June 29th, 2015, 06:12 AM | #1 |
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Name: Mick
Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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Newgen motor in a Pregen Frame - Thoughts?
G'day Everyone,
Looking at putting a 2012 newgen motor into my 2006 pregen frame. I haven't been able to find any reasonable condition pregen motors within 1000kms and shipping costs to get a motor freighted to where are astronomical (I live in remote aust) Just wondering if anyone has attempted this recently or has any photos of the required modifications (understood to primarily be the exhaust headers, front engine mount and oil pressure sensor connector.) Will I need to adjust or rejet the pregen carbies? Any issues or pitfalls I should look out for if I go ahead with the conversion? Is this a worthwhile exercise or should I wait and keep looking for a suitable pregen motor? Cheers Mick |
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June 29th, 2015, 07:10 AM | #2 |
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It's an easy fit.
All the electrics plug in. You will need to change the exhaust. And the upper motor mount is different. And the radiator mounts to the upper mount. I would use a new mount and change the radiator mounting tabs. Also the metal coolant tube coming out of the top new engine is curved. The old gen pipe is streight. Use a new o ring and sealer when replacing this as it tends to be tricky to seal. If you run pod filters use the rubber manifolds from a new gen as they are shorted and tuned for the engine . There are a couple little things I might Be forgetting . But I think that's it.
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June 29th, 2015, 07:58 AM | #3 |
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Welcome Mick!
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July 8th, 2015, 09:07 AM | #4 |
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How much trouble would it be to fit a 300r engine in a pregen frame.
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July 10th, 2015, 08:01 AM | #5 |
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Name: Pedro
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July 10th, 2015, 08:31 AM | #6 | |
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Quote:
then again I was surprised at how much easier it is to put a newgen engine in a pregen than I thought
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July 10th, 2015, 01:53 PM | #7 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Pedro
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Quote:
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July 10th, 2015, 03:02 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
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only slight modification to the front engine mount. Everything else fits. I got a full motor with ecu etc. Only thing i needed was a fuel pump. Runs like a new bike 2014 300 motor in a 1990 pregen frame.
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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July 13th, 2015, 03:19 PM | #9 |
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Name: bob
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Very cool. Where'd you scoop the parts from and what did you do for the engine mount mod? I'm guessing you used the 300 rad and all that as well.
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July 13th, 2015, 09:53 PM | #10 |
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I would suggest using a Honda TRX500 Rancher (four wheeler) fuel pump.
I've used the Rancher fuel pump on two fuel injection conversion projects, my 2005 Kawasaki EX250 and my 1993 Suzuki GSF400 Bandit. The TRX pump is a great product and surprisingly cheap to buy from the major parts suppliers. Here it is mounted in my Suzuki GSF400 during an early stage of the build: |
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January 6th, 2016, 02:56 PM | #11 |
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@EMSRacer07 do you have any more info on your swap for the 300r motor swap?
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January 6th, 2016, 03:11 PM | #12 | |
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Name: Byron
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Quote:
And got a great deal on ebay from a wrecked out bike. got just about everything.
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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January 6th, 2016, 03:12 PM | #13 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Byron
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Quote:
Also I have had it installed for almost 2 year and no incidents or did it leave me on the side of the road. Reliable 90' bike
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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January 6th, 2016, 03:12 PM | #14 |
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Keep us updated on the outcome please!!
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January 7th, 2016, 07:38 AM | #15 |
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Name: Shoulder Blade
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What's the differences in power between newgen and pregen?
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January 7th, 2016, 09:15 AM | #16 |
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Why would you want a newgen motor in the pregen frame? I want a high compression pregen motor in a newgen frame.
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January 7th, 2016, 11:02 AM | #17 | |
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Better at holding valve lash/no risk of overtightening the lock nut on the rocker arm. You may scoff, but look at how many people do it. More electrical overhead for accessories. More power when doing typical bolt-on mods, like intake/exhaust. Lower CR means less risk of knocking with bad gas. They don't seem to get the Kawi tick as bad as the pregen does. The oil pan holds ever so slightly more oil. Also, the drain plug is threaded into the pan vs the pregen threading the oil plug straight into the bottom of the case. Again, you laugh, but look how many users have stripped this out. More aftermarket parts support for the newer engine. Clutch plates and springs, cams, timing changes, lightened flywheels, pistons, rods, etc. Pregen parts are starting their slide into unicorn-dom. More mid range power from the factory. That's real world power, from 6,000-10,000 rpm. The pregen is fun being so high strung, but most of us don't redline the bike every shift, every time we ride. It's obnoxious to your neighbors. It's possible to be very fast on street and keep it at a sane 6,000 and 10,000 rpm all day long like clockwork. Different way of attaching the drive sprocket. No more silly clip that's easily bendable. Just a locking nut, as is standard on nearly all modern bikes. All of these things individually are solvable if you pay for them. But when you can get the whole package at once for so little money, why not? |
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January 7th, 2016, 11:13 AM | #18 | |
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Quote:
However, people like me who when they ride their bikes are always trying to eke the most power out of it, and don't care about the loss of midrange are the ones who would do a motor swap, and not many people who would do a motor swap would be swapping the motor for noise and reliability issues. (Atleast not that I have heard of).
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January 7th, 2016, 11:19 AM | #19 |
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January 7th, 2016, 11:25 AM | #20 |
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Because Unregistered sucks at riding.
Edit: If you are confused log out and look at this.
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January 7th, 2016, 11:28 AM | #21 |
The Corner Whisperer
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It uses the same science as below. Don't believe me? Put your finger between the posts.
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January 7th, 2016, 12:21 PM | #22 |
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January 7th, 2016, 02:04 PM | #23 |
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January 7th, 2016, 03:05 PM | #24 |
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January 7th, 2016, 05:16 PM | #25 | |
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January 7th, 2016, 05:20 PM | #26 | |
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January 7th, 2016, 05:33 PM | #27 | ||
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So is it ported, polished, or ported and polished? Make up your mind. Clip-on's...? As in... aftermarket lowered/forward handle bars that tons of people have...? |
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January 7th, 2016, 05:38 PM | #28 |
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When I first got the bike I cleaned up the casting flaws I cleaned up the ports, now I took the head off to actually do some work. So its not ported yet... But I'm going to do it, just haven't gotten the time. And when I was getting clipons everyone said that they wouldnt fitz they would be to far forward, and it would be uncomfortable, I put them on and love how far forward it is. I know almost nothing you do would be a pioneer, but I think I'm at least a little original. I can't find anything on anybody raising compression on the pregen, JE didn't get back with me as far as pistons, RacerX doesn't know anything, my options seem to be to deck my cylinder, and design my own combustion chamber.
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January 8th, 2016, 08:11 AM | #29 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Shoulder Blade
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Putting newgen into pregen frame will require a custom exhaust.
Question: If I wanted a single sided exhaust, will it create too much back pressure? Will I lose power by deleting the exhaust on one side? Theoretically, I should be good with just a hi-flow muffler, correct? |
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January 8th, 2016, 09:05 AM | #30 |
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Start by copying aftermarket tubing diameters, if possible. There's plenty of info in the interwebs about diameters for aftermarket exhaust systems on the newgen. Start there and mimic a little bit.
Obviously don't make it 1/2" diameter for the combined section and you'll be fine. Plenty of people have done all kinds of weird and strange looking exhausts for the pregen. It will run, may just require a little rejetting. |
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January 8th, 2016, 09:11 AM | #31 |
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If possible I would start with or copy the begining part of a newgen header, because the exact length that the two pipes merge into each other is important. Other than that, they have formulas for exhaust diameter and expected HP, the smaller the more velocity at lower rpm, the larger the less restriction at higher rpm.
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February 7th, 2016, 10:52 AM | #32 |
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I have come to the conclusion that I would kill for a 300R engine in my 2006 pregen. Because my pregen fits like a glove, and is comfortable for me. But I want the updated FI engine.
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February 7th, 2016, 10:58 AM | #33 |
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So go for it.
But, and I'm sure you don't want to hear this, the 300 has the same ergonomic fit, better tire choices, and better aftermarket support. If you want basically the same bike with the 300 engine and smoothness, just get the newer bike. If your pregen motor is already a problem child and you're in the market for a new engine anyway... then the 300 swap doesn't seem so bad. But I wouldn't tear apart a perfectly fine pregen to make it happen. Idk, just me; and I'm the guy who's already spent way more/done more work on his ninja than realistically should have. |
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February 7th, 2016, 12:54 PM | #34 | |
ninjette.org guru
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Quote:
Anyway, back to actual swap details. |
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February 7th, 2016, 03:07 PM | #35 | |
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The ergo's are nearly identical. Seriously. You'll never notice a difference stock to stock. If you do, you won't be in any discomfort based on the riding position alone. |
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June 26th, 2016, 04:26 AM | #36 | |
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July 1st, 2016, 03:49 AM | #37 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Ivy
Location: Devon, England
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Hi all, this is a great forum I have been reading for a while now and would like to ask about this engine swap.
I have a ZZR250 in the UK and was considering fitting a post '08 motor but after reading all the specs I see the newgen motor has a different ignition timing curve. i.e. the pregen has a fair bit more advance. I can't remember the exact difference but it was significant. I found the specs. again, preden advance = 42 degrees at 4500 rpm. newgen advance = 38 degrees at 6000 rpm Is this going to be problem? How do your bikes perform with a newgen motor running with a pregen CDI etc. Thanks for any help you can offer. Ivy. Last futzed with by ZZRIvy; July 1st, 2016 at 04:50 AM. Reason: More info. |
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July 1st, 2016, 07:56 AM | #38 |
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If you read back, when the 2008 bike came out, people were swapping the CDI from the '94 and older bikes with the more advanced timing. Then the BRT-TiS came out for the 2008-2012 bikes, also with more advanced timing.
The bike responded well to it per people's reviews. Search for the BRT-TiS aftermarket ECU. |
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July 1st, 2016, 10:31 AM | #39 | |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Ivy
Location: Devon, England
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A further question before I invest in a new engine. As all the UK newgens are injected, can you see any problems running carbs with a rejet if necessary? I don't want the expense or trouble of having to convert to an injection system. Thanks again, Ivy. |
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July 1st, 2016, 12:31 PM | #40 | |
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