September 6th, 2016, 05:24 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jim
Location: NE
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): 250 and R6 track Posts: 7
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Wheel weight reduction - Help
I have seen various posts referring to wheels that were lightened. From what I can gather it seems like people have the rims machined in some manner.
Does anyone have additional information on this procedure, e.g. how much weight can be removed, any safety issues, a recommendation on where to have this done? My ninja does exclusive racing and track day duty for both my son and myself. I’m old and fat and need all the help I can get plus I’m the only 250 in the field running against all 300’s. Thanks |
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September 6th, 2016, 06:40 AM | #2 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
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September 6th, 2016, 07:46 AM | #3 |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake)
Join Date: Sep 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250R (Red), 2005 VFR800A (Red), CRF450X (Red), 2012 F800GS (Wants to be Red!) Posts: A lot.
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As an old & fat rider myself; the safest, most cost/benefit results will be achieved if you remove the wheels, grab a wheel in each hand and raise them above your head. Do that for 3 sets of 10 every day. For even greater results: a little duct tape applied to the lips just before meals is extremely effective to reduce lap times!
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The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over |
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September 6th, 2016, 08:18 AM | #4 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
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I've only seen the store bought kind
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September 6th, 2016, 08:23 AM | #5 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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eat more salads.
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September 6th, 2016, 06:22 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jim
Location: NE
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): 250 and R6 track Posts: 7
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Hahahahaha
I knew I'd open myself up to the "Hey dude visit the salad bar once in a blue moon" response. I'm tryin for sure...was 216lbs down to 190ish and still going - I get it this will make the biggest difference. Put the bike on a weight loss program as well - just wondering about the wheel thing as that is probably the most effective place to reduce weight if possible. |
2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
September 6th, 2016, 07:04 PM | #7 | |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake)
Join Date: Sep 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250R (Red), 2005 VFR800A (Red), CRF450X (Red), 2012 F800GS (Wants to be Red!) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '15
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Quote:
It is very possible you might crack the wheel and your son disintegrates it!
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The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over |
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2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
September 6th, 2016, 07:05 PM | #8 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117501 There is no much weight that can be reduced from the wheel without affecting its strength. The smallest profile of tire will help with both, lineal and rotational inertia.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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September 6th, 2016, 07:33 PM | #9 | |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jim
Location: NE
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): 250 and R6 track Posts: 7
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Thanks for the responses - Points taken on safety which is why I was asking.
I definitely race for fun, my son is 14 and is learning more and more each time he throws a leg over a bike - super cool to watch. I definitely checked out this thread (multiple times). Quote:
Investigating aluminum fairing stay and replacement gauge, lightweight brake rotor, fan removal, key removal, switches and housing removal and any other stuff I can learn about. I wonder if wheels from another bike like RS125 could work somehow. |
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September 6th, 2016, 07:44 PM | #10 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16
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Ain't much weight to shave from the bikes, but it can be done... Always safety first though
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September 6th, 2016, 09:17 PM | #11 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
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Good riding technique will swamp out small weight reductions in a hurry. I bet the time spent practicing on a track will be more important than the same amount of time spent trimming a little weight off the bike.
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September 7th, 2016, 05:25 AM | #12 | |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jim
Location: NE
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): 250 and R6 track Posts: 7
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Quote:
True dat. Definitely learning corner speed and momentum with this machine. I love to study riding - been to Corner spin, YCRS (3x) and CSS (levels 1 - 4). Some folks are naturally good - I on the other hand need to work much harder to achieve a portion of a really talented riders skills. Never stop learning and tying to improve. That being said racers are always looking to shave off a few ounces where ever they can. This season a racing buddy bought a sprocket from a guy in the paddock - the next day the guy (another racer) came to him and said he forgot the thing had titanium hardware that he wanted back. |
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September 7th, 2016, 06:11 AM | #13 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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In all seriousness though, check out various race tire weights and put that into your decision.
If you're going to be buying tires anyway, might as well get a set that can drop some weight from the outside of the wheel (the spot where mass with have the most effect on rotational inertia). |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
September 7th, 2016, 11:20 AM | #14 |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot.
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Weight reduction is very often a gotta pay to play kind of thing.
Some old threads from racers that cut some serious weight but they are not leaving any stone unturned. We are talking grinding and cutting any extra metal from frame tabs, losing ones that are not 100% necessary, doing smaller chain conversions, drilling things out, LiPo battery, among lots of other tricks, most of that stuff isn't that expensive. Once you start milking oz's here and there with Ti bits it starts to get pricy. You want lighter wheels... buy a set of lighter race wheels, anywhere from $1500 - $4k for the crazy stuff.
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September 7th, 2016, 12:02 PM | #15 | |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 6
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Quote:
I echo what others said. Have you considered liposuction or lat band surgery? Unsprung weight/rotating mass reduction has a big effect, but look at cost/benefit. There's a lot of room for weight savings before you start carving up mission-critical components willy-nilly. A smallest-possible lithium battery will save you a lot of weight... ripping the wiring harness apart and chucking all but the essentials, ditto. Rig a keyswitch eliminator and save a couple more pounds. And none of those cost anywhere near what dedicated ultralight race wheels do.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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September 8th, 2016, 05:36 AM | #16 | ||
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jim
Location: NE
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): 250 and R6 track Posts: 7
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Quote:
Quote:
Seriously - the 250 is really my sons bike that's why I am not willy-nilly and I check everything out before I make any move. I raced it this year in addition to my R6 to put it under some pressure and work out kinks. He does track days on it when he's not riding dirt or kart tracks. This bike is a stepping stone for him if he decides to continue on. I've done several things to the bike, e.g. harvested a lithium battery from one of my other race bikes, chain conversion etc... Really poking around at options now that I'm in the off-season from racing. I appreciate all of the responses and good advice - especially the motivating words folks offer around the rider weight reduction modification |
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September 8th, 2016, 07:01 AM | #17 |
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
Location: Washington
Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250, 2008 Ninja 250, 2019 KTM 1290SDR, 2017 FZ10 Posts: A lot.
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Don't machine the wheels. Don't worry about weight. The small amount you'll lose even with expensive Marchesini's won't do much for you. They won't keep with Ninja 300's or KTM 390's or Yamaha R3's no matter what you do. Those have at least 10 HP on the Ninja 250. You can keep up in the corners but will get dogged in the straights.
Instead, get good tires, good suspension and then focus on rider skills. Don't race to win, race to have fun and learn! Race the lap timer.
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Goin' fast on slow bikes! |
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September 8th, 2016, 07:03 AM | #18 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16
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Just have fun man, that's what it's all about
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September 8th, 2016, 08:58 AM | #19 | ||
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
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Quote:
Quote:
Besides the force (along the chain) necessary to lineally accelerate the mass of both tires (rotating or not, just the mass or weight), an additional torque (radius of sprocket times force also along the chain) is needed to overcome the moment of inertia (angular mass or rotational inertia) of both tires while they change speed. Force along the chain is limited by the torque of the engine, which has a max. For that reason, heavier tires will consume more of that torque, slowing the processes of acceleration and braking down. Discs brakes are superior to drum brakes in that aspect. Please see: http://hpwizard.com/rotational-inertia.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia As @choneofakind has explained, for two more or less similar wheel-tire combinations, the mass farther from the center of rotation is the more important to reduce resistance to acceleration and deceleration as much as possible. In that sense, 16" wheels and tires are better than 17" ones.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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September 8th, 2016, 10:14 AM | #20 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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One of the fastest 250 riders I know is 300+lbs. ijs.....
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September 8th, 2016, 10:33 AM | #21 |
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
Location: Washington
Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250, 2008 Ninja 250, 2019 KTM 1290SDR, 2017 FZ10 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '16
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Momentum riding.
The less you slow down, the less you have to accelerate.
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Goin' fast on slow bikes! |
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September 8th, 2016, 12:43 PM | #22 |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake)
Join Date: Sep 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250R (Red), 2005 VFR800A (Red), CRF450X (Red), 2012 F800GS (Wants to be Red!) Posts: A lot.
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Ask Misti about Stuman! He's not on a 250 and he's not 300 lbs but he's a big man and holy holy; he's fast!!!!
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The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over |
2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
September 9th, 2016, 05:43 PM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jim
Location: Utah
Join Date: Apr 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja250-3x; CBR600 & R6 (track bikes); lots of dirt stuff Posts: 25
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Change bikes - Go to a real GP bike
You're missing a real easy way to have the best.
Buy a MotoGP 125cc bike. New, they were $10k, with spares $20k. Weight 155 pounds, 40hp. You can pick one up with tons of spares: pistons, cylinders, gear sets for the six-speed trans, etc. Prices seem to be in the $2-4k range, which is the same price as a used Ninja. But you get a sophisticated race bike with nothing that needs to be done to it. It will run with the Ninjas, but brakes and turns for real. If dragging knees is important to you (seems to be on this forum), this bike will let you drag knees, boots and elbows. That's what I did for my boy at that age. I told him, when that bike had taught him everything it could, he would know exactly what bike to race. But he surprised me, by staying with it until he quit racing. (job and family) It was really fun watching him stuff 600's in turns and out braking them by a mile. But the best thing was putting it back in the truck - no ramp! Lift up the front, place on tailgate, lift up back, done. Just some thoughts, cheers, |
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September 12th, 2016, 10:36 AM | #24 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bruce
Location: northern illinois
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Race bikes:08 Ninja 250,11 R6,16 ZX6,SV650.3 HD-1947,2-2003,2010. 1946 Indian and a lot of dirt bikes.2 Posts: 999
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I'm a big fan of masking my riding inequities with horsepower....
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