Loud pipes

[Jerry]

I guess there may be times when someone hears a pipe, and doesn't injure a biker. My *opinion* and my guess is that it is rare. But it happens. A thumb on the horn will only alert the ones you see, and, well, pipes alert everybody.

But they alert everybody, all the time, and that's annoying to a lot of mototcyclist, and pretty much all non-bikers.

If I drove in a lot of traffic, and especially stop and go traffic, I could see the benefit. I would want to be heard, not cause I'm a poser, but it seems safer.

(and it's cool, and kids love it...)

But I drive through the sticks, at night, Three-four nights a week, for some years. I don't really want to irritate some old guy trying to sleep three nights a week. He might just throw some sand in the road, or oil, or do much worse. That's an argument for quiet pipes, in my opinion.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Jerry

That's an argument for quiet pipes, in my opinion.

there's no argument... just people stating their opinions.

[Flashmonkey]

As a pregen rider with a muzzy full pipe system (probably the loudest exhaust system ever made for the 250), I'd like to throw my 2 cents.

There have been numerous instances where I have used a few blips of my throttle, instead of my horn, to wake up doddling motorists at stop lights, or warn "blackberry-ing" pedestrians that they're about to cross against the light and get run over by my motorcycle. Obviously, in these instances, these people heard my pipe....loud and clear. Also, I do admit that I kind of enjoy the noise while farting around town. It makes me feel kinda cool.

That being said, I've also had a number of attempts on my life by inattentive motorists. Everything from the usual people-trying-to-change-lanes-into-me thing...to one very determined Audi driver who tried to turn left into me (onto me?), despite the fact that I was already directly in front of him, honking my horn and giving him the finger. Coming home late at night also sucks. I feel like a giant douche as I thunder through my neighbourhood at 3 in the morning. Yes, upshifting kinda helps, but with the wonderful muzzy can, this bike is louder than hell at any rpm...including idle. I even had a near run in with the police because of this pipe....and don't even get me started on what this thing sounds like after 2 hours on the highway at 10k rpm.

I've only been riding for about 6 months, and in that time have only put on a scant 5000 miles. Unbelievably, however, I have seen a lot in those 5000 miles, as most of those have come from my commute from a Toronto suburb, to the chaotic and disorganized city centre core where I work. I've done this commute on both the highway, and the side streets....in both the wet and the dry. I've dodged street cars, wet street car tracks, insane taxi drivers, half asleep motorists checking their emails and drinking coffee, lost subcontractors driving vans with no windows, and frustrated bus drivers trying to wedge their massive buses between moving traffic and illegally parked cars blocking entire lanes. I've had plenty of time and ample opportunity to test this theory that loud pipes save lives. Granted, I still have many miles to ride and many lessons to learn, but I've noticed this so far: whenever I ride away cleanly from a "close call", not once did I ever find myself saying "Boy...it's a good thing I have this loud a$$ exhaust on my bike...or I'd be dead right now!".....not once.

The bottom line is that if a motorist isn't paying attention, they're not going to hear your exhaust. No matter how loud it is. Selective hearing is a dangerous thing. It's your God given right to go out and get a ridiculously loud pipe, but at least be realistic in your reasons for getting one. If you want to keep yourself safe, don't rely on your "mods" to save your life.

And please keep the discussions civil. Throwing pseudo-scientific reasoning across the internet, peppered with creative swear words and personal attacks will get you nowhere.

Oh and Alex....

Originally Posted by Alex

hehehe...I thought this was funny

[Hedge36]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

The bottom line is that if a motorist isn't paying attention, they're not going to hear your exhaust. No matter how loud it is. Selective hearing is a dangerous thing. It's your God given right to go out and get a ridiculously loud pipe, but at least be realistic in your reasons for getting one. If you want to keep yourself safe, don't rely on your "mods" to save your life.

Ding. Winner. You've realized in 5000 miles what it took me about 500,000 to figure out

[Flashmonkey]

Wow that's a lot of mileage! Commuting tends to teach certain lessons faster...but I find that I also pick up a lot of bad habits because of it....like *cough*lanesplitting*cough*....

I definitely see why people give up on commuting altogether, but I'm not at that point yet.

[Hedge36]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

Wow that's a lot of mileage! Commuting tends to teach certain lessons faster...but I find that I also pick up a lot of bad habits because of it....like *cough*lanesplitting*cough*....

I definitely see why people give up on commuting altogether, but I'm not at that point yet.

Up until a couple months ago I enjoyed the benefits of lanesplitting on a daily basis for 20 years Nothing makes you appreciate it more than moving to, say, Dallas.

[capt_bugaloo]

Originally Posted by Hedge36

Loud pipes don't save lives. Smart riding, reading the intentions of the cages around you, being proactive and remaining seen... that's what saves lives.

The day I have to rely on my bike's exhaust noise to keep me out of harm's way is the day I turn in my keys and hang up my helmet.

Yeah. What he said.

[Cedilla]

^At least it should be legal to lane split it Texas soon.

Out of all the loud pipes on the road, only the very loudest, annoy me a tad. I usually enjoy the sound of loud pipes, even at home when im trying to sleep. I did have one instance that pissed me off, I was in the cage going up a mountain on a 4 lane high way, with the windows down, when all of the sudden a Harley with straight pipes flew past me, did not hear him coming up on me, but the 1/10th sec he was beside me was so loud, and it startled me so much if I would have not been wearing my seatbelt I would have jumped right out of my sunroof. If he had been beside me much longer, I think my ear drums would have poped right out of my ear. That is the only instance I can think of, that I was ever annoyed b/c of loud pipes.(I was fairly pissed at that biker, but thats no reason to make what he did illegal.)

IMO the only things that should be illegal, are things that can hurt others, being rude should not be a crime, E-V-E-R. When lawmakers decide to outlaw things that are just rude/"immoral"(not just talking about loud pipes here) We are needlessly losing already fast disappearing freedoms.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by kkim

there's no argument... just people stating their opinions.

Yeah, I coulda phrased that a little less hypocritically, I guess.

And just when I was starting to see some merit in the "saves lives" viewpoint...

Tough Crowd

[Hedge36]

Originally Posted by Cedilla

^At least it should be legal to lane split it Texas soon.

Of course. Just as I'm considering taking a job in Gadsden

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Hedge36

Up until a couple months ago I enjoyed the benefits of lanesplitting on a daily basis for 20 years Nothing makes you appreciate it more than moving to, say, Dallas.

Try Toronto, where lanesplitting is considered "stunting" or "street racing" and may result in your vehicle getting confiscated...

[Racer x]

I was out on a ride today .A squirrel with a big nut was running into the street . I pulled mu clutch and gave the engine a rev . The little woodland creature turned tail and ran back to the woods.
Just goes to show . Loud pipes do save lives. It made me smile and think of this thread.

[Greg_E]

I just got my new to me Buell XB9R, it still has the Jardine after market "muffler" on it...


It's damn loud! Got to get the stock exhaust on there pronto! I can't believe they actually call it a muffler, at best it just keeps any fire from coming out the end of the pipe.

[danknation]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I was out on a ride today .A squirrel with a big nut was running into the street . I pulled mu clutch and gave the engine a rev . The little woodland creature turned tail and ran back to the woods.
Just goes to show . Loud pipes do save lives. It made me smile and think of this thread.

Glad to see someone is watching out for the little guys!

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by danknation

Glad to see someone is watching out for the little guys!

Always.

Did you get the stock muffler with the Buell. The stock exhaust was heavy and had a tendency to crack . That is why most come with that LOUD pipe.

[Greg_E]

Yes stock muffler will hopefully go back on today. The cracking was on the older ones that were mounted to the frame, on the XB they fixed that by mounting it to the paint shaker engine so that it all moved as one part (or so I'm told). They are indeed heavy, part of that is because they wanted to be able to lift the bike with a jack under the muffler.

Also why most had at least the factory racing muffler is most people felt it didn't have enough power with the stock muffler. And lets face it, it is sold at a Harley shop and a great number of buyers are in the loud pipes save lives club. The two best pipes were the factory race muffler and the full micron system with a slight nod to the micron for best power curve and peak horsepower, and of course the 10+ pounds of weight saved.

[nate-bama]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Actually, I live in a residential area, in town, with a posted speed limit of 25 (which is ignored)

There seems to be no room in this forum for people who have different opinions, I for one am not bothered by loud pipes, if you live near a airport or a train route you'd know you get used to the noise. You live in a town which means other people and noise. I/m sure there's a few in maine who ride and would be affected by your legislation and the majority of them would'nt give a damn to break the noise law

[Alex]

Originally Posted by nate-bama

There seems to be no room in this forum for people who have different opinions

This couldn't be further from the truth. There's plenty of room for as many different opinions as we all want here. When we transition from sharing our differing opinions into attacking eachother rather than our opinions, that's the only time we are bringing this board down and flouting the rules we've all agreed to.

[shadow]

This thread has given me a bit of knowledge, quite amounts of amusement, and I'm seeing more of

than a blog-cast of a gossip-girls episode. Valid points, but it seems
A) A loud pipe is an alternate to Enzyte. Seriously. Ever check your pants after riding past scantily-clad urbanite ladies revving your motor?
B) It will not save riders lives, grammie can't hear it in her caddie (so why would we worry about waking up the rest of them at 2am in the residentials ;-)), but it does save the wildlife. PETA might stand up for loud pipes, or at least bypass their complaint of pollution if you bring up that point :-P
C) the system works on Compliant people. Most people who put obscene exhausts on their bike are walking outside the boundaries of the system anyways (speeding, streetracing, stunting, not like I know of any of this REALLY happening ), and the current Law Enforcement is comprised of HUMANS, who, largely, unfortunately, are on a bit of an ego-trip, and since unsupervised for hours with nobody higher than THEM to control their actions, are left to their own personal opinions on who to pull over. Give them a bigger stick, how're they gonna use it?
Sorry for the sarcasm here, and a bit misanthropic reaction. Just my ol 2c.

[TrueFaith]

The "loud pipes save lives" thing is ingrained into the bike culture and won't go away soon. The Boston Globe online ran a story about a bike accident last week and 10 people commented on it. 6 of the 10 comments contained "loud pipes save lives" in the text. It one of those things that people believe regardless of any proof otherwise.
Massachusetts is considering a law that will allow police to pull over any bike they think is too loud. If it has an aftermarket pipe you get a ticket, even if it's passed noise tests and has a valid inspection sticker. I doubt the proposed law will pass, but it shows how bad the problem is becoming.

[Kawasabi]

Originally Posted by Hedge36

He's no different than any other cage on the road: they're ALL out to get you. Treat them all that way, ride smart, and it won't matter a hoot how much noise your bike does or doesn't make.

Without the noise he might of been telling the story of how he went down instead of how a situation got avoided, thank the loud pipe on this one. I live in NYC where you don't see people's driveways because they are hidden by all the parked cars on the streets. And if you are the one pulling out, you don't see anything until your car is half into the street, so for a quiet bike it is quite detrimental. Read my lips and try to comprehend, loud pipes saves lives!
Posted via Mobile Device

Someone asked me to edit this post........... NO.

WHY?? Anyone can disagree with anything anyone says, no problem, can't please everyone, right? For crying out loud, please don't ask others to "edit" their opinions!

[Hedge36]

Originally Posted by Kawasabi

Without the noise he might of been telling the story of how he went down instead of how a situation got avoided, thank the loud pipe on this one. I live in NYC where you don't see people's driveways because they are hidden by all the parked cars on the streets. And if you are the one pulling out, you don't see anything until your car is half into the street, so for a quiet bike it is quite detrimental. Read my lips and try to comprehend, loud pipes saves lives!
Posted via Mobile Device

Someone asked me to edit this post........... NO.

WHY?? Anyone can disagree with anything anyone says, no problem, can't please everyone, right? For crying out loud, please don't ask others to "edit" their opinions!

I can't read your lips - they're too far away.

We'll just have to disagree on this one. My position is that the responsibility for avoiding accidents rests on my Mark I Eyeball and good reflexes, not on the perceived volume of my exhaust. And you know as well as I do that the whole "loud pipes" issue is going to be put to rest through legislation sooner or later - the same arguments have been used with regard to helmets for years, and you don't see a shortage of states adopting helmet laws these days.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Hedge36

I can't read your lips - they're too far away.

We'll just have to disagree on this one. My position is that the responsibility for avoiding accidents rests on my Mark I Eyeball and good reflexes, not on the perceived volume of my exhaust. And you know as well as I do that the whole "loud pipes" issue is going to be put to rest through legislation sooner or later - the same arguments have been used with regard to helmets for years, and you don't see a shortage of states adopting helmet laws these days.

Actually the helmet thing is still 50/50 in that just as many states have taken down helmet laws in recent years as put them up. I know for a fact that PA USED to have a helmet law but in the past 3 or so years they voted it out.

I agree in that you should not count on loud pipes to save you. However, I also agree that in certain cases where there is no way for either party to see one another until the last second the sound does help increase the chances of you being noticed. If you can't picture the situation he is describing then you won't understand where he's coming from. I can see it clearly because I've seen the same thing.

A heavily wooded, twisty road with a hidden driveway or road right at the end of a tight blind curve where you can NOT see anything coming through the curve at all until it's right on top of you. That means that the person in the curve also can NOT see you at all until right on top of you when exiting the turn. In this case you NEED to listen for any sounds of any type of motor vehicle coming from that direction. Therefore in this particular case a louder vehicle will give more of a warning then a quiet one. Does this happen often? No, but it does happen from time to time in wooded mountain areas (like PA) and ANYTHING you can do to be noticed in any shape or form is one more notch in your own safety.

Does this apply to super ultra loud pipes that are on bikes in towns or cities that never see a twisty road? No it does not. Do you NEED to have painfully loud pipes? No, you do not. Do they help when most of your driving is on mostly flat, straight, city or highway type roads? No, they don't do much to help because there's already so much ambient noise that by the time they can hear you they can already see you. Then when you pass the real loudness comes to bear just making you loud and obnoxious.

So in conclusion, in probably 85-90% of most cases the "loud pipes saves lives" does NOT apply and is just an excuse. But there is still that 10-15% where hearing the bike when it is impossible to see it because of terrain does save a life.

There, I've had my say.

[Hedge36]

I see your point, sombo - and trust me, I've had plenty of blind-curve, moron-not-looking situations to deal with. But yes, 80-90% of the time, the exhaust noise probably isn't gonna do much to save your skin if the cager is really that aloof.

The problem with this entire argument is that nobody has ever been able to produce numbers - in a real study - that would sway believers or non-believers either way. And since numbers and studies and crap like that are what the lawyers will drag into state legislature hearings to make their cases, the only thing left is the vocal complaint of Everyday Joe who takes offense to the kid next door who insists on blipping his needs-to-be-repacked Two Brothers can at 5AM while his bike warms up.

Squeaky wheels get the grease. Everybody might as well lube themselves now, because I predict things are gonna get a helluva tighter in the next couple of years. The TUV model in Germany is likely where we're headed - there's just too much pork money involved to keep this at bay.

[Greg_E]

Likely to happen, I think that leaves too much doubt. I think something similar is almost certain in most states in the US. Emissions will grow tighter (the 09 Ninja 250 already has a cat.) and it is about one step away from all engines over XXcc will need to be FI with a cat just like all the cars on the road. That will also certainly contain sound level legislation along with the EPA for emissions. On a bike it is hard to design the exhausts so that you have a good flow overhead like you can do on many cars, so there won't be much choice but to live with the stock exhaust and intake. The good news would be that with FI and a cat. they should be able to run the engines at the proper A/F ratio instead of the slightly lean condition that most are now running, so they may perform a little better out of the box.

[Hedge36]

My cat-equipped FI bikes are indeed a lot more sporty off the showroom floor than the equivalent carbureted models, that's for sure, though the fuel maps tend to run on the lean side. At least it takes less monkeying around to tweak that.

[M-Oorb]

Ok so I've been reading this thread and decided to finally post. I have an area P 15in and yes its a little louder then stock...buts its also quiter then the guys stock f430 who lives next to me...so why should mine be illegal?

Now,exessivly loud pipes are annoying. I don't enjoy when a pack of harleys roll by ith straight pipes and you can hear them down the road and they disrupt your dinner while eating outside. You know what else gets to me though? Grundge and goth kids with there huge leather boots and huge spiked hair and all their pericings. Every time they walk by me I feel a little uncomfortable.

I see your point alex and I respect it...but my point is this. We live in America and should value freedom. The will of the majority should not trump the freedoms of the minority. Yes its annoying and irratating but that's all it is...physical or mental harm associated with this is not likely in most cases. So we should abide by a value all americans hold dear and let freedom reign...ill suck it up when a kid with a bajillion earings and an anarchist shirt walks by cause I kno he's happy
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hedge36]

Originally Posted by M-Oorb

The will of the majority should not trump the freedoms of the minority.

This being America, the will of the majority will always trump the freedoms of the minority.

It's called "voting".

[M-Oorb]

Someone never took a political science class or ever had to read the constitution. I can name 10 ways off the top of my head that the freedom of the minority is protected...the whole point of our system is to protect the minority from the force of others. That's why so mant states don't follow californias lead and have referendums.

I think you missed the point of my above thread but its all good...back on topic
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hedge36]

Originally Posted by M-Oorb

Someone never took a political science class or ever had to read the constitution. I can name 10 ways off the top of my head that the freedom of the minority is protected...the whole point of our system is to protect the minority from the force of others. That's why so mant states don't follow californias lead and have referendums.

I think you missed the point of my above thread but its all good...back on topic
Posted via Mobile Device

Sarcasm is so lost on the innerwebs. Sigh.

That said, noise is considered "pollution" by many municipalities, and as such isn't protected as a "freedom". In such cases, the "minority" is simply relegated to law-breaker status - that's what's happening here. And THAT, my friend, will be vote-driven. The vocal majority will win that battle.

[Alex]

Kawasabi, your posts clearly violate the TOS. I've told you exactly why. Please edit them as requested, or review the repercussions area of the TOS. Link in my sig.

[TrueFaith]

I can only go by my own experience. I live in a development that is about 70% elderly retirees. I also have a non quiet core Area-P pipe. When those geezers are cruising in their Buicks you could set off a bomb under their car and they wouldn't hear it. Especially if they're listening to Perry Como on the radio. They point the car and drive and will run over anything that gets in their way, most times without even realizing it until a cop stops them. Loud pipes don't matter at all if you get in front of one of those people and with all the Baby Boomers that are retiring now there's more on the road every day.

[Alex]

Kawasabi's on a 7-day break for a TOS Violation; sections 1.4 & 2.1.

[Talonne]

Loud pipes do irritate me. I am also annoyed by people who clip their nails on public transit, rap music, and door-to-door salesmen. Doesn't mean any of these should be illegal.

I'm in the "Loud pipes do NOT save lives" camp.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by ducducgooseit

I appreciate being made aware of hostile environments. I now know to avoid the town of Belfast, Maine. I now know that I will spend neither any tourist dollars there nor any infrastructure dollars there and certainly no essential needs dollars there.

The town will thrive without my money.

Oh yeah..... this is my favorite post of the entire thread! Kudos to you, duc.

[CZroe]

"It's just for decoration ya'll. Dat's it and dat's all. Just fo' decoration!" -Lil' Sis

...just before tearing out into the street, running a stop sign, cutting off other drivers and having a near head-on collision in the oncoming lane all so that the news cameras could hear her new noisy exhaust modification.

At least she admits that "whistle tips" have no practical purpose.

Originally Posted by nate-bama

There seems to be no room in this forum for people who have different opinions, I for one am not bothered by loud pipes, if you live near a airport or a train route you'd know you get used to the noise. You live in a town which means other people and noise. I/m sure there's a few in maine who ride and would be affected by your legislation and the majority of them would'nt give a damn to break the noise law

I lived literally 15 yards from railroad tracks with several trains passing nightly between 3-5AM (with an intersection so horns BLASTING) and it doesn't compare to working during the day and living in SoCal with all the bikes waking me up all damned day. Of course, it's also construction, landscaping, car alarms, etc, but the motorcycles are the biggest part by far. For example, they are often responsible for setting off car alarms. The typical '70s/'80s apartment or condo units here sounds like it has no windows due to nice weather requiring minimal weather striping. The weather also makes motorcycles extremely popular in the city.

[tapdiggy]

Originally Posted by ducducgooseit

I appreciate being made aware of hostile environments. I now know to avoid the town of Belfast, Maine. I now know that I will spend neither any tourist dollars there nor any infrastructure dollars there and certainly no essential needs dollars there.

The town will thrive without my money.

+1.

[Greg_E]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[AnarchoMoltov]

Originally Posted by greg_e

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2le5_...layer_embedded

for the love of god, think of the kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sailariel]

We will be debating a noise ordinance in the next session of the city council. The ordinance will be enforced between 10 PM and 7 AM--decibel level to be determined after a study. Seems like a good compromise and people will be able to get some sleep in the summer months.