Would motorized travel be safer if cars didn't exist?

[Sykes92]

I've always kinda played around with the hypothetical question of what it would be like if the only motorized vehicle on public roads, was a motorcycle. Thought it might be a fun hypothetical discussion.

Now let's imagine that shipments usually taken care of by trucks or semis is taken care of by some futuristic technology, be it fancy underground highspeed trains or by deatomizing storage units that can reatomize the object you need (think Star Trek).

I'm sure there are many more sub-questions that could go along with this, but just simply imagine, for now, that everyone rides on two wheels, cars don't exist. What do you personally imagine would be the benefits, or cons, of safety, society, and the world as a whole if motorcycles were the sole vehicles on roads?

Just a fun question to boggle with!

[choneofakind]

http://highdeas.com/

[csmith12]

^^^^ lol

No, humans will crash anything. Planes, trains, cars, bikes, scooters, 4wheelers, tricycles....

Next there will be bans on walking & texting because that will be too complex of a task.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Next there will be bans on walking & texting because that will be too complex of a task.

From personal observation, that law might actually benefit some people. Texting and tweeting away. #walkingintotraffic

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

I've always kinda played around with the hypothetical question of what it would be like if the only motorized vehicle on public roads, was a motorcycle..........

Your hypothesis is not far from the realm of underdeveloped and overpopulated countries.

Copied from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle#Demographics:

"In numerous cultures, motorcycles are the primary means of motorized transport. According to the Taiwanese government, for example, "the number of automobiles per ten thousand population is around 2,500, and the number of motorcycles is about 5,000." In places such as Vietnam, motorized traffic consist of mostly motorbikes[4] due to a lack of public transport and low income levels that put automobiles out of reach for many.
The four largest motorcycle markets in the world are all in Asia: China, India, Indonesia, and Vietnam."

http://www.gizmag.com/motorcycles-re...gestion/21420/

As you can see here, regarding population/car/motorcycle rates, USA is more the exception than the rule.





http://images.gizmag.com/hero/isaak-...y-leuven-4.png

The low displacement (cc) of the 90% of the bikes rolling around Earth makes traffic and accidents less lethal.
The typical squid on a SS crotch rocket is not as common in this world as the practical rider of a 50 cc moped or scooter.

Copied from http://www.chicagonow.com/motorcycle...orld-go-round/

"My recent travels took me to South America (Argentina Uruguay and Chile). It did not take me long to realize that there were no motorcycles above 250cc's anywhere to be found.....
When taking into account the sizes of these other countries, and the equal need to be mobile like us Americans, I can't help but ask, how is it that they can exist on such a lower-powered bike, carrying all sorts of crazy packages and multiple passengers, when here in the US, we frown upon on anything less than a 250cc scooter or 600cc motorcycle."

I would add that the frugality of those engines helps the black gold last longer while keeping human kind and its consumable goods mobile.
After we dry out all the available oil wells, ........ who knows?

Interesting hypothetical question.

[rojoracing53]

Most people can't handle 4 wheels, so how could sticking them on two wheels be a good idea Yeah I vote to leave cagers in their cages but vote to add mandatory EMP devises to all vehicles so all you can do is focus on the task at hand.

It's not the devise in hand that's the problem, its the conversation it self.

[rasta]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

http://highdeas.com/

I found that page hilarious

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by rasta

I found that page hilarious

You missed the chance to use this

[allanoue]

Autonomous automobiles will make riding safer. Computers do not have a mental blind spot. Will they screw up and kill some of us; yes, just a lot fewer of us. I have a subaru with eyesight and I was driving with a friend's mom who is in her 70's, she said the car sees and stops much smoother then her or her husband. She said this because I was commenting about how I was smoother. She also said it was difficult to tell the difference between me and it, without looking at my feet. The eyesight system does not suffers from distracted driving. It can text without taking its eyes off the road.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Your hypothesis is not far from the realm of underdeveloped and overpopulated countries.

I would add that the frugality of those engines helps the black gold last longer while keeping human kind and its consumable goods mobile.
After we dry out all the available oil wells, ........ who knows?

Interesting hypothetical question.

As always Hernan, you never cease to amaze me. Great post! Can you put your finger on a comparison of the number accidents (cage or bike) per country? I wonder if other countries have as many accidents as we do here in America.

In my opinion, it depends. Before I learned to ride, I was an above average defensive driver with no accidents, watchful of folks ahead. Even so, my defensive driving skills improved even more after I started riding a motorcycle. Knowing on a bike in a crash with a cage, YOU WILL LOSE, you tend to revert to your instinct to survive. Other rider friends of mine feel the same way. It seems riding makes people better drivers, with exceptions of course.

That said, you'd have more idiots and more testosterone raging on the roads out there.

What a great question! I'm going to keep thinking on it.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by ally99

............ Can you put your finger on a comparison of the number accidents (cage or bike) per country? I wonder if other countries have as many accidents as we do here in America......

Thanks, Alyson

Unfortunately, international data that I have found is only related to fatal accidents.

Curiously, the countries with higher rates are from Africa and Middle East, which are not the ones with higher density in cars or motorcycles.

Although the chances to die in a traffic accident are 35 higher for a motorcyclist than for a car driver, the superior vial education, traffic signaling, quality of the roads and safety devices in USA make their road fatalities per 100,000 motor vehicles only 15, while those are almost 2,300 in Pakistan and 12,000 in Ethiopia.

Take a look at these:
http://internationaltransportforum.o...ty/safety.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by allanoue

I have a subaru with eyesight

you have a car that brakes and steers for you?? Sweet.

...but there's a simpler and more effective solution to the problem at hand:
Pay attention while driving.






It's awesome that we can make a car do that. It really is. I find this stuff fascinating. But I would never buy that. I'd never trust it. We can't even make a phone OS without bugs.

[allanoue]

FTFY

Originally Posted by choneofakind

you have a car that brakes and steers for you?? Sweet.

...but there's a simpler and more unrealistic solution to the problem at hand:
Pay attention while driving.






It's awesome that we can make a car do that. It really is. I find this stuff fascinating. But I would never buy that. I'd never trust it. We can't even make a phone OS without bugs.

It does not steer but it yells at me if I start to change lanes without first using my turn signal.

I do not completely trust it. I supervise and take over regularly. It has no anticipation skills. It rocks for slow and go traffic jams. If I come to a stop for more than 2 seconds I do need to push a button to get going again but it will let me know if traffic starts back up and I do not.

[choneofakind]

I'm confused how paying attention to your driving is unrealistic? You ride a motorcycle; you know how important it is to pay attention to what's going on around you while you're on the roads.

[Whiskey]

Chone I assume from that last comment that you've not been on the roads for long...


Anyone that rides on the road knows that bikers pay attention, cagers on the other hand generally do as much as possible to avoid paying attention on the road... I've seen texting, eating, Reading, applying make up, Morning ablutions, pissing about with laptops, singing along to the radio, shouting at kids in the back... You name it.


Replace airbags with bayonet points & people will pay a lot more attention to their driving (about as realistic as drivers actually paying attention to the road...)

[Sirref]

what's unrealistic is to expect other people around you to pay attention while driving

[choneofakind]

Oh! That makes more sense. I never intended a general audience when I said pay attention. My comment was aimed at Al directly. He has no need for that feature, he should know better than to use it. It's cool and all, but for someone who rides, it's nothing more than a toy.

I don't trust other drivers for beans. Then again, has this eyesight thing been tested on bikes and motorcycles? What about pedestrians? Only testing I'm finding in my web search is with big foam blocks that imitate cars...

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Sirref

what's unrealistic is to expect other people around you to pay attention while driving

I've lived in 5 cities in a couple of countries, commuted by bike or push bike for how long & one thing that constantly pops up is the complete disregard that ~80% of drivers show to their driving.

Experience and common sense say it's unrealistic to expect drivers to pay attention. That's why as a biker you must be 100% switched on while on the road, the other dumb ****ers will kill you without realising until it's too late.

Personally I see driving about the same as walking down the road with a shotgun, get laxidaisy with either & it can kill someone.

Don't know why but the law (where I'm from) sees a difference between hitting someone with a lump of metal that you need a licence to operate and hitting someone with a lump of metal launched from something you need a licence to operate, usually it's a 10 year difference...

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Chone I assume from that last comment that you've not been on the roads for long...

Yeah, relatively short time. But you still mistook my comment at him. Or I wasn't clearly accusatory or something...


7 years on a bicycle, 5 in a car, 4 on a motorcycle (all overlapping). Pretty short, relatively speaking. Starting on a pedal bike and moving to a motorcycle gave me a different perspective than most. I get exactly what you're talking about.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'm confused how paying attention to your driving is unrealistic? You ride a motorcycle; you know how important it is to pay attention to what's going on around you while you're on the roads.

How many times have you checked the time or changed stations or sneezed while you were driving I hope I am on it 99.999%.. No one pays attention 100% of the time. Some cars are, in all direction, all the time. You can not do that

[choneofakind]

You're right, no one can be on 110% alert for 100% of the time.




but your examples. If those distract you, that's your fault. The radio can wait. The clock will be predictably plodding forward. The snot, well, you can clean that later. (know how many times I've used Purell on my steering wheel?)

That EyeSight thing is cool, but I'm not sure it's meant to be used in everyday traffic like you're doing. That use in itself is more of a distraction than going without it.

[az3200]

I think it would be safer if everyone with a DL was forced to spend a few days in traffic on a bike

[allanoue]

@Sykes92 sorry for the thread jack but I do not think riding even with no cars or trucks around is safer over all. It would be safer for those of us who ride anyway.

@choneofakind It does see bicycles and pedestrians as well as cars infact I have set it to follow pedestrians. It is a toy but it cuts down on stress for my very long commute, not as much as the ninja but it helps me.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Anyone that rides on the road knows that bikers pay attention, cagers on the other hand generally do as much as possible to avoid paying attention on the road... I've seen texting, eating, Reading, applying make up, Morning ablutions, pissing about with laptops, singing along to the radio, shouting at kids in the back... You name it.

What about cagers who also ride bikes? The defensive driving skills transfer, at least they do for me. Do you think this is true across the board? Do you all feel you're more defensive drivers than before you started riding a bike?

[choneofakind]

Yes.

[DEFY]

Automated vehicles, bad idea. Increase in sensor awareness, Good. As technology grows we can only push it to an extent before it becomes a burden on society. Same idea as killing off an entire species cause they annoy us, good idea to us bad idea over all.

[willi777]

My Idea? NO ONE drives a car until they put in 3 yrs on a motorcycle. Auto drivers will be much more courteous to everyone on the road, and everyone will be a much better driver due to what they've learned/witnessed on a bike.

[MR2Aaron]

Originally Posted by willi777

My Idea? NO ONE drives a car until they put in 3 yrs on a motorcycle. Auto drivers will be much more courteous to everyone on the road, and everyone will be a much better driver due to what they've learned/witnessed on a bike.

Better idea: 3 years on a bicycle.

I tell you what. After you've commuted to work on a bicycle for 3 years (I have), you really appreciate what a car does for you. Furthermore, once you've been hit by a car on a bicycle, you really appreciate the awesome responsibility of operating a motor vehicle.

[alex.s]

motorized travel would be easier if everyone wasn't an idiot

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by ally99

What about cagers who also ride bikes? The defensive driving skills transfer, at least they do for me. Do you think this is true across the board? Do you all feel you're more defensive drivers than before you started riding a bike?

Cagers: someone who has never owned a motorbike.

Yeah the skills transfer & it's across the board.

Bikers driving cars have about 30% less accidents than cagers

[alex.s]

wait if cager is only cardriver who doesnt bike, whats a biker in a cage?

a caged animal?

[ally99]

Originally Posted by alex.s

wait if cager is only cardriver who doesnt bike, whats a biker in a cage?

a caged animal?

Yes. Feels that way.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by csmith12

^^^^ lol

No, humans will crash anything. Planes, trains, cars, bikes, scooters, 4wheelers, tricycles....

Next there will be bans on walking & texting because that will be too complex of a task.

They been trying to pass a law like that here in Nevada.

[csmith12]

Such a waist..... I can't even comprehend such thought.

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by ally99

Yes. Feels that way.

Haha I can't say I feel trapped in my car. I feel warm lol (I bought my bike in the winter, I've yet to experience warm/summer weather). But I do feel like I'm watching a movie or not actually operating a vehicle, certainly feel more alert and defensive after riding a bike though.

[Sykes92]

So since we sort of touched subject on automated cars. Here's another hypothetical question, based heavily on sci-fi. What about a motorcycle that links with you, like a cybernetic symbiosis. The bike knows what you intend to do before you do it, could counteract any mistake you make, before you make it. Would you ride such a vehicle or be creeped out you're part machine for the time you ride it? Do you think this would help with reaction times and possibly prevent collisions more effectively? Or possibly make you feel less in control.

[DEFY]

Stupid sensors are the way to stay, enough to assist in driving but nothing that gives them controls of the vehicle, last thing you want is something malfunctioning and trying to make decisions for you.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

What about a motorcycle that links with you, like a cybernetic symbiosis. The bike knows what you intend to do before you do it, could counteract any mistake you make, before you make it.

They have these already, we call them yamahas.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by allanoue

It does see bicycles and pedestrians as well as cars infact I have set it to follow pedestrians.

You set your car up to be a stalker??? Prevert



Back to your regularly scheduled program

[corksil]

I don't mean to sound like mister racist hate crimeing compassionateless human, but people don't fukking traffic where I live. They don't roadsign, they don't turnsignal, they don't mirrorcheck, they don't personalspace, and above all, they don't english.

They don't trafficlight, they don't stopsign, they don't makeup before leaving home, they don't speedlimit, and the surely don't vehiclemaintenance. I don't even think they brain around here.

Catch my drift?

People on the whole are idiots. Not trying to act like mister master-human, and I sure do make my fair share of mistakes, but the public roads where I live are a battlefield. Everyone drives like they are in a competition to get to their destination as fast as possible.

I guess that's what I get for living in a 'holiday vacation destination.' I loan cars to visitors from time to time, and most of them can provide a driver's license and enough green money to get themselves into the driver's seat, but honestly I don't feel comfortable renting a single car to any single one of them. After placing cameras in the rental vehicles and watching the driving habits of 'vacationers' -- my faith in humanity has thoroughly diminished.

After seeing what I've seen, I choose to not ride my bike during the holidays, and I choose to get home long before dark to sit in my chair far away from the public roads.

Sorry to be mister negative, but not even the most sophisticated vehicular technology can protect the mentally-insufficient 'driver' from damaging their vehicle or others around them.

As technology improves, the human brain will atrophy to maintain homeostasis. In simple terms -- the more your car will 'think' for you, the less responsibility you have as a driver, and the more 'slack' you'll expect to have, therefore increasing the margin for error commensurately.

It's been said before "design it to be idiot-proof, and the universe will design a better idiot."

Disheartening? Yes. Unfortunate? Very. Reality? Very much the truth.

Ride safe guys. Personally I'd rather be the passive-aggressive-defensive driver who do pisses people off in traffic instead of getting pasted by an old woman in a 6000lb SUV (which her grandson probably bought her so 'gramma' can blow through red lights (because she didn't see them) and still make it home for christmas dinner.