April 6th, 2015, 12:28 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: West Texas
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 13
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New Guy, New Bike- Drivetrain issue
Hello all, new guy here from West Texas. I have been pouring through the forums trying to learn as much as I can, but can't narrow down the issue I am having. Tons of other great info I have bookmarked for later though!
Issue: New to me 2005 Ninja 250r with 11,000 miles on it. Runs good overall, but while accelerating, maintaining speed, decelerating, coasting (neutral or clutch pulled in) I get a very rhythmic pulsing. No change when lightly applying either the front and/or the rear brake. I rode a 2007 Ninja 250r the other day and it was smooth as butter, so I know this isn't how it is supposed to be! Steps taken: I have adjusted the chain to spec, sprockets look ok, but with some wear to the teeth. If I put the bike on the center stand and rotate the back wheel briskly I also hear a rhythmic sound, like something is rubbing, but I can't see anywhere it could be rubbing. Checked the clutch adjustment, seems to be within spec, and operates properly. Thoughts: Doesn't seem like an engine issue as the problem exists at speed whether engine is engaged or not, so have not messed with carbs or valves. Wondering if a worn chain/sprocket could cause this? Could this be a transmission issue? Maybe a rear bearing? Any ideas? |
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April 6th, 2015, 12:36 PM | #2 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Welcome Justin!
Lube the chain, see if the sound goes away. If it does, plan it coming back later. It's a sign that your chain needs replacing.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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April 6th, 2015, 12:39 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: West Texas
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 13
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April 6th, 2015, 12:59 PM | #4 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Next question to isolate the chain is, does the sound go away at a certain speed while riding?
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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April 6th, 2015, 01:17 PM | #5 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: West Texas
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 13
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Quote:
It isn't just a sound though, you can actually feel it pulsing. I have had the bike about 2 weeks now, and it seems to be getting worse. |
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April 6th, 2015, 01:20 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Aaron
Location: Winder, GA
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300 Posts: 718
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Does the frequency of the pulse change with speed?
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DISCLAIMER: I generally have no idea what I'm talking about. |
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April 6th, 2015, 01:21 PM | #7 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Well then...
The only thing left to do is; Back on the center stand Take off chain Spin wheel and listen (wheel bearing, brakes rubbin'/draggin'? remove the caliper if you have to) Wiggle the back wheel side to side, there should be no movement (again wheel bearing) Start up engine Put bike in gear and listen (no chain on, your listening for engine internals) It's a process of elimination my friend, but with 11k miles, worn teeth on sprocket and repeating pattern sound... all current signs point to the chain.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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April 6th, 2015, 01:24 PM | #8 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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As a last resort... soak the chain in a gear oil and kerosene mix overnight and give it another go. The overnight soak will allow the oil to penetrate the links. The sound should go away if it's coming from the chain.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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April 6th, 2015, 05:52 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bob
Location: Earf
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250, 2006 SV650N Posts: 642
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I had the same issue but thought the sound was coming from my front brake caliper. Did a full rebuild and low and behold the sound was still there. Adjusted and cleaned the chain, fixed the rear wheel alignment, and lubed it. Sound went away.
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April 6th, 2015, 06:00 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: West Texas
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 13
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Ok, just checked the chain again. It seems to be adjusted ok, but when I pull the chain away from the rear sprocket where the chain has the most slack it pulls away enough that I can almost see an entire tooth. Rear sprocket teeth are also pretty chewed up, guessing the front is in similar condition, though I didn't pull the cover to look, just going to replace it.
2 questions: First, how freely should the links move? While none of the links are kinked or frozen, most of them are quite stiff. Second, how detrimental is riding with a worn chain? It will be a few days before I order the parts and the chain tool, but would like to keep riding so long as I am not going to tear anything up! Thanks for all the help! |
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April 6th, 2015, 06:20 PM | #11 | |
Vanilla Gorilla
Name: Jason
Location: Western Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2012 Motorcycle(s): '11 Triumph Sprint GT & '06 625SMC Posts: 79
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Quote:
How do the tires look? I've had vibes translate through a bike when a tire/wheel was out of balance. Does the vibration vary at different speeds, as in the frequency up or down? If so, it's likely an issue within one of the rotating masses like a wheel bearing, wheel balance, or your final drivetrain. |
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April 6th, 2015, 06:24 PM | #12 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: West Texas
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 13
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Quote:
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April 6th, 2015, 06:41 PM | #13 | |
Vanilla Gorilla
Name: Jason
Location: Western Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2012 Motorcycle(s): '11 Triumph Sprint GT & '06 625SMC Posts: 79
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Quote:
Sounds as though the chain and sprockets should be replaced either way, so they're the simplest, logical starting point. Check the sides of the sprocket too, if there's wear on one side of the sprocket where the link plates of the chain pass over it, then the alignment could be off and be the issue. And the chain and sprockets increase speed continually the faster the bike rolls, just as the wheels do, no matter which gear you're in. I'm thinking most bases were covered with what's already been mentioned to check. Chain/sprockets Rear brake and rotor Wheel bearings Engine's moving parts And it may not hurt to check out the front wheel and brakes since vibes can talk to you throughout the whole bike. |
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April 6th, 2015, 06:51 PM | #14 |
.
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.
MOTM - July '15
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Had the same problem. Cleaned the chain properly and it went away. Came back, turned out I aligned it wrong and messed up my rear sprocket. I'm actually only posting this because I'm taking a break from installing new chain/sprockets right now haha.
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April 6th, 2015, 06:53 PM | #15 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: West Texas
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 13
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Quote:
Alignment is on I think, measuring from the front of the swingarm to the center of the axle. Chain and sprockets seem to be a good starting point, so I will go ahead and order those first. I am guessing they are originals from the factory, so certainly can't hurt even if the problem ends up being something different. |
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April 6th, 2015, 06:54 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: West Texas
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 13
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Sorry to hear that! Guess I will read up on the best way to align this thing! What method did you use, and what are you doing this time?
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April 6th, 2015, 07:09 PM | #17 | |
Vanilla Gorilla
Name: Jason
Location: Western Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2012 Motorcycle(s): '11 Triumph Sprint GT & '06 625SMC Posts: 79
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Quote:
I typically use line of sight along with my axle block markers ( which have never been dead nuts on any bike I've owned, but gets you in the ballpark ). With the bike on a rear stand, I get down to where I can look down the top run of the chain from rear to front and check how straight it is. If it arcs one direction or another, I adjust it until it's straight. Bike in neutral, roll the rear tire by hand and check it a couple times more to make sure and fine tune if needed. |
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April 6th, 2015, 11:33 PM | #18 | |
.
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.
MOTM - July '15
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Quote:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ho...rage-tech-tips And, I just took the bike for a spin and got lost and went over 80 miles, and there is no noise at all coming from back there. My drivetrain is happy. The reason I only counted the bolts before was because my tires are weird and it was hard to tie the string around it in an exact horizontal line (the string kept wanting to fall into the tread pattern on only one side), so depending on your tire, you may have to get creative with how you tie it. |
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April 7th, 2015, 08:41 AM | #19 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: West Texas
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 13
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Thanks for all the help. I am going to check alignment today since there is virtually no cost. I will order a new chain and sprockets on Thursday.
Is there a preference between the 14T and the 15T front sprocket? All the kits I see are 14T/45T, so I would have to order separately if its really worth going 15T on front. |
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April 7th, 2015, 08:57 AM | #20 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 25
MOTM - Jun '17, May '16, Mar '15
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If you do a lot of highway miles I would recommend the 15T, if your mostly doing city/local I would stick with the 14T.
As I do mostly highway miles I went with 15T/43T.
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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April 7th, 2015, 09:27 AM | #21 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: West Texas
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 13
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Know of any charts that reference the speed/rpm difference for different sprocket size combinations?
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April 7th, 2015, 09:33 AM | #22 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Quote:
Riding with a worn chain is roll of the dice chance with time, and if it breaks, it will be a dance with the devil. Since yea... it's just a 250, so you chances of the chain braking are somewhat diminished, it can still happen. Soaking it overnight will buy you some time, but that is all.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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April 7th, 2015, 09:36 AM | #23 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Quote:
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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April 7th, 2015, 10:15 AM | #24 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: West Texas
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 13
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Quote:
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April 7th, 2015, 01:46 PM | #25 | |
.
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.
MOTM - July '15
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Quote:
And, for what it's worth, if you need to replace parts, I bought this chain: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 This front sprocket: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And this rear sprocket: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 They all come together in one package, because they're all in the same amazon warehouse. Last futzed with by MrAtom; April 7th, 2015 at 03:42 PM. |
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April 7th, 2015, 03:08 PM | #26 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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You pinged!
For me personally, I think installing taller gearing is one of the best modifications for the NInjette if you ride on freeways a lot and are interested in getting great fuel economy. I run a 15T/37T on my partially streamlined 2005 Ninjette ( 70 mph @6500 rpm, best tankfill 111 mpg) and I run 15T/33T on my fully sreamlined 1999 Ninjette ( 70mph@ 5900 rpm, best tankfill 187 mpg) . I have found that the 15t/37T combo is about the maximum one can change to without totally killing your acceleration capabilities. Running 15T/33T makes your Ninjette a dog without full streamlining. You do have to slip the clutch more than stock but I have never yet needed to replace a clutch after running with very tall gearing for over 30K miles. I have encountered uphill starts that were too steep for my 15/33 combo to work on but it was very steep.
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235 MPG Hypermotorcycling to a better tomorrow |
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