October 20th, 2016, 04:25 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Phil
Location: Pittsburgh
Join Date: May 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250R Posts: 60
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Upgrade or Complete Gear First?
When I first started riding, I got a bunch of gear at Cycle Gear, a leather jacket, gloves, and helmet, all their house Bilt brand. I realized after two years the gear is fairly cheap in quality (get what you pay for) and got some nice Alpine Stars gloves.
I now am budgeting another $500 to upgrade my gear. Should I buy the gear I don't have (I'm thinking boots are most important, but I also need pants and a back protector), or get better quality gear? The Bilt jacket actually seems fairly nice, but it's clearly not quite as high quality as my friend's Dianese gear. Am I basically safe in the cheap gear and should complete the set, or should I upgrade the important gear (Helmet/Jacket) first? |
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October 20th, 2016, 04:50 PM | #2 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
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If it were me I'd complete the gear first.
It is wise IMHO to dress for the crash. Close your eyes and imagine in as vivid detail as you can hitting the pavement and sliding/rolling/tumbling at 40+ mph or more. I will spare you the gory photos that you'll find all over the net by googling "road rash." What do you think will happen to your ankles, legs, knees, butt if you go down right now wearing street shoes and jeans, plus your BILT jacket? What do you think would happen to those parts of your body if you went down wearing the same shoes and pants but a $500 Dainese jacket? Any difference? Now imagine what would be different if you were wearing good boots and armored leather pants. It's tough to part with hundreds of dollars for gear. But that's a transitory inconvenience... in a year or two you won't even remember what it cost. Hospitalization, on the other hand, is staggeringly expensive and can be life-changing, both financially and personally -- and not in a good way. I wrote a couple of blog posts on this. Just my $0.02 on gear and the logic behind my personal choices. Check the link under my avatar.
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October 20th, 2016, 05:01 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Phil
Location: Pittsburgh
Join Date: May 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250R Posts: 60
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No argument here, I guess my worry is that the cheap gear may be almost as bad as no gear at all, but it sounds like you are weighing in more on the "cheap gear with full coverage is better than good gear with partial coverage" side?
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October 20th, 2016, 05:12 PM | #4 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
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Yes.
When you do upgrade (eventually you will), get the best gear you can. It'll be cheaper in the long run because you won't be replacing it very often.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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October 20th, 2016, 05:30 PM | #5 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Keep an eye on Craigslist for quality used gear. I've purchased 2 pairs of Sidi boots and a pair of A*s, all in good condition, for cheap. Boots are very important in my opinion.
Get some good boots and pants soon one way or the other. Your current gear is better than nothing - which is what you have on your legs/knees and feet. |
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October 20th, 2016, 05:36 PM | #6 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
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Finish the gear, Leather is the best way to go, and don't get a back protector unless you plan on racing. The right Jacket usually comes with something for your back.
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October 20th, 2016, 05:45 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Kevin
Location: Portland, OR
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Most jackets I've seen come with a useless bit of foam in the back (if anything at all). Alpinestars has a CE 2 rated back protector insert for their jackets for $50. Well worth the price of admission. You don't need to be racing to protect your back.
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October 20th, 2016, 06:03 PM | #8 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
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No reason NOT to get a good back protector insert. There are even Level 2 protectors now that are soft. Race protectors are typically separate pieces of gear with wide velcro waistbands and, usually, shoulder straps. That's different from the upgraded inserts designed to go into the pocket in your jacket. The latter are a major upgrade in protection. What rationale is there to avoid easily available, affordable protection?
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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October 20th, 2016, 06:11 PM | #9 |
The Asian Caucasian
Name: Abu Mishary Mohd Fairus
Location: Malaysia
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Worn a cheap but full gear and fell asleep when going through a corner. Woke up in a ditch. That price of gears could only get me a Pakistani leather jacket. Just imagine if I were to buy that jacket and only that jacket alone....
I might be sleeping never waking up.
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October 20th, 2016, 06:43 PM | #10 |
Certified looney toon
Name: Teri
Location: 39°52'40.7"N 118°23'53.8"W (Northern NV)
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If you are a member of ADVRider, also check their flea market. Usually some good gear in there for decent prices.
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October 20th, 2016, 06:54 PM | #11 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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I have 2 jackets, both have solid back protectors. but what is the purpose of back protectors?
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October 20th, 2016, 07:52 PM | #12 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Quote:
It helps spread the impact over a larger area vs a direct impact to a few vertebrae Some extend that coverage into the tailbone and shoulder blade areas Provides a hard layer of protection if the outer gear fails (note some riders wear the back/chest protector over their jacket) Complete the gear set, blit and other cheaper brands are mostly a "one crash item." imho, most of the common cheaper gear brands will hold up to mostly do their job, but some areas may fail leaving you with a strawberry or light rash, where as no gear in that area is far worse. Then sometimes those items are equal to a Sherman tank. My old Frank Thomas suit was down 4 times before I bought it and it never failed me. Not bad for $125 if ya ask me.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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October 20th, 2016, 08:00 PM | #13 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
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Quote:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=243478 "Half of the injuries to the somatic regions were to the ankle-foot, lower leg, knee, and thigh-upper leg." Click on the dots to see proportion of all motorcycle casualties with injuries on specific areas of the body: http://roadsafety.mccofnsw.org.au/a/91.html
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October 20th, 2016, 08:29 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: john
Location: placerville
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i have a bilt jacket thats been down on the track twice , low sides at 50
it has held up better than i thought. complete the gear first. |
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October 20th, 2016, 10:15 PM | #15 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
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Complete the gear first. I crashed in a Bilt leather jacket, and it held up really well. No scratches, no holes, nothing, and I am not hurt at all except for a muscle spasm in the back of my shoulder from the impact. I've got a CE soft back protector in it, but that's not what I landed on.
I also had kevlar leggings, which held up well, though I did get a small scrape on my knee from the gear shifting, but no damage to the pants, and real leather motorcycle boots. Feet and legs came through perfectly. And yes, get the best gear you can afford. Leather seems to shift less in a crash than does textile, for what that's worth. Husband was on a ride with a guy who slid in a textile jacket and he got the same kind of scrape on his shoulder that I have on my knee, presumably from the gear shifting. |
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October 20th, 2016, 10:30 PM | #16 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Kerry, do whatever you need to do to keep the gear from shifting around too much. If gear will not "mostly" stay in place, it most likely doesn't fit properly. I see riders go down all the time, the ones that have the least amount of injury are the riders with gear that fits very well. imho, textile doesn't move around any more or less than leather. I have seen a rider slide 800+ft and his textile gear did it's job and was perfectly in place. Now... he had a broken back, but that was from hitting at wall at 70mph. :\
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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October 21st, 2016, 08:31 AM | #17 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
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I'll keep looking for what might work better, but this is what I have for now. It's good to know that textile gear can still hold up well in a crash. It seems to "grab" more than leather but I think it's sometimes more comfortable.
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October 23rd, 2016, 10:58 AM | #18 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Phil
Location: Pittsburgh
Join Date: May 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250R Posts: 60
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Thanks for the feedback all! What boots do you guys like?
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October 23rd, 2016, 05:52 PM | #19 |
The Asian Caucasian
Name: Abu Mishary Mohd Fairus
Location: Malaysia
Join Date: Jan 2016 Motorcycle(s): Kawasaki Ninja 250 SE 2015 (sold); Honda ADV160 (current) Posts: 796
MOTM - Jan '17
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Type or brand?
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Losing someone is not painful. They are a part of us all this while and will always be with us. But missing them is. |
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October 23rd, 2016, 06:01 PM | #20 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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A great starter street/track boot are the A* s-mx boots.
Blunt honesty: There are better boots. There are far worse boots. There are plenty of riders who have been down at high speeds where this boot has served them well. There are riders who went down at slow speeds where their ankle still twisted up. My opinion: This boot is great slide protection and 80/20 overall protection. If you feel your ankle may be "crushed" or "twisted up" during a down, then look at something with more ankle restraint. What I personally wear. Pros: 95% adequate protection. extra slide and heel protection Cons: Sucks to walk in of a long period of time, lack of ankle crush/twist protection Price difference between those two boots, about $100 dollars.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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October 23rd, 2016, 07:41 PM | #21 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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I have A*s and SIDIs. The A* are a race boot, and have a different arch shape that takes some getting used to when shifting. The SIDIs are slightly less protective/rigid, but easier to get on and off and walk in. I got both sets used on CL for cheap.
If I were buying new, I would probably go with SIDI. |
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October 24th, 2016, 05:46 AM | #22 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Phil
Location: Pittsburgh
Join Date: May 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250R Posts: 60
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I was looking at the Alpine Stars SMX you linked above, and also the A* Roam Boots: http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/a...am-2-air-boots I assume the tradeoff is the Roam's (and other more casual looking boots) offer less protection in exchange for comfort?
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October 24th, 2016, 06:44 AM | #23 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
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Pretty much, yeah.
You'll find that touring-type boots are basically just shin-high leather boots that zip up, with smooth soles and something to protect the toe of the boot from shifter wear. Most if not all also have a stiff panel over the shin, to protect against stones and such. These boots will offer ankle support similar to ordinary work boots, i.e. they will allow your ankle to flex, which means you can walk around in them without a lot of discomfort. There are a few reasons to get boots like these instead of heading down to Walmart and just buying a pair of work boots:
Many race boots have more support, often through a plastic exoskeleton. They're a bit like a cross between a leather boot and a downhill ski boot. They offer little or no lateral flex, making them a literal pain to walk in. The reasons to go for a race boot instead of a touring boot:
FYI my everyday commuting boots are Bilt perforated Trackstars, which are no longer offered. Serviceable, and despite the name are really a touring-type boot. Once broken in, they're comfortable enough to wear all day. Track boots are Sidi ST Airs, bought used.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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November 8th, 2016, 09:42 AM | #24 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Andrew
Location: Durham
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250 Posts: 22
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I've got full gear in a hodge podge of brands as it suited my budget. I did stay with DOT/CE rated stuff so it isn't totally random junk but it's certainly not top of the line. I will replace things as needed with upgraded gear but I wasn't able to spend thousands on my first go-round of gear.
So I'm rocking: - Bell Helmet ($110) - Joe Rocket jackets ($150 each) (mesh for summer, textile for winter, with Forcefield back protector ($50)) - Joe rocket shorty gloves and winter gloves and Sedici leather gauntlet gloves ($50 each) - AGV kevlar jeans with knee pads ($130) - TCX boots/shoes ($120) Even with just that I'm at about $860. I don't think that the CycleGear brand stuff is that bad but it's certainly not top quality. I would much rather be wearing a full set of Bilt brand gear that shorts and a t-shirt, that's for sure. Take in all these opinions and make the best decision that you can. |
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November 8th, 2016, 10:23 AM | #25 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
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Yes, Cycle Gear's house brand is entry-level, but it's certainly better than nothing, and good gear costs money. So upgrade when you can.
My stuff's different brands, too. Bilt jacket, Sedici jacket, Cycle Gear kevlar jeans, GoGoGear kevlar leggings, Dainese boots, Shoei helmet, and I think my gloves are Bilt brand. I'm not sure there's anything beyond aesthetics to be had from making it all match. |
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