October 10th, 2009, 09:57 AM | #1 |
RedNinja09
Name: Chris
Location: Carol Stream IL
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 67
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Winterizing the Bike. Full Tank of Gas Or Empty ?
Hey all,
This is my first year with my wonderful Ninja. The weather here sucks in the Chicagoland area and I am finally starting to accept that I am going to have to pack up the bike for the winter. I am going to call my bike mechanic friend to ask what to do. But... I thought I would ask here first. Should I gas her up while it is nicer to a full tank or run it empty ? I know I have to put stable in it but I am just not sure if I should fill her up or not... Thanks. Red
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October 10th, 2009, 10:11 AM | #2 |
Cat herder
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Owner's manual says drain the tank and run the bike until it dies.
Conventional wisdom around here says full to the brim, and drain the carbs manually. Take your pick. The logic behind keeping it full is that an empty tank can get condensation inside it and start to rust. I wonder, though... if you leave the cap open and cover the opening so nothing can fall in, then the tank should stay bone-dry, right? Some also advocate draining the tank to remove the stabilized fuel and re-filling with fresh gas in the spring. Also change your oil now, then drain that oil and put fresh in next spring. Regarding Sta-Bil... there are two kinds. The pink stuff that you often find doesn't work well with gas that has ethanol in it. Get the Marine Formula instead. It's blue-green. |
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October 10th, 2009, 10:34 AM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: terry
Location: SW fla
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2007 250r Posts: 94
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My 2006 manual says. "Remove and empty tank, pour 1/2 pint motor oil in tank and roll around to coat inner surfaces thoroughly , and pour out excess.
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October 10th, 2009, 10:39 AM | #4 |
RedNinja09
Name: Chris
Location: Carol Stream IL
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 67
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Hmmmm, well I will have to see what the boys are Kawasaki say. I am NOT ready to do anything yet. I am hoping for at least ONE more decent day to ride. We shall see.
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October 10th, 2009, 10:52 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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tank full.
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October 10th, 2009, 12:06 PM | #6 |
=°°=
Name: Imran
Location: Bergen County, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Yamaha R6 / 2008 Green Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: 103
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fullllll
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October 10th, 2009, 04:10 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Arthur
Location: NoVA
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Either will work, but with the tank full you will, of course, need Sta-Bil or something similar.
If you empty it and coat the inside with oil, remember that the oil will eventually settle back down in the bottom of the tank... I might be tempted to periodically check on it, but at least this way there's no chance of having gas that gums up. |
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October 10th, 2009, 05:31 PM | #8 |
Some weird Canuck!
Name: Greg
Location: Ontario - Canada
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '92 CBR250RR "Babyblade", 2008 Ninja 250R, 2001 CBR600F4i Posts: 209
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Tank full, do not use Sta-bil. Use Seafoam. It works MUCH MUCH better. Pour half a can in to the gas tank, fill tank up and let bike run for 10 - 15 minutes. Get it in the carbs and such. Park the bike where you plan on storing it and fill the tank to the very brim.
Any air inside the tank can carry humidity and cause surface rust inside your tank. Surface rust is very very bad for carbs. I had the issue with my CBR250 this year. A tiny piece of rust clogged one of my pilot jets and cause the bike to run like crap.
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October 10th, 2009, 06:35 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Arthur
Location: NoVA
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of course another alternative is to store your bike empty in a nitrogen atmosphere. I've considered this. It's not very practical, but it'd be cool.
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October 10th, 2009, 07:17 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sean
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+1 for Seafoam and fill the tank. The other option would include moving a little south
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October 10th, 2009, 08:11 PM | #11 |
.
Name: rock
Location: greenville, south carolina
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): black Posts: A lot.
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Get sta-bil and follow the directions.
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October 10th, 2009, 08:13 PM | #12 |
Live Life
Name: Don
Location: Lincoln, NE
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Green SE Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Full tank with Sta-Bil because I still ride in the winter. I just don't let the tank level drop very far and NEVER use the ethanol blend since it likes to absorb water.
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October 10th, 2009, 11:29 PM | #13 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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I thought all gas stations were required to carry E10 blend in the US. Where can you buy gasoline sans Ethanol? Racing gas?
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October 11th, 2009, 12:52 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org dude
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Refining companies in the US are required by law to produce gasoline with a minimum percentage of ethanol across their entire production. It varies by company, but for most of the majors the minimum this past year was around 6%. That minimum does go up a smidge every year, but hasn't gone up much the past year or two. It's perfectly acceptable for companies to produce a whole pile of gasoline with 0% ethanol in it, as long as on average, their entire production of gasoline over the year, meets that particular minimum percentage for the company. On the high end, many states cap the amount of ethanol to be put in to standard gasoline at 10%, as more than 10% has the potential to cause performance and reliability issues in some vehicles that aren't designed for higher levels of ethanol in the fuel. Some states have started to look at raising that 10% cap to allow even more ethanol in standard gas, but both vehicle manufacturers and fuel refiners aren't so crazy about the idea.
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October 11th, 2009, 12:59 AM | #15 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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Thanks but, well, I still wonder: Where can I find E0?
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October 11th, 2009, 01:18 AM | #16 |
ninjette.org dude
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Ask around. It's possible there are stations in your area whose suppliers are providing gasoline with very little or even no ethanol included. It's somewhat more likely for folks to find less ethanol nearer the coasts compared to in the center of our country, as the transportation costs for the ethanol itself are much cheaper inland.
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October 11th, 2009, 01:19 AM | #17 |
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There are E0 stations in Cali?
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October 11th, 2009, 01:34 AM | #18 |
ninjette.org dude
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There must be somewhere. Most of the majors near me are including at least some amount of ethanol, judging by the warning stickers.
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October 11th, 2009, 01:44 AM | #19 |
ninjette.org dude
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I'll ping Annie on this one. CA gas does require an oxygenate, and now that MTBE is banned, ethanol is a very common oxygenate, perhaps the most common. To meet the oxygenate content, CA gas would require at least 5.7% ethanol. But there is currently no mandate for minimum ethanol content specifically. More detail on CARB's site here and here. In the second link, make sure to scroll down to the middle. At the top of the page it states that there is a minimum ethanol content, but it corrects itself halfway down.
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October 11th, 2009, 05:35 AM | #20 | |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
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Quote:
Fogging oil. |
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October 11th, 2009, 06:42 AM | #21 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Thomas
Location: Traverse City, MI
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I'm in the same process here as winter has decided to come early to Michigan. I guess the question that should be asked is, has anyone seen any damage from any of these methods? I've always put a full tank of gas and some type of stabilizer in the tank with all of my gas engines (lawn mowers, cars, motorcycles, etc.) and never seen any damage. It may run a little poorly first thing in the spring, but other than that, no issues. This issue seems to be predicated more on speculation rather than experience. Not ragging on anyone, just looking for actual examples. Most people will do whatever strikes thier fancy anyway.
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October 11th, 2009, 08:06 AM | #22 |
motorcycle rider
Name: Bruce
Location: Victoria, BC
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You can also fill the tank with Stabilized gasoline for the winter - and then drain it in spring. I've found that if I dump the old gas into the much larger tank of my car, the old gas mixes with the good stuff and causes no problems.
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October 11th, 2009, 09:05 AM | #23 | |
=°°=
Name: Imran
Location: Bergen County, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Yamaha R6 / 2008 Green Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: 103
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Quote:
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October 11th, 2009, 01:39 PM | #24 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Karl
Location: Ireland the Hawaii of Europe!
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isn't the ninjas tank plastic? plastic don't rust last i checked
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October 11th, 2009, 01:57 PM | #25 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sean
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No. Magnetic tank bags do not attach to plastic very well.
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October 11th, 2009, 01:57 PM | #26 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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October 11th, 2009, 02:53 PM | #27 |
Cat herder
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I hear they have a good supply of it over on the Jersey shore....
Seriously, in our area (northeast US) -- assuming the "Jersey" you're referring to isn't the one in England -- Advance Auto Parts should have it. At least the one I went to a couple of weeks ago did. |
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October 11th, 2009, 03:12 PM | #28 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Ace Hardware carries Marine-Stabil.
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October 11th, 2009, 04:15 PM | #29 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Greg
Location: central new york
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 90 Suzuki gsx600f Katana, 03 Buell XB9R Posts: 868
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I bought some Sea Foam on Thursday from an Autozone, they also had Stabil and marine Stabil on the shelf, plus some Lucas stuff and one other brand of gasoline cleaner stabilizer.
Seafoam says 1 ounce per gallon of fuel, it will run a littlle lean for that first tank unless you drain it out and fill with fresh gas. I wonder if 1/2 ounce per gallon would work, sure would make it run better in the spring. Make sure you run the engine long enough for the stabilized fuel to get into the carb, then you can drain the bowls or not. Draining is the safest way. If you are really concerned, you should pull the plugs and fog the cylinders then put the plugs back is to keep stuff out. Also plug the exhaust and the air cleaner. And if you are really into it, get some boat shrink wrap film and shrink the entire machine in a blue plastic cocoon. Don't forget to put the front and back end up on stands to keep the tires from getting flat spots too. |
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October 11th, 2009, 07:43 PM | #30 | |
Live Life
Name: Don
Location: Lincoln, NE
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Quote:
We still have a couple of dirt tracks in operation in the area so if you really wanted to there are a couple of stations that cater to the race cars and sell race fuel out of the drum.
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October 11th, 2009, 08:07 PM | #31 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Greg
Location: central new york
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There are a couple places around here that will pump 100+ leaded fuel from a drum for you, again catering to the racers that are still allowed to use the leaded fuel. More common is the 100+ unleaded race fuels which also come from the 55 gallon drums. For while there was an independent station that had 100+ on the actual pump.
Also you can go get super expensive av-gas from the airport. |
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October 11th, 2009, 08:37 PM | #32 | |
=°°=
Name: Imran
Location: Bergen County, NJ
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Quote:
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October 11th, 2009, 09:59 PM | #33 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Josh
Location: Richmond VA
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Winterizing? Just ride it year round!
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October 11th, 2009, 10:06 PM | #34 |
RedNinja09
Name: Chris
Location: Carol Stream IL
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 67
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Oh Reswob... I live outside of CHICAGO. We've been getting down to a balmy 39F the last few nights. SUCKS ! Too cold for me ! I dont want to be the Michelin man driving around geared out of my mind. Doesnt sound too fun to me.
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October 12th, 2009, 07:22 AM | #35 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Greg
Location: central new york
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Was below 30F this morning when I left for work.
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October 12th, 2009, 07:35 AM | #36 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Karl
Location: Ireland the Hawaii of Europe!
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Fuel Injected Model 2009 Posts: 357
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October 12th, 2009, 10:24 AM | #37 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Josh
Location: Richmond VA
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Triumph Bonneville Black Posts: 627
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Riding in the cold sucks, but even if you start the bike and let it run in your garage a little every week or so, it beats having to deal with winterizing.
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October 12th, 2009, 10:29 AM | #38 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
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Doing that can do more harm than good, because it promotes condensation.
You need to get the bike fully up to temperature, and that takes riding it 15 minutes or so. |
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October 12th, 2009, 11:51 AM | #39 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
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I'm just curious. How? Being colder than the surrounding air with its water vapor promotes condensation, which is the opposite of what warming it up will do. As far as I know, warming it up would not promote condensation except by burning a little gas which will slightly drain the tank and draw in more water vapor-laden air. Even then, I can't imagine that it would decrease the level of gas noticably unless it were accidentally left on, say, overnight or something. Is it because the small amount of air in the tank warms and expands, thus expelling to equalize pressure and causing a vacuum when it cools, thus new air is drawn in (with water vapor)?
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October 12th, 2009, 12:00 PM | #40 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
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It's not condensation in the tank that's the issue, it's condensation in the oil. There's always a little water vapor in the crankcase as it's not a sealed system. Running a bike up to temperature puts it right into vapor form and it escapes. If a bike is started and run a number of times, but never brought up to temp (which can't really happen without a little load on it), the condensation instead causes more and more water in the oil.
Is the amount significant? Who knows. But that's where the recommendation comes from not just starting a bike without the intention of riding it. The other reason is that without running the bike at operating speeds, it is draining the battery rather than recharging it; though that last problem can be dealt with by using a battery tender or other trickle charger during storage.
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