Should I continue MSF?

[Sigma.40]

I signed up and paid for MSF Basic Rider Course in early February, but then decided to get my endorsement through the Secretary of State (DMV) in the middle of February. I spent ALOT of time practicing before I went on the road and now have well over 1000 miles of (very cold) actual on road riding. I am very comfortable with my skills in various conditions (traffic, hazards, rain, curves/turns). Today was the 1st day of the MSF course that I signed up for.

My question is: I just spent the LONGEST 3.5 hours of my life listening to the instructor talk about clutch levers, friction zones, shift patterns, staying out of blind spots, etc... all stuff I am aware of and use on a regular basis (every "hazard avoidance" technique they talked about, I realized that I've been doing it all along). Is there a reason for me to continue to go for 6 hours tomorrow and 4 hours on Sunday. Is it worth me finding someone to watch my daughter and riding the hour out there twice?

[sombo]

Yes, I would still take the MSF. It is totally worth it.

[C L]

Insurance discount too

[Sigma.40]

During the riding portion, do they go into more than just slow turns, uturns, hard braking and swerving?

[Sigma.40]

Originally Posted by sombo

Yes, I would still take the MSF. It is totally worth it.

Is there maybe a slightly more advanced version that goes into higher speed (highway speeds 55-70 mph) techniques?

Originally Posted by C L

Insurance discount too

Its like $10

[sombo]

There is an advanced version, but the last time I checked they required you to have first taken the beginner course. I could be wrong on that one. Also, when I had looked at the advanced course it wasn't involving speed so much as control with your own bike instead of theirs (IE making you capable of doing the slalom with one hand - at least that's what the course claimed at one time).

The beginner class will help make sure you are doing all those things correctly. You never know, you could be thinking you are doing them right but might not be. Plus it's good reinforcement within a controlled environment.

[Dano]

i took it twice about 10 yrs between them good refresher and u will have endorsementvwhen done

[akshay11]

I got my bike a month before the MSF and had 500 miles on the bike.. 400 of them out in traffic before the course.. The course bored me to death.. I did pick up a few little minor things from the course but overall, the ONLY reason I went ahead with the course was to get the endorsement and for the insurance... I already paid a year of insurance and they gave me the discount in advance and just said to give them a copy of the completion card when I finished the MSF.. Plus I had already paid for the MSF so it was whatever.

[Alex]

/moved to riding skills

I'd complete the course. I think you might be surprised at what you pick up during the range session.

[gfloyd2002]

When I returned to California in 2010 after living out of the country for a number of years, I found myself without a valid motorcycle endorsement. (Stupid California didn't recognize my Chinese motorcycle license.) So despite riding a motorcycle every day since 2005, plus on and off for years before that, I had the choice of either taking the MSF basic course or taking the riding test at the DMV.

I chose the MSF course, figuring that it might be a useful refresher. The classroom section was painfully boring. And a large part of the range work was too basic review of stuff I already did and knew well. But I did pick up a few little things that made it worthwhile. Dragging the rear brake during low speed manoeuvres was something I hadn't done - silly I know, but it helps. I also hadn't been in the habit of reaching across and applying the front brake as I got on the bike, instead just using the handle bars. I think that was all I got out of it.

Still very much worth it. Think of it like soccer or football practice. Yes, you know how to tackle and have done it lots before. But you do it in practice anyway. It keeps you grounded in the fundamentals. Sometimes boring, but good to reinforce what you know is right and keep bad habits from forming. And if you go in with the right attitude, you might be able to pick up a few little tidbits.

(I should note that two of the other guys in my class were experienced riders. One rode a 600rr, one a vintage harley, both had over 100k miles under their belts and were forced into the class because of run ins with the highway patrol. Both had serious technical flaws that showed up in the course. The 600rr guy fixed them and, bored as he was most of the time, came out a better rider. The Harley guy, who was getting on the bike from the wrong side, hated gear, and continuously griped about how he was too good for the basic course didn't. He ended up passing (the instructor wiped out on S turns and in embarrassment passed the whole class), but shouldn't have. Point being, there is always something to learn.)

[Sigma.40]

@gfloyd2002 - I'm the only one with an endorsement in the class. The instructors acted like they didn't know why I was there. Based on the almost unanimous opinion from people here I am going to go for at least today to see if I can pick anything up. As I said I already have my cycle endorsement and I don't care about the insurance discount so I'm just there to see if I can learn anything new. And Sombo actually had a good point, while I am 99% sure that I am doing everything pretty well, I wouldn't mind making sure of that.

-I always feather the rear brake during slow speed stuff, helps keep you stable :P.

[Trash Can Man]

I started riding in 1976, they didn't even have a MSF course then. I took it a couple of years ago for kicks and grins. The class work was kind of boring, the riding part was kind of meh, the biggest kick I got was the reaction from the instructors when I showed up to class on a Concours.

[ator]

Originally Posted by sombo

There is an advanced version, but the last time I checked they required you to have first taken the beginner course. I could be wrong on that one. Also, when I had looked at the advanced course it wasn't involving speed so much as control with your own bike instead of theirs (IE making you capable of doing the slalom with one hand - at least that's what the course claimed at one time).

The beginner class will help make sure you are doing all those things correctly. You never know, you could be thinking you are doing them right but might not be. Plus it's good reinforcement within a controlled environment.

Here in Michigan all you need is a cycle endorsement and your own bike to take the advanced course.

I have signed up for in in May, I'll do a write up on it after.

But as all have said, I would continue with the the beginner course .

[Sigma.40]

Originally Posted by Trash Can Man

I started riding in 1976, they didn't even have a MSF course then. I took it a couple of years ago for kicks and grins. The class work was kind of boring, the riding part was kind of meh, the biggest kick I got was the reaction from the instructors when I showed up to class on a Concours.

Yeah, I am riding there today. I expect to get looks and expressions of jealousy (just kidding-sort of). The classroom part was pretty boring. I'm guessing the riding part will be better only in that it will involve actual motorcycles. I'm not trying to say that I've mastered motorcycles, I just wish that there was an in between course between beginners and advanced. I don't need to spend 2 hours learning where the clutch, shift lever and throttle are and how to use them. Nor do I want to spend an hour learning about the friction zone as I use it well frequently.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by ator

Here in Michigan all you need is a cycle endorsement and your own bike to take the advanced course.

I have signed up for in in May, I'll do a write up on it after.

But as all have said, I would continue with the the beginner course .

Hehehe, well that was info based on what I remembered from the PA courses back in 2008. So it's bound to not be 100% accurate for everywhere or up to date.

[ator]

Originally Posted by sombo

Hehehe, well that was info based on what I remembered from the PA courses back in 2008. So it's bound to not be 100% accurate for everywhere or up to date.

Could've been true here as well. But, I never took the beginner course (took my road test at SOS 21 years ago) and I signed up for the "Advanced Rider Course" for May

[adouglas]

The range session is much more engaging than the classroom and definitely worth it. You'll be bored for the first part (friction zone, etc. etc.) but a number of the skill drills in the afternoon are surprisingly challenging.

If you find yourself getting frustrated, just challenge yourself to ABSOLUTELY NAIL all those skill drills, inch-perfect, from the get-go.

Bet you can't. Weaving at low speed through cones without touching any or wanting to put a toe dow is astonishingly difficult.

Then there's the infamous figure-8….

I promise you'll learn something, and as my ol' pappy used to say, any day you learn something new, is a day not wasted.

Before I bought my current bike I'd been away from riding for over 10 years, so even though I had my endorsement and a lot of riding time I decided a refresher was in order. I did the MSF course and thought of it as refresher training. Had a ball, because I approached it with a positive attitude.

The fact that there were two girls in the class who looked GREAT astride a motorcycle helped.

[Sailariel]

I take the one day advanced course every spring. Good way to start the season. Been riding since 1958.

[Sigma.40]

Well, the riding section wasn't as bad as the classroom. I didn't actually learn anything that I didn't already know, but, I met a couple cool people.

There was an old lady and her granddaughter taking the course. The grandma wrecked her bike 3 times in the 1st 1 1/2 hours and was told to leave after the bike became unrideable. The granddaughter crashed 3 times throughout the entire day. No one was hurt, so I can respectfully say it was quite amusing.

[Kristofferzero]

Might as well, you already paid for it. And who knows, you may learn that tiny bit of information that will save you later on.

When I took the course the instructors recommended taking it again every 5 years or so if I remember correctly.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Sigma.40

There was an old lady and her granddaughter taking the course. The grandma wrecked her bike 3 times in the 1st 1 1/2 hours and was told to leave after the bike became unrideable. The granddaughter crashed 3 times throughout the entire day. No one was hurt, so I can respectfully say it was quite amusing.

Some people just should not be on two wheels, and this is how you filter them out.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Then there's the infamous figure-8….

I hated the Box. The only time I didn't blow it was for the actual test. I even had extra time to practice it and blew it every time. I don't think I can do it on the Ninja at all, and I've got 40K under the belt since then.

[ally99]

Totally worth it! Stick it out!

[Sigma.40]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I hated the Box. The only time I didn't blow it was for the actual test. I even had extra time to practice it and blew it every time. I don't think I can do it on the Ninja at all, and I've got 40K under the belt since then.

I had no problems with it, I had it with the MSF bike (tu250x) and then I did it great with my Ninja. I just varied pressure with the rear brake and, like they said, looked where I wanted to go.

Originally Posted by ally99

Totally worth it! Stick it out!

It really wasn't. Now after having done it, I realize that it was a complete waste of my weekend. As Sombo had mentioned, all it did for me was affirm that everything I am doing is correct. I know nothing more now than I did before MSF.


EDIT- This is not at all to say that MSF is a bad course. I highly recommend people take it if they are not extremely confident in their skills on a motorcycle. It just wasn't for me. I was meticulous in my training and I absolutely don't want to turn people off of MSF who need or want to take it.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I hated the Box. The only time I didn't blow it was for the actual test. I even had extra time to practice it and blew it every time. I don't think I can do it on the Ninja at all, and I've got 40K under the belt since then.

That right there is the best reason to take the course even if you're experienced. It tells you what you do and do not actually know.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Sigma.40

It really wasn't. Now after having done it, I realize that it was a complete waste of my weekend. As Sombo had mentioned, all it did for me was affirm that everything I am doing is correct. I know nothing more now than I did before MSF.

Guess you already know it all then. Good luck.

PS. There is something to be learned in every experience.

[Sigma.40]

Originally Posted by ally99

Guess you already know it all then. Good luck.

PS. There is something to be learned in every experience.

Never said I know it all, just knew everything they taught in the BASIC rider course. It gave me practice, yes, but that practice wasn't worth my weekend and 3 separate trips to a town an hour away. I could have done that at home.

-As I wrote earlier, I would definitely not be opposed to a more advanced class. I am always open to learn more. Unfortunately, they do not seem to offer it in my area and travelling out of town for it is pretty much impossible right now.

[Renner]

Originally Posted by Sigma.40

Never said I know it all, just knew everything they taught in the BASIC rider course. It gave me practice, yes, but that practice wasn't worth my weekend and 3 separate trips to a town an hour away. I could have done that at home.

-As I wrote earlier, I would definitely not be opposed to a more advanced class. I am always open to learn more. Unfortunately, they do not seem to offer it in my area and travelling out of town for it is pretty much impossible right now.

I agree with you...there should be a in between class also that doesn't baby step you.

[Sigma.40]

Originally Posted by Renner

I agree with you...there should be a in between class also that doesn't baby step you.

Thank you. I could have learned spent that time learning so much more.

[CZroe]

I *highly* doubt that the instructors were asking themselves why you were there. They should be seeing licensed riders there often, even if you were the only one in that class.

[Sigma.40]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I *highly* doubt that the instructors were asking themselves why you were there. They should be seeing licensed riders there often, even if you were the only one in that class.

And I *highly* don't care if you doubt it. I never said they were asking why I was there. I said they ACTED like they didn't know why I was taking the course. I could have read their reactions and expressions wrong. Anyway, I went, completed it and passed with flying colors. Not sure why this thread is still going.

[TylersEM2]

Originally Posted by Sigma.40

And I *highly* don't care if you doubt it. I never said they were asking why I was there. I said they ACTED like they didn't know why I was taking the course. I could have read their reactions and expressions wrong. Anyway, I went, completed it and passed with flying colors. Not sure why this thread is still going.

You should really try to be more humble in your ways of communicating.

[Sigma.40]

Originally Posted by TylersEM2

You should really try to be more humble in your ways of communicating.

Why? I haven't written anything offensive. If someone is THAT thin-skinned that they found something to be offended by in this thread, they should probably not be online, or in public...or anywhere that involves other life-forms for that matter.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Sigma.40

Why? I haven't written anything offensive. If someone is THAT thin-skinned that they found something to be offended by in this thread, they should probably not be online, or in public...or anywhere that involves other life-forms for that matter.

It's not about being offensive or "thin-skinned". It's how your attitude is projecting online. Your posts are making you sound like you have a superiority complex. I'm not saying you do, cause I don't know you other than this thread. It's just in your posts you come across that way even if you don't mean to or think you do. That's what is meant by being more humble. As in to say something more like "well I felt I didn't really learn anything new, but was good to practice and know that I was doing it right all along"; instead of "well that was a good waste of time and money since I knew everything from the start". See the difference? It's just some friendly advice is all. Don't take it the wrong way and think we are offended or anything.

[csmith12]

I took the course and felt "somewhat" like you during the course (rode cruisers for about 18yrs). In hindsight, I learned I had developed some lazy habits and some bad ones. I made the best use of my time there by asking questions that others might have been afraid to ask, taking the time to further improve upon my personal best and offering to go first to provide a second example on how to perform a drill.

Look yo.... We are cool with your take on the class. In most states it's designed for the success of soon to be riders that have never been on a bike before. It's your time and it's what you make of it. Sombo used the word humble, but I wouldn't. I would use honesty instead. Did you honestly not learn or improve upon on one thing? I use my time wisely. ijs....

I offer this as a final thought.... Is time spent on a bike ever wasted time?

[sombo]

I only used the word humble because of the post they had responded to in the first place. It was just meant to hopefully explain why someone would suggest being more humble was all.

[Sigma.40]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I offer this as a final thought.... Is time spent on a bike ever wasted time?

No there were worse things that I could have been doing. But time on a bike, for me, would be better spent at 55+ in the curves. As every time I ride I push myself a little harder and learn something new. I can honestly say I did not learn anything new from the course. Like I mentioned earlier, it did show me that I was doing things correctly and showed me that the things I did and the many hours I spent to learn how to ride were well planned and well spent, as I taught myself without help from people other than on Youtube.

-I am not trying to offend people and I am not trying to bash MSF. I think that MSF is a great course for people that have no idea or little idea of how to ride. If someone knows how to ride and they want to take the BRC, thats fine too. It does teach the basics well. But for people who have the basics down and are comfortable on a bike, I think their time would be better spent in the Advanced Rider Course or maybe that Total Control course I read about somewhere.

[csmith12]

Well hellz yea then...

What is your goad in riding and your plan for taking it to the next level? You seem to like the twisties. The Total Control class seems like the logical step before a track day but not all track day orgs are the same. The track school at mid-ohio (just some odd hours south of you) would be similar to the Total Control class. Very structured and planned out like CSS and costs way less. I offer that up as an alternative to the courses that are in a large parking lot vs. a closed road course. You will also get a few sessions of raw track time included. Food for thought.

[Sigma.40]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Well hellz yea then...

What is your goad in riding and your plan for taking it to the next level? You seem to like the twisties. The Total Control class seems like the logical step before a track day but not all track day orgs are the same. The track school at mid-ohio (just some odd hours south of you) would be similar to the Total Control class. Very structured and planned out like CSS and costs way less. I offer that up as an alternative to the courses that are in a large parking lot vs. a closed road course. You will also get a few sessions of raw track time included. Food for thought.

I don't really have a goal, man. One minute I'm going 100+ down a backcountry road, the next I'm trying the twisties as fast as I can and after that I'm going 20 under the speed limit soaking in the sights around me. I never seem to know what each non-destination ride is going to bring until I am doing it. I'll check out that class in Ohio.