October 4th, 2013, 07:33 AM | #121 |
not an actual panda
Name: dan
Location: philadelphia
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So you agree he pulled in front of him then slowed down immediately.
You just don't want to call it a brake check. You are right though the accident was completely avoidable if he rider didnt swerve-in-front-of-the-SUV-and-slow-down-immediately.* *known in other parts of the world as a brake check. |
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October 4th, 2013, 07:51 AM | #122 |
dirty boy
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I could have been in a similar situation literally two weeks ago, but obviously I made smarter decisions and prevented the possibility.
Driving home with my wife and 2 girls in my truck I went to pass a guy who was going ~68mph in the left lane. So I went to pass them on the right going ~75 and what did they do? Obviously sped up to try and cut me off so I could not pass them before I got blocked by another car in the right lane. So I continued to accelerate then realized this guy was a real D-bag and instead of risking an accident or anything else, I just slowed down, and let the guy have his way. I could have easily kept speeding up then trying to force my way in front of them before getting blocked by a car in right lane. Now lets say I did do that, pushed my way in front of them into the left lane and now I need to brake rapidly because we are now going 85-90mph and there are cars in front of me in left lane going slower. My rapid braking causes guy to hit me from behind. No biggie right? We pull over to hand accident. Guy is already road raging for no reason, now he hit me and is even more pissed so he approaches my truck in very aggressive manor. I'm frightened and since I am "protecting my family" I have the green light to just run him over and push his SUV out of the way and flee the scene right? Lets think how that would have played out to the cops.... um me in prison with no more license. I "brake check" and initiate contact, then run the guy over and flee, does it matter that he was being a complete A-hole the whole time? clearly this did not happen cuz I know you can't beat stupid and this guy was clearly stupid so I decided to take the high road and let him be the big **** for a while. Note this A-hole hounded me for another 5 miles until I took my exit. Did I want to confront him and show him whats up? yeah, but again, I was protecting my family by being calm and responsible, not running people over driving like a lunatic and kept things from getting out of control in the first place.
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October 4th, 2013, 07:55 AM | #123 |
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i'm not sure what to call erratic/irrational motorcycle braking when in front of an SUV.
brake check sounds too technical... i think suicide is a better term.
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October 4th, 2013, 08:05 AM | #124 |
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you deescalated the situation.
the bikers in this case did not, matter of fact they took it to the limit. they should have just just the truck pass, imo.
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October 4th, 2013, 08:22 AM | #125 | |
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Other than that...totally similar. C'mon...seriously...your example is ridiculous. |
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October 4th, 2013, 08:32 AM | #126 | |
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October 4th, 2013, 08:55 AM | #127 | |
dirty boy
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please give detailed explanation. It was a very accurate and realistic scenario that could have happened. Sorry if you can not comprehend that. Again, none of the bikers were interested in physical confrontation with this guy until he rear ended the biker, and you can't see what happens during the first stop after accident. Avoid that situation and this entire thing never happens. + i'm in rural PA, 10:1 says the guy had a handgun in the car.
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October 4th, 2013, 09:03 AM | #128 | |
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October 4th, 2013, 09:07 AM | #129 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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October 4th, 2013, 09:16 AM | #130 | |
dirty boy
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I can just say random stuff to without anything to back it up as well your comment makes no sense your idea of what happened in NY is not accurate you can't possibly know that I can't possibly now this ^see holds no bearing with out something to back it up watch the video 20 biker ride directly past this SUV with out even as much as a glance. I guess I need to take my own advice here from a few posts ago
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October 4th, 2013, 09:21 AM | #131 | |
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Quote:
a bunch of reckless bikers is cause for being cautious and expecting something unpredictable to happen.
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October 4th, 2013, 09:27 AM | #132 | |
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So when they cause trouble to innocent bystanders, its the bystander's fault, because the the bystander should have accommodate their action to the ones acting recklessly. And when the reckless bikers caused the problem = the bystander's fault ok, were you originally from the Democratic Republic of Congo?...... |
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October 4th, 2013, 09:28 AM | #133 | |
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Then to further prove your point you lay claim to information about a group that you can't possibly know based on actions that happened that aren't in clear view of the camera. |
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October 4th, 2013, 09:31 AM | #134 |
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subxero the reason you reacted in the manner that you did was because of the perceived threat to you and your family. You had two choices, speed up or slow down. Since speeding up seem to make the situation worse and you believed there was a 10:1 chance that a hand gun could be involved, you decided to shift your strategy to a less confrontational one. Thankfully it worked.
Now lets say things didnt pan out like you wanted it to and the guy pulled in front of you and slowed down causing a collision. You two pull over to exchange insurance info. Since he is already in a raging mood, he approaches your truck in very aggressive manor with that handgun you were worried about. He is now 2 feet from the center of your front bumper pointing that hand cannon at you. What do you do? Do you gas it regardless of the fact you are going to run him over or do you just sit there? We do not know what the situation being experienced inside the SUV was. That perceived threat could have been a reality in their eyes. My guess is the SUV felt out numbered being surrounded in a very hostile environment so his choice was flight and there is no question of what happened after that point.
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October 4th, 2013, 09:31 AM | #135 | |
Blind 250 Loving Whore
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Unless you're just trolling, then continue. |
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October 4th, 2013, 09:36 AM | #136 |
dirty boy
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read more posts.
I think not one party is at fault here but both. It's just my opinion which last time I check I am aloud to have. I have expressed my opinion and given, examples, reasons, analogies, based off of real world experience, info I can accurately gather from the video as to why I feel this way unlike some others. Ill say again for those who cant read, yes I feel the bikers are at fault, but at the same time the SUV made very poor decisions to instigate the situation beyond what it should have been and it bothers me that they will get off 100% for everything they had done. These types of huge group hooligan rides happen all the time, so why is this the first time we really have a big story where they chase down a guy and beat him? The crazy bikers are the constant so what is the variable?
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October 4th, 2013, 09:37 AM | #137 |
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The whole point to a brake check is "intent". As was explained to me by a state trooper a little while back is intent makes all the difference no matter if it's a gunshot, a stabbing, a brake check, a pursuit.. the list goes on.
Example: If shoot someone who is sitting behind the wheel not offering any aggression towards you or people around you, then your intention was to cause them harm. Therefore have fun in prison for a while. However, if you shot someone who was charging you with a tire iron over their head screaming, them hey. Self defense in a stand your ground state because your INTENTION was defending yourself Same thing with brake checks.. If you brake because circumstances forced you to, then your INTENTION is not to cause an accident or begin an altercation or place someone (the person behind you) in danger However if you brake for no other reason than to place someone behind you in danger, or force a confrontation etc etc... then that's where the "against the law" bit comes in. |
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October 4th, 2013, 09:43 AM | #138 |
dirty boy
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who's the troll again?
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October 4th, 2013, 09:47 AM | #139 | |
dirty boy
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I get what you are saying but the SUV was not in much danger from the motorcycle "brake checking" as we saw from the video, kind of the other way around. This is why it is MY OPINION that the biker was not trying to put the suv in danger, but just get them to slow down a little bit, nothing crazy. If the biker instead of causing a slow down was forcing a stop, sure that is a little different. So then you stop, no biggie you are in a car, keep doors locked. Ok now they physically attack car, sure run over some people I don't care. but we don't know as the SUV decided to run over the first biker before we got that far.
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October 4th, 2013, 09:49 AM | #140 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
You are right, this is not the first time they chase down a guy to beat him, but from that link you can see, this is not the first time they are driving recklessly and breaking all sort of traffic laws. Combined with the fact that last year over 16 of the riders from the group was arrested with 55 bike confiscated, along with over 200 911 calls make about them, also combined with the fact that most of the bikers have no license plate... doesn't sound like a group of peaceful bikers just along mind their own business and suddenly a SUV runs them over.... |
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October 4th, 2013, 09:53 AM | #141 |
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Up untill the bump there are asshats acting like asshats all around. After the bump the RR driver acted rationally and the "bikers" acted like a criminal gang.
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October 4th, 2013, 09:54 AM | #142 |
The Corner Whisperer
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The way anyone defines "brake check" is irrelevant. Intent is the problem with that statement. Danger is relative to each person. I take no sides because I don't know the whole story but from what I see in the vid as a simple KY man. I see a person being backed into a corner. Back any animal into a corner and see what happens, it normally isn't pretty.
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October 4th, 2013, 09:54 AM | #143 |
dirty boy
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property can be fixed and holds no real value.
you can't fight a mob, let them do their stupid thing and be on their way, why challenge them and put your life at risk which is exactly what this guy did.
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October 4th, 2013, 09:58 AM | #144 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
You are going to take that chance? |
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October 4th, 2013, 09:59 AM | #145 | |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
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Should he have to to do this, no not by any means, but again it is the smart thing to do, why try and be a tough guy?
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I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
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October 4th, 2013, 10:01 AM | #146 | |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
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Quote:
edit: It's all about possible outcomes for me and I just see so many poor decisions that just keep escalating the situation. After running over the other biker the possible outcomes for this guy went from a beating to ending up dead real quick. He wasn't going to get away
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I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
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October 4th, 2013, 10:04 AM | #147 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
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Joe
I have always said... as seen in other threads. "Put as much distance between you and stupidity as possible. You will live a longer and happier life." Right or wrong, if I see 30+ bikes acting a fool, coming up on me, I am letting them past. 1 vs 30 is a loose on my part. Simple as that. Give me no escape though... it's a all together a different matter, the end result is likely to be 0 to 26.
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October 4th, 2013, 10:07 AM | #148 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
Hindsight is always 20/20, you can argue that those bikers really just want to distort money from the SUV, but in the heat of the moment, people make decisions that they think best can save their life. |
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October 4th, 2013, 10:14 AM | #149 | |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
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Quote:
by running over the biker you might have just turned most likely at worst a personal beating into almost certainly you and your family getting murdered. The suv had next to no chance of escape. I might play the odds there, maybe just me?
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I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
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October 4th, 2013, 10:22 AM | #150 | |
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Quote:
And really, what kind of average person on the fly just decides that hey, it's better to sit here and take a beating with my family rather than running? |
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October 4th, 2013, 10:22 AM | #151 |
The Corner Whisperer
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To play, or not to play is indeed the question Joe and 100% for sure a gray area.
To me it boils down to the level of what is acceptable or NOT acceptable and level of tolerance. If both parties have 0 tolerance and low acceptance, things get bad/out of control fast. I like to think, I am quick on my feet when dealing with such things but to error is human also.
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October 4th, 2013, 10:28 AM | #152 | |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
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Quote:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134407 "It’s like that in every sport or performance, not just on a motorcycle." edit: Might be something more difficult for your average street bike rider to grasp as some people may ride their entire lives only crashing 1 time or not at all. I am willing to bet people that engage in other sport activities that have a much higher probability of you crashing like MTBing, off road motorcyles, extreme snowboarding, just to name a few I am familiar with, better understand the when to "react or not react" ideas a little better. fractions of a second seem like an eternity and you learn from your mistakes .........
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I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
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October 4th, 2013, 10:42 AM | #153 | |
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Quote:
Even if one plays out such scenarios in their own head, things are different in the moment. A person isn't going to have the proper instincts to react in the best manner unless they frequently encounter the situation and have practice in facing it. I highly doubt most people frequently get into such altercations. Once again, you're expecting way too much of the average person. That's great if you think you'd be prepared in such a situation, but you really can't expect the same of the general population. |
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October 4th, 2013, 10:55 AM | #154 | |
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Quote:
This is an example of what could happen when you are a sitting duck: http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/T...126708808.html The captured 16 years old killer confessed that this young couple immediately gave away the keys of the car and offered no resistance and that he pulled the trigger simply because "he did not see fear in their eyes". What I trying to say is that it is wrong assuming that a person interfering your way or openly attacking you will always play by the rules of logic and decency. In South Florida, LEOs' have been shot during simply traffic stops, impostor LEOs' have stopped and assaulted drivers, punks on sport bikes have endangered my family pulling stunts next to and in front of our car at 80 mph, punks initiating in gangs do whatever they are asked to belong; therefore, I don't stop for nobody other than a LEO. If one must go to jail and the other one must die, I would rather be the first one. I understand that the driver could have complied with the punks' demands and risk the outcome; but nobody asked him if he had an emergency and nobody let that "rebel" go. I feel sorry for the guy that was run over after choosing belonging to that group of stupidity multipliers. I feel sorry for the family forced into a weird situation. I also feel sorry for the police doing nothing during this unfortunate event.
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October 4th, 2013, 10:58 AM | #155 |
dirty boy
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^truth and well stated
I guess for this whole thing I am at the point of just trying to get people to realize this didn't have to happen. Who was in the right, who was in the wrong either way. Simple decisions a person makes can have serious outcomes so don't just say "Good he ran over them, protect family" " I would have done the same thing" I just want to encourage people the think things through and hopefully see that maybe there is a better alternative. I have this convo with my wife on occasion, she can get pretty heated while driving a car in a hurry. And trying to explain to her that you don't know who is driving the other car so just let it go, what ever stupid thing they just did, let it go. They could be completely crazy with a gun and chase you down if you confront them and turn a stupid cut off into something crazy. It's not worth it. several years ago in MD there was an accident involving people going to work. 2 vehicles have confrontation, angry guy in truck brake checks car, car swerves off highway to avoid rear end collision and goes over embankment, 2 dead. you never know but at least you can try and take the best possible exit out. This NY incident is one of those times, and its sad. Lots of people hurt and it didn't have to happen. edit: If someone holds up me and my family you are already at a potential point of no return and if you feel there is an exit that doesn't have to do with playing the odds of (is this guy going to just shoot us anyway) I'm going to take it, but again situation is everything, is it one guy with a gun? 2 guys with guns? 2 guys 1 gun? All these need to be weighed in an instant and a decision made
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October 4th, 2013, 11:07 AM | #156 |
ninjette.org member
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The lesson here is, don't break check something that have 10 time the mass than you. Angry SUV vs angry bikers, the SUV always wins.
I don't know about those guys but for me, every time I ride I'll do my best to avoid trouble instead of starting trouble with other cagers. |
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October 4th, 2013, 11:13 AM | #157 | |
dirty boy
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Quote:
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I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
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October 4th, 2013, 11:20 AM | #158 | |
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October 4th, 2013, 11:54 AM | #159 |
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God Bless TEXAS
This company is offering to retrofit his SUV for free if video get 5,000,000 views
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October 4th, 2013, 12:07 PM | #160 |
Certified looney toon
Name: Teri
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So, watching that video, with the baseball bat (?) and the gun, each impact was in a slightly different place and did result in damage to the window. What would have happened if either of those was used repeatedly in the exact same spot? Would it eventually break through?
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