February 11th, 2015, 06:17 AM | #41 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
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I've seen many a person couldn't control walking... Your argument is invalid
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February 11th, 2015, 06:50 AM | #42 | ||
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Name: Danny
Location: MA
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Quote:
If $1,400 extra dollars is literally chump change to someone, then by all means they should get the more expensive bike. There are two main reasons why people buy small bikes, 1. They are forgiving/ easy to learn 2. They are cheap (cheap to buy, cheap to fix, cheap on gas...) Quote:
I wish I could find it, but there was a video on youtube that is someone who just bought their cbr600rr and they were on the highway. They just upgraded from a ninja 250 after like a year of riding. There was traffic and he noticed kinda late, not a big deal, he just needed to tap the brake a little, plenty of time to react. But he grabbed it the same way you would grab a 250 brake and he ended up locking up the front and going down on the highway doing like 70. These Dual piston brakes are POWERFUL they are NOTHING compared to the ninja 250's. By the way you don't need to ride a supersport to know that they are dangerous, but hell, I'm sure someone who's ridden both could explain their thoughts on a newbie on a 600. And if no one wants to chime in since you know, it would be my point you would be defending, then i'd be happy to link you to one of the 1.8 trillion posts/videos/articles explaining why they are dangerous and only for experienced riders.
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February 11th, 2015, 07:11 AM | #43 | |
Freedom for Germany
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February 11th, 2015, 07:17 AM | #44 |
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Name: Eric
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
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1000's are more prone to whoop your ass than a 600 SS
600's are rather tame until your over 8k, and really near 12k to be in real powerband (not including the 636 which has more torque lower down revs). But the CBR and GSXR I rode where on par w my Fz6r. Fz6r actually had more torque, but cut out at rev limiter right where the SS's just start their real power. Brakes-- yeah brakes can easily bite you. Stock 250/300 brakes can lock up easy enough also..especially if jab at or hamfisted. Any bike will go down from hamfisted braking, I doubt ABS can save that either. Anyway, if this guy has so much money and market has changed so much in way of what bikes are available. An Fz6r or CBR500/650F or fz07 would be good starter bikes and have more longevity in most people garage. (eg. won't get bored w power fast)
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February 11th, 2015, 07:32 AM | #45 |
ninjette.org member
Name: James
Location: Dyess AFB (Abilene) TX
Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Yamaha FZ1, 2006 Yamaha FJR1300A, 2014 Ninja 300 Posts: 116
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yeah, liter bikes are a handful. I took mine out for a spin yesterday and giggled like a little schoolboy getting on the gas after a stop light. It was a gradual increasing radius left turn and I shifted from 1st to 2nd at bout 6k rpm's and then pinned 2nd gear. That kinda joy can't be experienced by these little bikes.
Think I won't buy one... I'll be left disappointed with it. 150 hp to the wheel is more fun than 40 ever will be. My 52 hp Husky SMR510 came close, but power is addictive.
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February 11th, 2015, 07:40 AM | #46 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Cypress, CA
Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300, 2001 V-Star 1100 Classic Posts: 55
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A super sport of any sort is much more difficult to operate than the 250 or 300 is. Yes, while you are always in control up until the crash site of any bike, a super sport is much easier to make an unrecoverable mistake on. Even the R6 which is regarded as the gutless wonder of super sports below 10k RPMs can get you into serious trouble if you mess up. The quickly revving nature of the engine mixed with the much more sensitive and tuned throttle has bit many newbies in the ass. I've seen quite a few unintentional wheelies as a new rider botches an upshift and gets the timing between the clutch and throttle wrong and end up throttling too soon and drop the clutch and loop the bike. I've also seen guys do the exact opposite and botch a downshift and lock the rear, freak out, and lay the bike down. Many of these new riders in their group don't actually really down shift when coming to a stop. They've trained themselves to downshift once they come to a stop. Also, many new riders on super sports don't really know how to properly modulate the brakes and often use way too much initial force and tend to stab the brakes. They don't realize that you can use just a finger or two at most to get all of the braking force you will need to stop. I've seen these same noobs on super sports go over the handlebars from getting on the brakes too hard too fast and they don't have the newer bikes that come with ABS. I remember talking to some of the more "senior" noobs and they'd tell other riders to use mostly the rear brake so you don't launch yourself over the bars. Thought I was talking to a group of crusty old cruiser riders. This pack of sport bike riders that my friend used to hang out with never took a class and I believe they probably don't have licenses either.
I've watched these putzes make every noob mistake you can on a super sport and I know that the same mistakes on a ninja 300 or 250 would take a lot more work of ignorance to achieve the same results you get on the super sports. I've watched my friend go through wrecked super sport after wrecked super sport during his learning process and he was the better one of the group because he at least did the MSF course and got his license. I've noted something interesting though in that noob riders have a tendency to develop and employ work arounds to control issues rather than achieve mastery over the control in question. To avoid locking up the rear when downshifting, they try to keep away from downshifting until they've stopped or come to a near complete stop. To prevent going over the bars from grabbing too much brake, they barely use it and rely more on the rear brake. Throttle issues, well they want to go fast so this is an accepted risk for them. While not impossible to learn on a super sport, it's a lot more work and can really slow the learning process down and potentially may encourage a new rider to employ work arounds for the harder things and develop some pretty bad habits. This effect seems to get a lot worse when these noob riders congregate in semi-permanent groups and those with bad habits and techniques pass them on to the newer riders who don't know any damn better. I like to call these "squid farms." My local community college has a "squid farm" "chapter" and it's pretty funny to watch them ride. There are a couple of really good riders mixed in their group, but I assume these guys don't really do much if any instruction or advice. |
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February 11th, 2015, 07:52 AM | #47 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot.
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There's a "squid farm" near me as well. Same bullshit. There are good riders in the group, the issue is that they can't give advice since their advice is immediately ignored because of x,y,z excuse that it wasn't a rider control error that caused the **** up.
now danny, I agree supersports can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing (or are riding them anywhere near their potential on public roads) It's not uncommon for someone to hop on a ss after riding a 250 and wipe out because they made a mistake that was covered up by the 250's docile nature. Your example with the brakes is partially right since you can get away with doing that dumb and wrong approach to braking on a 250 and can't with an ss. However, if you learn the technique on the 250 correctly it transfers right over. This goes for everything other than throttle control, actually nvm it does apply to throttle control if you're doing it wrong on the 250 since on the 250 you just pin it everywhere and on the ss you roll on smoothly and consistently. You should ride one before you make judgements though. People make mistakes on all bikes, they just tend to hurt more on supersports
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February 11th, 2015, 08:13 AM | #48 | |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
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February 11th, 2015, 10:22 AM | #49 |
Inline 4!!!
Name: Danny
Location: MA
Join Date: May 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2008 CBR600rr, 1987 KLR 250 Posts: A lot.
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Believe me, I'm in the market for a cbr600rr. I just think a new rider has no business on one.
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February 11th, 2015, 10:23 AM | #50 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
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I know you're trying to get one but have you ridden one?
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February 11th, 2015, 02:19 PM | #51 |
Inline 4!!!
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Location: MA
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What I'm trying to say, is that I ultimately agree with you. That's why I want one To answer your question, I've only ever ridden the old cbr600, I believe it was an F2 or something I forget the year. Piece of crap though, needed carbs cleaned and what not. I only rode it about 2 miles so I don't even really count it to be honest.
Also, I just found out that the Yamaha R3 is supposedly only gonna get about 56 MPG. So I guess that 3.7L tank means you'll only go ~207 miles. So I was off by about 40 miles.
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February 11th, 2015, 02:25 PM | #52 |
ninjette.org member
Name: James
Location: Dyess AFB (Abilene) TX
Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Yamaha FZ1, 2006 Yamaha FJR1300A, 2014 Ninja 300 Posts: 116
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can I ride your RZ? that's a different stroke
600 supersports are very docile as others have mentioned, and really not very harmful under 7-9k rpms. It's no wonder that two of the three I had (all R6's) were strictly trackbikes). I normally recommend an SV650 to guys starting off. good torque, not much plastic to ruin, enough power to still have fun and a few months to "outgrow". My dad had an F2. Pretty nice little bike, but the newer 600's are well advanced compared to the older ones.
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February 11th, 2015, 02:52 PM | #53 |
cadd cadd cadd
Name: Cadd
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56mpg on the r3. Not horrible, but not great either? What's the N300 rated at? Personally, I've been getting high 50s and low 60s. Suburban riding 75% of the time. The other 25% is mix of city and interstate riding. Average is 61mpg.
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February 11th, 2015, 03:01 PM | #54 |
Private Joker
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not sure what the n300 is rated at, I just know that I get 40 when riding spiritedly and 50-60 normally
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February 11th, 2015, 03:24 PM | #55 | |
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February 11th, 2015, 04:03 PM | #56 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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February 11th, 2015, 04:33 PM | #57 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Poul
Location: Seattle
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is there a translation of this? google fails me.
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February 11th, 2015, 04:37 PM | #58 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Maybe if yins be battin' yer eyes like a toad in a hailstorm, they might put tc on their fir ya'lls. But don't be holdin' yer breath now, ya hear?
Translation: If you bat your eyes quickly like those girls do to get what they want, they might put traction control on the bike, but I wouldn't hold your breath for traction control on a bike putting so little power to the pavement.
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February 11th, 2015, 06:28 PM | #59 |
sammich maker
Name: snot
Location: West Ohio - in the kitchen
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@choneofakind
Did they have one at the IMS in Cleveland?
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February 11th, 2015, 08:28 PM | #60 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16
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Why y'all pickin on Danny??? Or who is pickin on Danny
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February 11th, 2015, 08:39 PM | #61 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot.
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I just realized that I didn't get to see the two bikes I wanted to see most when I went to the timonium bike show last weekend
the r3 and the rc390. They didn't have an rc390 and I completely missed the r3 since there was so much to see and I ran out of time after talking to folk for hours
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February 11th, 2015, 08:42 PM | #62 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
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300 needs TC!!
I can spin it up, a bit, 1st to 3rd gear!!! Oh wait.. still got the old IRC tire on, which is pretty flat in middle and sub 40 today
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February 11th, 2015, 08:56 PM | #63 | |
Inline 4!!!
Name: Danny
Location: MA
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February 11th, 2015, 11:48 PM | #64 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: -
Location: -
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Quote:
Bazzaz sells a Fuel Controller for the N300 that adds quickshift and Traction Control. So at least a more basic TC could be added to the R3 bike. It is expensive for the N300 at $730! But at least it gives you FI control/tuning and quickshift plus the TC. This might not be the best option - not sure how good the Traction Control is on these units. Never read any reviews or watched any videos. I'm sure they are pretty nice though - they are the main competitor for Dynojet. ABS is more tricky to add, not sure if that would be possible. |
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February 12th, 2015, 02:12 AM | #65 | |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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Every TC needs as information that the wheel is slipping and in the cars or motorcycles this information comes from the ABS sensor - its just like a reversed ABS. |
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February 12th, 2015, 02:19 AM | #66 | ||
ninjette.org sage
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Quote:
Here is some text from the sales page - Quote:
Here's a link to the controller on Sportbiketrackgear - Bazazz Kawasaki Ninja 300 13-14 |
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February 12th, 2015, 03:11 AM | #67 | |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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So when this systems works like it should and from what i'm sure about that it will, then the price, even when it's looking high, will be ok. |
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February 12th, 2015, 03:52 AM | #68 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
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Quote:
But you're basing your entire rant on stuff you've only read about. you've never test ridden one, but you're all "I'm in the market for one". Really? Find a friend, find a dealership, a demo day, a bum on the street, something like that. Ride one to see how it feels before spouting stuff like this. They're great fun, they're just not quite as forgiving and easy as the ninjette so you have to have some idea of what you're doing. Trust me, for him to lock up at 70, he did way more than what he should have, even on 250 standards. That's rider incompetence, not equipment over-achievery. Go ride one for goodness sake. You need to at least know if you like it before you work towards buying one. Sheesh. I don't need the rant, yo. The reason no one likes you (per you) is because of rants like this. Chill a little, don't get so reactive, and filter what you type a little. |
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February 12th, 2015, 08:27 AM | #69 |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
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@Hero Danny , It's been said several times. Go out and ride a SS, you might be a little surprised at how easy some things are and how difficult other things are.
In my little experience on SS's I was amazed at how easy they are to lug around in 2nd and 3rd gear. They are smooth docile, linear little pussy cats outside of the powerband. Little shifting is required and even if you find your self to low in the revs in 3rd there is still more than enough torque to pull you around. The brakes are not going to bite you in the ass out of no where, several mistakes leading up to a hamfisting of the brakes will most likely be the cause of an accident, locking up the front is just the icing on the cake They get a little hot Pulling out from a stop requires a little more precision and practice, they are easy to stall from a stop If you dump the clutch in anything but the high revs the bike will most likely stall or bog as it struggles to get moving, and we know what happens on the other end Easier to maneuver than I expected ^just a few things I noticed and with that being said The main reason for not starting on a SS vs another bike IMO is lack of clutch and throttle control and cash . After that most bikes are pretty similar when riding within the law. But I think a lot of this throttle/clutch stuff can be resolved quickly with proper instruction/teaching/training. So IMO the real problem is lack of proper instruction/teaching/training. Most people who ride motorcycles, even if they are decent at it have no ability to teach the mechanics in a proper/safe manor to others. They generally sit them on a bike and say, do this (well what about after they "do this" and if "doing this" goes wrong? All in all the wrong approach. I used to teach snowboarding, not something easy for everyone to learn. There are teaching techniques that make it a lot easier for a noob to learn the basics with out putting themselves at risk. It is painful going to a MTN. and watching people send their friends down a slope with little to no proper teaching instruction Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you know how to teach others If one of my friends wanted to start on a SS with no prior experience I would feel comfortable with it as long as I could spend a day or two with them when they first got the bike going over things and drilling
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February 12th, 2015, 09:34 AM | #70 |
ninjette.org member
Name: James
Location: Dyess AFB (Abilene) TX
Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Yamaha FZ1, 2006 Yamaha FJR1300A, 2014 Ninja 300 Posts: 116
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y'all are beginning to sound like a bunch of old retired folks bickering about nothing relatively important.
Go ride a crotch rocket at the track, and see how fun the can be. it'll be ok!
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February 12th, 2015, 12:32 PM | #71 | |
Inline 4!!!
Name: Danny
Location: MA
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Doesn't matter anyway, I don't even know what we are arguing anymore. I just think that the ninja 250 brakes are very forgiving and is another reason why new riders should start on the ninja 250.
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February 12th, 2015, 12:45 PM | #72 | |
Inline 4!!!
Name: Danny
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They do get hot, but believe it or not that is a pro for me. It's cold where I live 75% of the year.
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February 12th, 2015, 02:28 PM | #73 | |
Private Joker
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my proof, I suck at snowboarding but love it anyway despite going home battered and bruised every single time
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February 12th, 2015, 02:34 PM | #74 | |
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Name: Bubba
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The idea that experience makes people safer on 100+ hp bikes does not get proven by crash stats. |
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February 12th, 2015, 02:36 PM | #75 |
ninjette.org member
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February 12th, 2015, 02:41 PM | #76 | |
Inline 4!!!
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February 12th, 2015, 02:45 PM | #77 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Some real talk ya'lls...
I love SS's!!!!!!!! But if ya can't handle it, it be like riding a bee stung swayback pony bareback through the brier patch on a hot summer day. Seriously though... The acceleration force that is still felt with a pinned throttle at 100+mph from a 600ss is precisely in no way shape or form ever intended for n00bs, even more so from superbikes. If a SS is lugging off the line, then the rider isn't in well enough in the friction zone (which is normally pretty small). A SS can come of the line at an idle. If one can't make it happen... the rider is not precise enough. All SS bikes are not created equal, a few are outright monsters from the start and thin out up top (big twins), some only wake up at 8k+ and get downright ridiculous at 10k (yamis, kawis, ect..), others are very linear in the power delivery throughout the rev range (honduhs and the likes). Above n00b level throttle precision is needed from time to time to calm the beast within (both bike and rider) or let sleeping dogs lie. Cheap and SS overall don't belong in the same sentence. lol How precise it needs to be is determined on where the decimal point is when you spend $$ or measured in how many tires you need per season and how often you change fork seals. hahahahhaha SS are easy to maneuver because they are designed to be, pretty simple. If not, there is something wrong with the bike, but normally it's the rider that is precisely the problem. Manya n00bs start on a 600 without much fussin', imho... It just be slowin' down their learnin's unless they pursue trainin' beyond the msf. I be seein' it all da time. Back on threat topic: So according to that video, the frame geometry is not "track oriented". So I would bet that part of the race setup for this bike would be a geometry adjustment. ie. lowering the front/raising the rear. It's got the SS look, just needs the SS stance and legs under it.
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February 12th, 2015, 07:12 PM | #78 |
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^^^ face down, ass up. That's the way we like to... Errr... Uhhh.... Ride motorcycles!
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February 12th, 2015, 08:01 PM | #79 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Joe
Location: Lancaster CA
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February 12th, 2015, 08:07 PM | #80 |
Private Joker
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So did I, the duke 390 felt a little cramped in comparison...or rather in general
Sitting on the newer supersports I once again loved the triumph daytona's position. Imagine racing a daytona 675 and an s1000rr (because that's the natural match when one doesn't have a superbike and the other doesn't have a supersport) back to back That said, I've grown to like suzuki's non-busa lineup aesthetically and functionally
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