Transmission noises when shifting (clunking sound)

[kawasaki]

took out my ninaj 250 finally with some good weather and i noticed a little clunking sound when going into first gear its like a small click when i put into first gear my clutch is all the way in and no gas is being applied and also happens when i upshift into any of the other gears any ideas??

also when i am sitting at a red light i smell like there is something burning like a oil/gas smell so i dont know if i am burning oil or not the bike rides perfectly fine in all of the rpm range. maybe i might need a tune up like spark plugs etc?

thanks

[Flying]

The transmission is noisy, it will click, klunk, and whine and you'll get used to it.

As for the gas/oil smell, the bike might be richly tuned or you got stuff on your exhaust pipe.

[Z1R rider]

You could have a small oil leak in the front of the valve cover, dripping onto the exhaust pipes.

[jkv45]

Clutch cable needs adjusting? - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Clutch_%26_Transmission

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by kawasaki

........i noticed a little clunking sound when going into first gear its like a small click when i put into first gear.........

Another possible cause: excessive play here:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_shim_the_cush_drive

[Triple Jim]

I used to worry about little stuff when I was young.

[Mohawk]

Just to be on the safe side, dip your oil & check the consistency, these bikes are known to have leaky petcocks from time to time that can leak fuel throught the carbs & into the engine crankcase ! The clutches are very noisy especially once worn, with a load knocking noise at idle. Most bikes clunk to some degree when selecting 1st gear, if your changes are timed correctly they do not clunk aftert that other than the odd 1st-2nd change which passes through neutral & is a longer throw than the rest.

YMMV have fun

[kawasaki]

alright thanks i will check out what the problem is hopefully nothing to big

[jkv45]

Changed the oil lately?

[kawasaki]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Changed the oil lately?

yes i did a oil change before the season started oh and that reminds me when the bike is on a straight what should the oil level be ? should it be half full or no oil in the sight glass??

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by kawasaki

yes i did a oil change before the season started oh and that reminds me when the bike is on a straight what should the oil level be ? should it be half full or no oil in the sight glass??

Here's some info on that - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_I_check_my_oil%3F

What oil did you use?

[kawasaki]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Here's some info on that - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_I_check_my_oil%3F

What oil did you use?

5w-40

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by kawasaki

5w-40

Rotella T6 - right?

If so, you are good in that department.

[dcj13]

A little clunk going into first gear?

Within the limits of normal.

[kawasaki]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Rotella T6 - right?

If so, you are good in that department.

no not t6 it was castrol edge 5w-40 is there a bigg difference between the 2 oils?

[Triple Jim]

Don't get too worried about exactly what oil you're using. I use Valvoline VR-1 20W-50 (not synthetic).

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by kawasaki

no not t6 it was castrol edge 5w-40 is there a bigg difference between the 2 oils?

Well...here's the issue...

Normal automotive oils have changed over the years. They used to be fine for cycle engines - but not any more.

Because cycle engines have "solid" valvetrains (no rollers) they require certain additives to protect the high pressure contact points on the cams and rockers from galling before the oil gets to them on start-up. Those additives - Zinc and Phosphorus or ZDDP - have been significantly reduced in current auto oils in order to extend the life of emissions catalysts. Auto engine designers adapted to that by incorporating roller valvetrains that don't experience the same type of pressures that traditional "solid" valvetrains do, and don't need high levels of ZDDP.

Standard auto oils just do not have adequate levels of ZDDP to protect cycle cams and rockers. The easiest solution is to use a diesel oil like Rotella or Delvac. Diesel oils are not required to adhere to the same restrictions as automotive oils, and have much higher levels of ZDDP - which is what you need.

One common misconception about auto oils is that they contain "Friction Modifiers" (Moly) that may make a wet clutch slip. That's only true for oils in the 30-grade (5W-30, 10W-30, etc) and under range, and no 40-grade oils have them. BUT that doesn't make standard auto 40-grade oils safe for use in cycle engines.

Just use a diesel oil like Rotella and you have everything you need - plus they are very reasonably priced, especially in gallons.

[Triple Jim]

Valvoline VR1 appears to have slightly more ZDDP than Rotalla T6. Rotella T6 appears to be a group III non-synthetic that passes as a synthetic in the US. This is good oil, but not synthetic. Some test results I read indicate that VR1 has about 1.5 times the film strength of Rotella T6. It also showed that ZDDP content is not a good indication of film strength, protection of flat tappet lifters, etc..

I'm not crazy about multigrades like 5w-40 because the base stock is so thin, and the 40 comes from some hefty additives.

And as I said before, it's really not worth worrying too much about oil, other than to change it regularly and keep enough in the engine.

[kawasaki]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Well...here's the issue...

Normal automotive oils have changed over the years. They used to be fine for cycle engines - but not any more.

Because cycle engines have "solid" valvetrains (no rollers) they require certain additives to protect the high pressure contact points on the cams and rockers from galling before the oil gets to them on start-up. Those additives - Zinc and Phosphorus or ZDDP - have been significantly reduced in current auto oils in order to extend the life of emissions catalysts. Auto engine designers adapted to that by incorporating roller valvetrains that don't experience the same type of pressures that traditional "solid" valvetrains do, and don't need high levels of ZDDP.

Standard auto oils just do not have adequate levels of ZDDP to protect cycle cams and rockers. The easiest solution is to use a diesel oil like Rotella or Delvac. Diesel oils are not required to adhere to the same restrictions as automotive oils, and have much higher levels of ZDDP - which is what you need.

One common misconception about auto oils is that they contain "Friction Modifiers" (Moly) that may make a wet clutch slip. That's only true for oils in the 30-grade (5W-30, 10W-30, etc) and under range, and no 40-grade oils have them. BUT that doesn't make standard auto 40-grade oils safe for use in cycle engines.

Just use a diesel oil like Rotella and you have everything you need - plus they are very reasonably priced, especially in gallons.

ok so i should do the oil change as soon as possible and get rid of all the old oil and replace it with the rotella T6 5w-40 also will i need to replace the oil filter?
or could i just use the same filter? the filter only has like 120 km or so same on the oil

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by kawasaki

ok so i should do the oil change as soon as possible and get rid of all the old oil and replace it with the rotella T6 5w-40 also will i need to replace the oil filter?
or could i just use the same filter? the filter only has like 120 km or so same on the oil

That's up to you. In the short term I don't believe it's going to cause any problems, but overall a diesel oil is a much better choice.

I wouldn't ditch the filter if you decided to change. You could loosen the cover and drain the oil without removing the filter.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Valvoline VR1 appears to have slightly more ZDDP than Rotalla T6. Rotella T6 appears to be a group III non-synthetic that passes as a synthetic in the US. This is good oil, but not synthetic. Some test results I read indicate that VR1 has about 1.5 times the film strength of Rotella T6. It also showed that ZDDP content is not a good indication of film strength, protection of flat tappet lifters, etc..

I'm not crazy about multigrades like 5w-40 because the base stock is so thin, and the 40 comes from some hefty additives.

And as I said before, it's really not worth worrying too much about oil, other than to change it regularly and keep enough in the engine.

Couple things -

VR1 isn't a standard auto oil, so it has better levels and is safe to use in a cycle engine.

T6 is a Group III as you said. It's the lowest level "synthetic" and is not allowed to be called "synthetic" in Europe. That said, it's far superior to most conventional oils in the same range. "Synthetic" just means the molecular structure is closed, unlike conventional oil that has an open structure. A closed structure flows better and holds together better in extreme conditions.

You won't see a 5W-40 conventional oil. It requires to much Viscosity Improvers to reach that range, as a conventional oil starts at the low (W) range and uses viscosity improvers to get to the high range. When a conventional oil breaksdown it drops to the low (base) range - not good. Synthetic oils start at the high range, and don't use viscosity improvers to alter the viscosity. That's why a synthetic doesn't breakdown and lose viscosity with extreme heat like conventional oil does.

The issue I have with 20W-50 is that it's just too thick. It may have more film strength (heavier oils usually do) but it moves slower inside the engine and builds more oil pressure. Thicker oil also carries heat away slower. 20W-50 conventional oils were designed back-in-the-day to combat the breakdown of conventional oil from excessive heat, like in a Big Twin in traffic in the middle of summer. Water cooled engines don't need it, and it's no advantage.

T6 isn't The Best oil out there, but it's more than adequate and safe to use in a cycle engine. It's also reasonably inexpensive and easy to find.

[kawasaki]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Couple things -

VR1 isn't a standard auto oil, so it has better levels and is safe to use in a cycle engine.

T6 is a Group III as you said. It's the lowest level "synthetic" and is not allowed to be called "synthetic" in Europe. That said, it's far superior to most conventional oils in the same range. "Synthetic" just means the molecular structure is closed, unlike conventional oil that has an open structure. A closed structure flows better and holds together better in extreme conditions.

You won't see a 5W-40 conventional oil. It requires to much Viscosity Improvers to reach that range, as a conventional oil starts at the low (W) range and uses viscosity improvers to get to the high range. When a conventional oil breaksdown it drops to the low (base) range - not good. Synthetic oils start at the high range, and don't use viscosity improvers to alter the viscosity. That's why a synthetic doesn't breakdown and lose viscosity with extreme heat like conventional oil does.

The issue I have with 20W-50 is that it's just too thick. It may have more film strength (heavier oils usually do) but it moves slower inside the engine and builds more oil pressure. Thicker oil also carries heat away slower. 20W-50 conventional oils were designed back-in-the-day to combat the breakdown of conventional oil from excessive heat, like in a Big Twin in traffic in the middle of summer. Water cooled engines don't need it, and it's no advantage.

T6 isn't The Best oil out there, but it's more than adequate and safe to use in a cycle engine. It's also reasonably inexpensive and easy to find.

ok so if T6 isnt the best out there i would want only the best for my bike money inst the problem but i do want the best brand and oil so what would that be?

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by kawasaki

ok so if T6 isnt the best out there i would want only the best for my bike money inst the problem but i do want the best brand and oil so what would that be?

Group V Ester-based motorcycle-specific synthetic like Motul 300V, Repsol, or Redline oils are going to be The Best.

For most riding conditions it's not necessary.

For you, Up Nort, Rotella T6 5W-40 is a good choice because it flows better in low temps.

[Triple Jim]

I'm not promoting VR1, but it's available in 10w-30, and the tests I read showed that version had better film strength than Rotella, and only very slightly lower than Redline Racing Oil.

My point really is that any decent quality oil will be fine in a Ninja 250 I'd bet that Walmart brand oil would be just fine in our bikes. I've used it for years in a variety of flat tappet engines around here.

Also, it's looking like all the talk about ZDDP is more hype than reality, because an oil's film strength, and therefore probably its suitability for use with non-roller lifters, is not very closely related to ZDDP content.

Lots of guys use Rotella in these bikes, and have proven that it works well. Its price is reasonable.

For guys who may be concerned about oil brand, search for something like "motor oil film strength testing" and do some research. Just watch out for advertising that has the goal of getting you to spend big bucks.