Fitting More Fingers Under Clutch Lever

[m11]

I've made an attempt to search around online but I'm having some trouble finding an answer to my upcoming question.

I'm a new rider (a few weeks on my 09 250 but a dozen or so thousand miles of street experience on a scoot) and I've been becoming more comfortable with only using a finger or two to manipulate the hand controls.

I have no problem fitting my pinkie and ring fingers under the lever on the throttle side in essentially all situations-- i.e. I can operate the front brake with one or two fingers without any obstruction.

However, I cannot launch from a standstill or come to a complete stop without wrapping (at least) three fingers around the clutch lever. It feels as though I do not have enough clearance between my fingers that are wrapped around the left handlebar and the underside of the clutch lever in order to fully disengage the clutch.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the mechanics of the clutch? Do I just need to get slightly "behind" the friction zone (i.e. the clutch isn't fully disengaged as if I were trying to touch the lever to the handlebar, just mostly disengaged...enough that the bike isn't moving)? Even if that were the case, it seems very uncomfortable to be holding onto the clutch and having the rest of my hand squeezed up between the lever and the bar.

I've been learning to get a touch more aggressive with the launch (perhaps 5-6k RPMs as opposed to 3k) and it feels that I cannot engage the clutch quick enough because I need to get a few extra fingers out of the way. I'd imagine that I would be much better served just holding onto the clutch with a finger or two.

Additionally, while shifting, I can only use two fingers on the clutch lever but it still seems more comfortable to use four fingers, especially during downshifting.

There is no issue doing so on the throttle side.

Any ideas? The pertinent components are all stock. For what it's worth, I also wear Teknic Xcelerator gloves.

[setasai]

After a while, you develop stronger muscles for those 2 fingers and you'll get used to it. With 4 fingers, you end up squeezing it too much and end up slowing down your clutch control since it takes longer to get to the friction zone. With 2 fingers, the 2 gripped under the handle serve as spacers. It is really close to the friction zone though. If you feel like you want more adjustments you can get new levers. Also, check the clutch lever freeplay too. It might be a little loose.

[kevlarorc]

you could try shorty levers

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by kevlarorc

you could try shorty levers

A good suggestion. My last bike had shorty levers and it was easy to use 2 fingers. Now that I'm back to stock levers on a smaller bike, I can't fully engage the clutch side lever using 2 fingers without the other fingers getting in the way -- same exact problem as you. I adjusted the freeplay to tighten the clutch a bit, and it is still awkward. I don't know if is fat fingers or just how this setup works, but it just doesn't work for me on the ninjette.

I've given up on it and figure it is safer to feel natural and comfortable, and make sure I fully engage the clutch. May be a bit slower, but I'm happy enough with my shifts using three or (gasp) four fingers.

[JeffM]

I use all my fingers on the clutch lever at a stop then go to two fingers the rest of the time - shifting and friction zone control.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

A good suggestion. My last bike had shorty levers and it was easy to use 2 fingers. Now that I'm back to stock levers on a smaller bike, I can't fully engage the clutch side lever using 2 fingers without the other fingers getting in the way -- same exact problem as you. I adjusted the freeplay to tighten the clutch a bit, and it is still awkward. I don't know if is fat fingers or just how this setup works, but it just doesn't work for me on the ninjette.

I've given up on it and figure it is safer to feel natural and comfortable, and make sure I fully engage the clutch. May be a bit slower, but I'm happy enough with my shifts using three or (gasp) four fingers.

I just went for a nice long ride today and focused on this a bit, shifting two fingers only. The issue is that my shortish, fatish fingers (no comments from the ladies about the implications of that, which I deny) pull the others off the grip when I reach for the clutch lever. This puts my ring finger slightly in the way of clutch engagement, and gave me a little mark on my finger from the clutch lever nicking it the whole ride.

So I thinks its a short, inflexible finger thing. Using three fingers solves this for me, but adustible levers would definately do the trick also.

[fujimumu]

Why not use all four fingers?

[m11]

Originally Posted by fujimumu

Why not use all four fingers?

It feels as though using four fingers is relatively inefficient compared to using fewer fingers.

While launching from a stop, it seems that I can fully engage the clutch much quicker using two fingers compared to four.

The issue is that I cannot fully disengage the clutch with two fingers because my pinkie and ring finger are in the way. Perhaps I can pull the lever in enough to just dissengage the clutch and hold the lever against my two outer fingers but it feels as though I'm too close to the friction zone and that I'm unnecessarily riding the clutch when I'm at a stop.

[Sailariel]

I have the power in my hands to use only one finger. The problem is that my hands are too big. I have a devil of a time finding gloves that fit. The most comfortable gloves are H-D gloves XXXL.

[JMcDonald]

I spent 10 years of my life using all four fingers on the clutch with dirtbikes, and it feels completely alien to try to use two. I had to get into the habit of using two over the front brake (as opposed to none), but I almost can't stand using two on the clutch. Indeed, a big problem is how weird it feels to pinch my ring and pinky fingers under the lever when squeezing the clutch, and I do wonder if shorty levers might solve that.

[m11]

In terms of general operation, using four fingers really isn't issue. There's just a bit of a lag between when the light turns green and when I actually take off. I'm sure this is partially due to me being a new rider with underdeveloped skills but I also think that having to unwrap four fingers, as opposed to two fingers, is part of the issue.

To reiterate, I get by fine on the street but I'd prefer to develop good habits that'll allow me to ultimately be quicker.

On my scoot (163cc), it's just a twist of the wrist and I take off relatively quickly. I'd like to get rid of that little delay that occurs as I engage the clutch and start to give throttle.

I suppose I'd get better with practice (using four fingers) but I'd imagine that learning to use two fingers will shorten the learning process.

[Yasko]

Keeping two on the front break at all time is my big focus right now...

[JMcDonald]

The only delay I notice is when shifting, I know I habitually squeeze the clutch lever much further than necessary. So, it really only affects how quickly I can typically shift. But, since Im not a drag racer, an extra few tenths of a second doesn't bother me, especially when I am also pretty good at clutchless shifting anyways (which I don't realy do anymore).

However I have developed pretty decent braking contrl with just two fingers, and actually never use 4 fingers anymore even for scares. I'd like to be able to use two fingers just to develop the additional control (having two fingers wrapped around the left grip, rather than just the thumb, will help a bit with handling while still keeping the clutch covered). Just an extra skill that, while obviously not necessarily, will just ultimately allow me to have more spontaneous control over the bike.

[m11]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

The only delay I notice is when shifting

For the most part, I can shift with using only two fingers. My issue is mostly related to stopping completely and starting. When I'm coming to a stop, I feels as though I cannot disengage the clutch enough to actually stop the bike -- it feels that I'm always "knocking on the door" of the friction zone due to having a few fingers between the bar and the lever.

When starting, it feels like I need to make a "rolling start" off a couple feet before actually taking off. I'd essentially like to get moving quicker. To reiterate, perhaps this is a matter of skill development but I'd imagine that fewer fingers lends to a quicker takeoff.

I'm not necessarily referring to drag-type takeoffs but I'd like to be able to get moving on my bike quicker than I do on my scoot

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

Just an extra skill that, while obviously not necessarily, will just ultimately allow me to have more spontaneous control over the bike.

That's the idea I'm getting at.

[JeffM]

Is your clutch lever adjusted correctly?

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Adjusting_the_clutch_cable

[m11]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Is your clutch lever adjusted correctly?

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Adjusting_the_clutch_cable

I'll have to take a look, thanks.

[m11]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Is your clutch lever adjusted correctly?

It appears to be just under 3mm (within the 2-3mm recommendation).

[JMcDonald]

Originally Posted by m11

For the most part, I can shift with using only two fingers. My issue is mostly related to stopping completely and starting. When I'm coming to a stop, I feels as though I cannot disengage the clutch enough to actually stop the bike -- it feels that I'm always "knocking on the door" of the friction zone due to having a few fingers between the bar and the lever.

That's exactly where I'm at! it just feels wheels to squeeze the lever against my fingers at stops. I am really thinking about going with shorty levers.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by m11

When starting, it feels like I need to make a "rolling start" off a couple feet before actually taking off. I'd essentially like to get moving quicker. To reiterate, perhaps this is a matter of skill development but I'd imagine that fewer fingers lends to a quicker takeoff.

That sounds more like a power/throttle control issue. Have you rejetted or shimmed the carbs yet? Personally, I found that stock jetting is so lean that the throttle really needs to be at 5k+ rpms before there is enough power to get started.

Try giving the bike more throttle at the same time you let the clutch out into the friction zone. This allows you to release the clutch a little faster and get moving right away.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by m11

...The issue is that I cannot fully disengage the clutch with two fingers because my pinkie and ring finger are in the way. Perhaps I can pull the lever in enough to just dissengage the clutch and hold the lever against my two outer fingers but it feels as though I'm too close to the friction zone and that I'm unnecessarily riding the clutch when I'm at a stop.

My suggestion would be to find the exact position the clutch levers engages, then train yourself to feel when the clutch is engaged/disengaed. Do not worry about how close you are to the friction zone. With the stock levers, the levers can be just off the tops of your fingers, if you 2 finger it. But honestly, if you prefer to use two fingers all the time, a set of adjustable shorty levers will make a world of difference. The travel of the shorty adjustable lever when taking off, is shortened a little so your fingers do not have to move as far. My shifts are much smoother and quicker with my adjustable levers. Shifting almost feels like a tap on the lever instead of a full squeeze.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

I spent 10 years of my life using all four fingers on the clutch with dirtbikes, and it feels completely alien to try to use two. I had to get into the habit of using two over the front brake (as opposed to none), but I almost can't stand using two on the clutch. Indeed, a big problem is how weird it feels to pinch my ring and pinky fingers under the lever when squeezing the clutch, and I do wonder if shorty levers might solve that.

Riding dirt bikes and racing mx trained me to use 2 fingers on the brake and 2 on the clutch. Charging through the bumps requires as many fingers as possible gripping the bars, but you still have to work the clutch (125 2 stroke, or 250 4 stroke) to keep the bike in the powerband. On the bigger bikes (250/500 2 stroke or 450 4 stroke) you typically run a gear higher to mellow out the power delivery but use the clutch when needed for keeping the revs up (of course shifting also). Catch speed tv or CBS now that the 2011 SX series is running. Most dirt bike levers are of hthe dogleg - 2 finger variety.

Of course MSF instructor kept telling me to use all 4 fingers on brake and clutch and never put them on the lever unless going to use the lever. Rather than argue with him and distract from the class I obliged. Like to see him grab 4 fingers on the front brake of a 1198 Duc.

[JMcDonald]

Oh yeah, I know 2-fingers is still universally more proper. I only meant to say after having developed that (admittedly incorrect) habit for so long, it's hard to break it :P .

[fujimumu]

Originally Posted by m11

For the most part, I can shift with using only two fingers. My issue is mostly related to stopping completely and starting. When I'm coming to a stop, I feels as though I cannot disengage the clutch enough to actually stop the bike -- it feels that I'm always "knocking on the door" of the friction zone due to having a few fingers between the bar and the lever.

When starting, it feels like I need to make a "rolling start" off a couple feet before actually taking off. I'd essentially like to get moving quicker. To reiterate, perhaps this is a matter of skill development but I'd imagine that fewer fingers lends to a quicker takeoff.

I'm not necessarily referring to drag-type takeoffs but I'd like to be able to get moving on my bike quicker than I do on my scoot



That's the idea I'm getting at.

I don't understand how you can't open your hand as quickly with four fingers on the clutch lever as opposed to two...not to be rude, but it seems to me that your "launch issue" is really a matter of opening your hand more quickly rather than using less fingers.

What RPM do you have the engine revving at when you release the clutch?
I bet if you revved a bit higher before you get into the friction zone your launch would be quicker.

As for your inability to completely disengage the clutch, just use four fingers to completely pull in the clutch lever.

If you're worrying about this kind of stuff while riding your mind isn't where it should be.
But if its just too dang hard to use your whole hand to pull a lever, then get shorter levers so your other fingers aren't in the way.

You don't need to use all your fingers for every shift, but if its giving you trouble while using just two on your stops and starts, I'd say the easiest solution is to just use your other two fingers.

[m11]

I'm just reporting back after a few days of observation:


Basically, dropping the clutch a little faster seems to do the trick (alluding to what fujimumu said). In my first few days of riding in traffic, my only worry was stalling at a traffic light. This caused me to let out the clutch pretty slowly which obviously resulted in not delivering power as quickly as I would've liked.

Also, I'm still going with the four fingers on the clutch to stop and start.

Originally Posted by m11

On my scoot (163cc), it's just a twist of the wrist and I take off relatively quickly. I'd like to get rid of that little delay that occurs as I engage the clutch and start to give throttle..

Just a comment but that little delay might save your life. Use that time to be double checking, yes checking for a second time that all is clear and no one is running the light!

[demp]

Originally Posted by Kipawa

Just a comment but that little delay might save your life. Use that time to be double checking, yes checking for a second time that all is clear and no one is running the light!

That delay has already proven to have saved mine, but as far as 2 fingers vs 4, I don't understand the need to use fewer fingers? Can't you just apply less pressure with 4? *shrugs*

I find myself using all 4 at a stop due to the weight of the clutch, and then using 2 when i need to shift

[rockNroll]

I brake with two fingers, index and middle.

I clutch with three fingers from a stop, keeping my index finger and thumb wrapped around the grip. I usually have the clutch lever pulled back against the back of my index finger. I clutch with three fingers in motion but with the index finger loose, over the lever. I felt more secure and had better clutch control on my launches and it just became they way I do it.

[tsiratiug]

At MSF, we were instructed to use all four fingers and to never hover over the brake lever. We were called out on it if he saw anyone 2 fingering or hovering. We were allowed to keep fingers over the clutch lever.

I guess it stuck because I never hover over the brake lever and I use all for fingers on both levers all the time. I haven't noticed a downside but, I'm still new enough to not know any better if there were a downside.

[Animal78]

I hold the brake with 2 fingers. I can do the clutch with 2 but squishing my fingers sux LOL. I just ordered shorty levers that should help alot. I can adjust the distance they are from the bars and operate them without squishing my fingers. I actually will probably get three fingers on the clutch lever nice having long skinny fingers. Adjusting the cable is paramount though.

Also something not everyone thinks about is adjusting the position of the gear shift lever. Each rider is different and they set most of them all the same position. It takes sometime to get it right but worth it.

[TenaciousD]

Just my personal observation but I always use 4 fingers on the clutch and two on the brake. I can't see any benefit to using two on the clutch. Two on the brake I can see the reason for - if you're on a bike with very powerful brakes four may be too much pressure. Whatever works, though. We all have our own way of doing things.

[ithaca00]

You can adjust the lever to adjust the catch point for the clutch. I hate riding bikes that are setup such that for a full clutch disengagement you need to pull the lever all the way back to the handlebar.

[m11]

To be taken with a grain of salt, I'll mention that I was watching one of those documentaries that feature Vale Rossi and when they put the camera on his fingers, I noticed that he manipulates the clutch with all three/four fingers.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by tsiratiug

At MSF, we were instructed to use all four fingers and to never hover over the brake lever. We were called out on it if he saw anyone 2 fingering or hovering. We were allowed to keep fingers over the clutch lever.

I guess it stuck because I never hover over the brake lever and I use all for fingers on both levers all the time. I haven't noticed a downside but, I'm still new enough to not know any better if there were a downside.

Same here at the MSF. I typically use 2 fingers on each lever but adapted at MSF classes. Maybe the instructors in RI are too used to the drum brake of the nighthawk 250.