Just took my bike out for a first spin. Review and questions.

[farabeejunior]

The bike is a 2008 250r. I also just got my M1 (as in, just two weeks ago) so I'm a pretty big noob.

My idle RPM is around 12-1300 rpm. The Nighthawk I used in my MSF class had a friction zone that started when the clutch was about halfway out. This Ninja's friction zone starts with the clutch about 80-85% out. That threw me off and starting from a stop was difficult. I took it out for about an hour and I believe I stalled about 10 out of the 15 times I was trying to get moving from a complete stop. The MSF course bike, I could slowly let go of the clutch without feeding any throttle and it would still start to coast. I got used to doing that first to get the bike moving before starting to open the throttle. I guess I can't quite do that on the Ninja.... I'm going to need more practice with the friction zone and start/stop drills.

1. Maybe I'm overthinking this but I might as well ask. What's the proper combination of braking and downshifting? I was a bit nervous today as it was my first road ride. In situations where I needed to slow down just a little bit, I just eased off the throttle to engine brake, then adjusted the throttle to keep at an appropriate speed and did not use the front/rear brakes. In a stop sign situation when I know I need to come to a complete stop, I pulled the clutch in, dumped all the gear down to first, and coasted to the stop sign as I slowed myself down with the brakes. The tricky part was red traffic lights. I see one ahead and I anticipate possibly having to come to a complete stop. But if it turns green while I'm slowing down, I want to be able to start accelerating again. What I envision is like this. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

Ease off the throttle and let it engine brake -> Start using the front/rear brakes to slow down more as needed -> Once speed is decreased enough, shift down to next lower gear -> Continue using brakes to slow down -> Never at any point have to clutch pulled all the way in except to downshift -> If I do have to completely stop, then downshift into first.

2. I start the engine in neutral. I pull the clutch in completely and put it into first. It gives me a slight lurch forward as it gets into gear. Is this normal?

3. A lot of videos I've seen, the driver will release the clutch almost immediately after upshifting. Doing this on my bike gives it a little jerk. I stopped doing this and instead, after upshifting, I started to give a little throttle while I let go of the clutch - kinda like starting from a stop but not as gentle. Are those guys so smooth that I didn't catch what they were doing and wrongly assumed that they just snap-released the clutch when upshifting?

4. I was going at about 30mph at I think around 4000 rpm. Probably third gear? Can't remember exactly. Anyway, I was going constantly at 30mph with a steady throttle on a flat asphalt road. Then suddenly I felt this jolt of acceleration. I didn't shift or change anything with the throttle. The rpm just went up and the bike went faster. I reacted by easing on the throttle to bring it back down to speed. How did that happen?

Thanks, I know it's a lot of questions...

[tfkrocks]

This thread might be helpful:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=474224

[Linkin]

Originally Posted by farabeejunior

The bike is a 2008 250r. I also just got my M1 (as in, just two weeks ago) so I'm a pretty big noob.

My idle RPM is around 12-1300 rpm. The Nighthawk I used in my MSF class had a friction zone that started when the clutch was about halfway out. This Ninja's friction zone starts with the clutch about 80-85% out. That threw me off and starting from a stop was difficult. I took it out for about an hour and I believe I stalled about 10 out of the 15 times I was trying to get moving from a complete stop. The MSF course bike, I could slowly let go of the clutch without feeding any throttle and it would still start to coast. I got used to doing that first to get the bike moving before starting to open the throttle. I guess I can't quite do that on the Ninja.... I'm going to need more practice with the friction zone and start/stop drills.

1. Maybe I'm overthinking this but I might as well ask. What's the proper combination of braking and downshifting? I was a bit nervous today as it was my first road ride. In situations where I needed to slow down just a little bit, I just eased off the throttle to engine brake, then adjusted the throttle to keep at an appropriate speed and did not use the front/rear brakes. In a stop sign situation when I know I need to come to a complete stop, I pulled the clutch in, dumped all the gear down to first, and coasted to the stop sign as I slowed myself down with the brakes. The tricky part was red traffic lights. I see one ahead and I anticipate possibly having to come to a complete stop. But if it turns green while I'm slowing down, I want to be able to start accelerating again. What I envision is like this. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

Ease off the throttle and let it engine brake -> Start using the front/rear brakes to slow down more as needed -> Once speed is decreased enough, shift down to next lower gear -> Continue using brakes to slow down -> Never at any point have to clutch pulled all the way in except to downshift -> If I do have to completely stop, then downshift into first.

2. I start the engine in neutral. I pull the clutch in completely and put it into first. It gives me a slight lurch forward as it gets into gear. Is this normal?

3. A lot of videos I've seen, the driver will release the clutch almost immediately after upshifting. Doing this on my bike gives it a little jerk. I stopped doing this and instead, after upshifting, I started to give a little throttle while I let go of the clutch - kinda like starting from a stop but not as gentle. Are those guys so smooth that I didn't catch what they were doing and wrongly assumed that they just snap-released the clutch when upshifting?

4. I was going at about 30mph at I think around 4000 rpm. Probably third gear? Can't remember exactly. Anyway, I was going constantly at 30mph with a steady throttle on a flat asphalt road. Then suddenly I felt this jolt of acceleration. I didn't shift or change anything with the throttle. The rpm just went up and the bike went faster. I reacted by easing on the throttle to bring it back down to speed. How did that happen?

Thanks, I know it's a lot of questions...

1) Be in a gear that is appropriate for the bike's speed. So that if you have to, or accidentally, dump the clutch, it won't spin the rear wheel (and YES it is possible to do it on the ninja)

2) Yes this is normal. If you want you can leave the bike in first (putting the stand down will cut the engine). You should start with the clutch in anyway, even in neutral

3) Release the clutch smoothly, don't dump it. You need to know the friction point. Release the clutch to the friction point as quickly as possible, and do the rest smoothly.

4) Sounds like you didn't shift properly and slipped down a gear. Did you hear a clunk? To shift properly, keep your boot holding the shifter in place until you fully release the clutch, and apply throttle after releasing the clutch. This way it's smooth

Throttle off, clutch in (almost at the same time), shift up (as soon as the clutch is in), release clutch and apply throttle as one motion.

Practice will make you better at shifting. You can do it properly without thinking but you will need to concentrate to shift quickly & properly

[cadd]

Originally Posted by farabeejunior

Ease off the throttle and let it engine brake -> Start using the front/rear brakes to slow down more as needed -> Once speed is decreased enough, shift down to next lower gear -> Continue using brakes to slow down -> Never at any point have to clutch pulled all the way in except to downshift -> If I do have to completely stop, then downshift into first.

Sounds correct to me. Here's a poll that shows how other members of this forum do it.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196081

[Hero Danny]

I like the friction zones on these ninjas. It threw me off when I took the MSF course I was used to the friction zone being all the way out, and because of that I kept stalling the bike (like 4 times total) and it made me look like a noob even though I was easily the best one there.

As for down shifting, I practiced down shifting in a parking lot for a long time before I felt comfortable using it on the streets. Don't worry too much, some times I only down shift to 2nd and then I pull in the clutch and brake to stop and then shift to first (with clutch still pulled in) as I wait at my stop sign/light w/e.

Try not to over think things too much, Just practice. Take it easy stay with environments that are comfortable. Riding became second nature to me, I tried to have people explain counter steering and engine braking, blah blah blah and all it did was make me nervous and distracted me too much and made it more dangerous. Don't worry about the logistics of riding, go out there and stay in a safe place until you learn your bike better. Once you do that you can worry about increasing your skills.

As a new rider it's easy to overwhelm yourself, Don't.

[M42]

Everyone already answered your questions, but I have one of my own:

Originally Posted by farabeejunior

after upshifting, I started to give a little throttle while I let go of the clutch

This makes it sound like you aren't giving the bike any throttle at while letting go of the clutch in the first place. The proper way is throttle off/clutch in at the same time, upshift, throttle on/clutch out at the same time, so as you're releasing the clutch you should be throttling on. If you're not doing that, that's why you're getting a jerk.

Anyways, just to go out and ride, you're overthinking things. Thinking up literal paragraphs of questions after, or possibly during, your first ride is going to overwhelm and confuse you. Find a parking lot. Experiment varying how quickly you apply the throttle after an upshift. Experiment with letting out the clutch super slow while downshifting and slowing down. Redo all your msf exercises, because god knows you really don't spend enough time doing those on the course.


Also yeah, my msf rebel had a friction zone that went on for dayyyyys. Like on the 1-5 measurement, it was from 2-4. The ninjette's is tiny, like 4-4.5. Most sporty bikes are like that, and it's a good thing the msf bikes aren't - imagine trying to learn feathering the clutch with such a small friction zone...

[farabeejunior]

yeah, i was ease off the throttle and pull the clutch at the same time to upshift, but after that i found myself snapping the clutch back out with the throttle still closed. definitely not the proper way so i fixed it.

and yeah, i'll be working on the friction zone control a lot more before i take it for a proper road ride.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by farabeejunior

and yeah, i'll be working on the friction zone control a lot more before i take it for a proper road ride.

Don't forget to have fun with it!

There are many secrets to the friction zone that will come with time and experience. Slow speed skills, off road riding, track riding, ect.. ect.. downshifting and such is just the beginning of a beautiful relationship.

[M42]

Originally Posted by farabeejunior

yeah, i was ease off the throttle and pull the clutch at the same time to upshift, but after that i found myself snapping the clutch back out with the throttle still closed. definitely not the proper way so i fixed it.

and yeah, i'll be working on the friction zone control a lot more before i take it for a proper road ride.

No worries. When you first start out, it's really hard to do all the shifting movements in a well-timed sequence, while simultaneously looking at the road, keeping your eyes out for cars, balancing the bike, etc. My first couple of weeks, I'd pull in the clutch and throttle off, and then have to remember that my foot has to do something, and then realize I hadn't throttled on yet afterwards... :P

It'll become second nature soon enough.

[indomie]

GREAT ADVICE FROM EVERYONE. just practice....have fun....be safe...practice more.

[Finesse]

The friction zone on the ninja 250 sucks, that's normal apparently. Mine (sv650) is noticeable at about 40-50% of the way out...

Looks like everyone else has already given solid advice.

Congrats on your M license btw! Enjoy the bike, just ride it and learn from it