July 23rd, 2017, 11:00 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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No Start
Hi all, first post here. Recently picked up a non-running 94 250 that has supposedly sat for 2 years.
I have gotten it to run a couple times (not with starter, but with bump starting and a push from a friend). It will not start just with the starter. When I was able to get it to run, it would die anywhere below 2000 rpm. Also the idle would hang quite often until I messed with the idle set screw (leaning out maybe?) Carbs were cleaned by the previous owner. And today I have not been able to get it started yet. Things I have done so far is new spark plugs (NGK CR8HSA), fresh oil, checked spark (although seemed weak. Resistance of the coils were both 3.1ohms). Also now it seems to be stuck in 1st gear. It feels like it goes into neutral (and can click back down into what would feel like 1st), but it is still stuck in gear. I know I am not in a higher gear because I haven't had it in 2nd gear as of yet. I've tried rocking the bike back and forth to get it into neutral but have not had any luck. Last futzed with by ///M; July 26th, 2017 at 11:39 AM. |
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July 23rd, 2017, 11:10 AM | #2 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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My first guess is that the idle circuits in your carbs are clogged from sitting, and the previous owner missed curing that when he cleaned them.
Could your transmission trouble be related to the feature of this transmission that helps you find neutral? When the bike is stopped, you can go from neutral to 1st and back to neutral, but not past neutral to 2nd until the engine is running and you're moving. You should be able to get it into neutral by moving the bike back and forth a little though. From 1st gear, lift the shift lever up all the way firmly, which would get you into 2nd on most bikes, and it should go into neutral. Welcome to the board, Jon! |
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July 23rd, 2017, 11:13 AM | #3 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
As far as the transmission goes - I am unsure. It feels like it normally would for shifting from 1st to neutral for vice versa - just it will stay in 1st. It doesn't feel like there's a lockout like if you try to go to 2nd. In days prior I haven't had issues with it. |
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July 23rd, 2017, 12:10 PM | #4 |
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See what the transmission does when you have the engine running after the carb clean.
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July 23rd, 2017, 01:17 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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July 23rd, 2017, 07:22 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): 94 Ninja 250 Posts: 36
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No luck tonight.
Cleaned the carbs (were very clean) and adjusted the floats - adjustment was a few mm off. Tried to start it and didn't seem to have fuel getting to the cylinders. Once the float bowls filled with fuel, I didn't see any gas more gas moving through the filter. I've checked for vacuum leaks (and am 95% sure all vacuum lines are connected). Did not see any cracks or obvious leaks when the carbs were out. |
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July 23rd, 2017, 11:05 PM | #7 |
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Name: J
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Is the chock on or off?
I've found. out if the chock is all the way on but when your taking it off it dies, due to the idle screw isn't set right. If you suck on the vacuum fuel line does fuel flow constant? Be sure 100% there is no vacuum leaks, I've worked on a carb scooter and it had a lot of issues if there was any air leaks. Valves ok too? |
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July 24th, 2017, 04:32 AM | #8 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
As far as valves go, I'm going to do an adjustment today or tomorrow. I didn't have a set of feeler gauges that were small enough, so I'll be picking up a new set. Maybe a compression check should also be next on the list? |
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July 24th, 2017, 06:15 AM | #9 |
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As far a the running issue, I would remove the air filter and give it a quick shot of starter fluid before cranking to see what it does. Make sure you are charging the battery between attempts. If it sputters to life you know almost certainly that you have a fuel-related issue. Did you check the inline filter inside the fuel line at the carb inlet for a blockage? You may need to have the carbs professionally cleaned and adjusted. There could be an issue with the carb diaphragms also. Pull the fuel line, apply vacuum to the petcock, and confirm flow.
For the transmission, I would make sure you have gotten it into 1st gear. Keep tapping down while rocking the bike forward and back. It would be odd if it were stuck in gear and wouldn't change. I'm thinking it may not be in 1st, and you are clicking up looking for neutral from a higher gear. |
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July 24th, 2017, 09:09 AM | #10 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
I've verified that it does have spark on both cylinders. |
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July 24th, 2017, 09:48 AM | #11 |
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time for a compression test
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July 24th, 2017, 10:03 AM | #12 | |
Rev Limiter
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Quote:
You may need to open the throttle while cranking to allow the Starter Fluid to get past the closed butterflies. Last futzed with by jkv45; July 24th, 2017 at 02:59 PM. Reason: typo |
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July 24th, 2017, 02:32 PM | #13 |
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July 24th, 2017, 04:22 PM | #14 |
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What colour is the spark that you saw when testing?
Was it yellow/red? Or white/blue? |
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July 24th, 2017, 04:25 PM | #15 |
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July 25th, 2017, 06:25 AM | #16 |
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I dunno. At this point I would plan to pull off the carbs and go through them.
If you have spark, the carbs are going to be the main focus. |
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July 25th, 2017, 06:31 AM | #17 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Also got the transmission back into neutral after playing with it for some time. |
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July 25th, 2017, 11:16 AM | #18 | |
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Quote:
Good to hear you got it into neutral. Hopefully there's not a significant problem that keeps it from doing it when needed. |
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July 25th, 2017, 11:34 AM | #19 |
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Name: Jon
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July 25th, 2017, 11:46 AM | #20 |
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July 25th, 2017, 11:52 AM | #21 |
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July 25th, 2017, 12:49 PM | #22 |
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What methods did you use to *clean the internal passageways and circuits?
And how did you confirm each circuit was, in fact, *clean? Did you also address the starter circuit? *IMHO a better term is actually *clear*
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July 25th, 2017, 06:43 PM | #23 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
I did a quick oil change and it was chocolate milk. Did a leak down test and found the headgasket was leaking. Pulled it apart, and it was leaking between the cylinders, as well as from one of the water ports. Already took it to the machining shop at my college, and the head is true and not warped. Same story with the cylinders. |
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July 29th, 2017, 12:59 PM | #24 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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Got it running today! Fired right up, runs fantastic now.
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July 29th, 2017, 01:37 PM | #25 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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That's great news! How is the transmission shifting?
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July 29th, 2017, 04:03 PM | #26 |
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
July 29th, 2017, 04:08 PM | #27 |
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Excellent.
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July 30th, 2017, 11:48 PM | #28 |
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July 31st, 2017, 06:22 AM | #29 | |
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Quote:
I only use a small amount of it if I need to confirm there's a fueling issue. I've had temperamental engines start right up with just a tiny shot, and not need it after that. Definitely don't ever spray it until it drips - just a light shot is all you should ever use. |
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July 31st, 2017, 08:17 AM | #30 | |
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Quote:
Right Dukemeister? Bill |
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July 31st, 2017, 08:47 AM | #31 |
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Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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All I did was take the plugs out and spray a quick shot into the cylinders. No worries about the carbs
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July 31st, 2017, 09:05 AM | #32 |
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August 10th, 2017, 06:57 PM | #33 |
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Hey guys, couple issues I've had over the past few weeks of riding (or well, 3 full days of riding as I've been on vacation as of late).
If I'm cruising through town (30mph) or really anywhere below 6-7k rpm (mind you I am just cruising, not accelerating or decelerating) it will begin "bucking" or seem like there may be a misfire (or something of the sorts). Also it idles fantastic when cold (and does not require any choke no matter the ambient air temperature). When hot it'll idle for roughly 5 seconds and drop RPM until it stalls. If I am on the throttle and accelerating through the midrange RPMs it does not have a single issue. It only arises when maintaining low speeds. Would this be an issues with the carbs? And if it is, would it be an adjustment or would it be dirty idle circuits? Another thought was a possible vacuum leak (going to replace all lines when I get home from my trip, along with fuel lines just for safe measure). The issues vanished completely after I opened it up getting on the interstate (WOT all the way to redline through 3rd gear) and then returned the next day (and has not gone away since then, no matter how hard or easily I run it). Gas is fresh (tried with 87 and 93). I'd also like to add that it starts a lot quicker when cold than hot. Cold it'll start with no choke after a couple seconds and idle at 1700rpm. Hot it will take a solid 5-7 seconds of cranking and slight bits of throttle added to get it to go (and then require throttle to keep it idling). Also would like to add that after 3 tanks of fuel it averaged 55 mpg all tanks of mostly 50mph-ish twisty roads. Would my float adjustment possibly have it too rich? Sorry for the long post. Mixture of thinking out loud and questions :P |
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August 10th, 2017, 07:21 PM | #34 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: J
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At first I thought carbs or vacuum leak until you said it's better cold than hot.
Heat expands while cold retracts so there must be something else. I'm not too familiar with bikes, I'm not sure how different they are from cars especially with carbs. |
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August 10th, 2017, 07:35 PM | #35 | |
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Quote:
I would check the pilot air screws. If you haven't already, pull the EPA plugs, unscrew the pilot screws and examine the "O" rings. If they have deteriorated replace them and adjust the screws out from their seat 2.5 turns. It's worth a check to be sure. This will entail carburetor removal if you haven't removed the EPA plugs previously. Bill |
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August 11th, 2017, 06:06 AM | #36 |
Rev Limiter
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Sounds carb related to me.
Cleaning, adjusting, syncing, and maybe a shim on the needle should make it run properly. Because it starts cold better than hot, I think it's getting too much gas. It should need some choke if it's stone cold, and it shouldn't idle that high wihtout any. A vacuum leak is a possibility. The "bucking" would be another indication that something isn't right in the carbs. Probably too rich, but look at the plugs for clues. Float height should be checked and idle mixture screws are best set in the range of 2.5 turns out for starters. When working with carbs, think in terms of throttle position (1/8, 1/4, 1/2, etc) instead of RPMs to get a better idea of which circuit needs adjustment. |
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August 11th, 2017, 06:11 AM | #37 | |
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Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
I added a couple shims to the needles with no change. I'm thinking I might have adjusted the floats too far? I did a pretty major adjustment (bike was running lean when I tested it previously, and there's a good possibility of me incorrectly measuring the 17mm float height). Also the idle mixture screws are 3 turns out, I'll try 2.5 turns out. I'll also pull the plugs (when I get home from vacation that is) and see if it's running overly rich, and likely replace them while I'm at it (plug chop might be some good info?) Bill - o-rings looked brand new when I pulled the carbs apart last. |
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August 11th, 2017, 11:56 AM | #38 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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If you take the plugs out, you can just put about 1/2 a teaspoon of gasoline in each cylinder and it will work at least as well as starting fluid, which my be half evaporated by the time you get the plugs back in.
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August 15th, 2017, 07:02 PM | #39 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: Vermont
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Hi all, lack of reply since I've been too busy riding.
Once I adjusted the floats down to run leaner, the bog is gone. Also after a recent plug change, it is currently at a near perfect A/F. |
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August 15th, 2017, 10:33 PM | #40 |
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That's the best reason for being away from the board! Glad you got her going and on the road.
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