense though. I didn't think of it that way. Might need to try it out once my bike's back from the shop. She's still randomly dying during rides. ECU doesn't spit out any error codes either...just slowly dies. I tend to brake just below my usual corner entry speed then over-rev and kick down a gear. That gets me back up to speed before I lean in. It's worked wonderfully so far although I know it's not the proper technique. When coming to a stop (Spanish highways LOVE placing stop signs / roundabouts just seconds off the exits) I'd let the bike roll in 6th until 2-2,500 RPM then downshift and repeat. Brake if needed but I usually let the bike almost die before kicking down. I did have 5-year old stock tires for almost 16,000km. Fresh BT45s just got put on as she started dying. Would love to try a little more aggressive riding. |
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July 23rd, 2013, 01:33 PM | #17 |
RIP Alex
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Should've done a side by side
Either way, a good vid
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July 23rd, 2013, 02:29 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
For that reason, it has been recommended for slowing down a bike in extremely slippery conditions. It is a great video that @Jiggles may want to sync side by side for the enjoyment and learning of all the members and visitors of our site.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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July 23rd, 2013, 02:37 PM | #19 |
Your face
Name: Wes
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I notice you grab the front brake with two fingers. Is that something I should learn for everyday riding, or mainly a track technique?
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July 23rd, 2013, 02:46 PM | #20 | |
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Keeping the clutch at the engagement point increases the speed of the rear wheel and bike slowly. Letting the clutch out suddenly may induce a wheelie. It is all about inertia. When you downshift keeping the same engine's rpm, the engine is rotating too slowly respect to the rear wheel for the new transmission rate. Then, when the clutch engages, the kinetic energy of the bike is transferred to the parts of the engine, which are forced to accelerate against their natural inertia. Once the engine is up to speed, the braking effect of that inertia disappear and any further braking effect comes from the chocking effect of a closed throttle (if the pilot keeps it closed for added braking). Any successive downshift re-starts the inertia braking process. If the clutch is released too soon, the inertia of the engine (higher in this case) may overwhelm the traction of the contact patch, inducing a rear skid.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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July 23rd, 2013, 02:55 PM | #21 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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Sorry you a side by side can't be done exactly because the two side are from seperate sessions, one mount for both angles
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July 23rd, 2013, 03:08 PM | #22 |
King Hamfist
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@rasta - The four fingers while braking is an msf thing. It's for safety so you can't blip the throttle accidentally. If your msf instructor told you the bull ish story about preventing fingers from being chewed off in a low side crash or that Rossi uses four fingers well to each his own.
Dirt bikes, shorty levers on street bikes, modern motorcycle braking systems, mountain bicycles and road bicycles all suit the two finger braking technique much better. It's also harder to rev match when using four fingers. And on high performance bikes there is a need for finer modulation on the brakes. A ducati 1098 has monobloc brembo brakes up front. I can easily one finger those because they will easily throw the bike up on its nose. |
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July 23rd, 2013, 03:13 PM | #23 |
King Hamfist
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You should dig up a video of the more advanced cool stuff you do with that clutch technique.
At Vegas this guy was totally backing in the r1 into a couple of corners. Using the clutch to apply engine braking in a controlled manner you can be hard on the front brakes and pitch the rear into a controlled slide. Hence backing it in. |
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July 23rd, 2013, 04:06 PM | #24 | |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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July 23rd, 2013, 04:15 PM | #25 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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Quote:
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July 23rd, 2013, 04:20 PM | #26 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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They want the left and right view on the screen at once so they can see the timing of both hands at once. You could probably match turn 2,and eleven individually for a single clip and sync the two clips off the throttle chop but I think that's going to be hard. My line and lap times are normally within a 1% so its not impossible.
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July 23rd, 2013, 04:20 PM | #27 |
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July 23rd, 2013, 04:30 PM | #28 | |
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July 23rd, 2013, 05:09 PM | #29 |
dirty boy
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take the clips of his throttle control and sync it side by side with the clip of his clutch control so you can see them simultaneously at the same time point as well in the vid.
Edit - N/M i just saw rojo say they are from two different sessions |
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July 23rd, 2013, 05:46 PM | #30 |
King Hamfist
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Seriously, how does someone such as yourself find his way to ninjette.org? O wait I spent 2 minutes on gixxer.com and wanted to kill myself too. Congrats on being part of the .1% of gixxxah own3rs that don't suck.
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July 23rd, 2013, 07:07 PM | #31 |
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CC's a goof, but we're lucky to have him. You just have to coax the info out of him
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July 23rd, 2013, 08:49 PM | #32 |
King Hamfist
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Does he even have a ninjette?
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July 23rd, 2013, 09:22 PM | #33 | |
Your face
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July 24th, 2013, 10:03 AM | #34 |
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rumors say no! couldn't handle the G's in the turns!
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July 24th, 2013, 02:45 PM | #36 | |
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That was an awesome perspective! Good video!
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July 28th, 2013, 01:45 PM | #37 |
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I vote riding skills.
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July 28th, 2013, 03:08 PM | #38 |
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Awesome video, rojoracing53
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July 29th, 2013, 12:14 PM | #39 | |
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March 15th, 2014, 09:11 AM | #40 |
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Blippity blip, blip
Some nice throttle blipping and braking action (+ style points for ):
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