October 7th, 2021, 04:52 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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Seized Engine at 1000 Miles
Hey guys, new rider here and an idiot who needs a lot of help.
Just bought a Kawasaki Ninja 400 2020 about a month ago, never ridden before and self taught. I bought the bike from one previous owner with 300 miles on it, no problems with the bike what so ever. I was taking it on a road trip to my dad who I haven't seen in 10 years, I was 700 miles on the trip and while riding on the highway and I could no longer accelerate on the throttle, it felt like gas wasn't being fed to the engine. I dropped out from 6th gear into 4th when the engine shut off on me and coasted down to neutral. There was no juttering, noises, or anything note worthy as it happened. Just the engine shutting off. I took it to a local bike shop in Omaha where the sales team there told me the engine was seized due to lack of oil, (which is my fault for not filling it but the bike just hit 1000 miles. I find it odd that the stock oil would run out that fast. And even if it did, any engine damage wouldn't be significant) I was wondering what kind of options I had, possibilities for failed parts in the engine, or if I am being lied to for money. I am lacking funds, and the options I know of are engine replacement(cheapest) or having them fix it (as much as the bike costs). This bike has been the only thing that has made me happy in the past few years, and as soon as I was starting to live again I got kicked in the balls due to my own failure. I really do not want to replace the bike. I don't normally reach out for help or do posts like this so I'm sorry if this is something to humor me but I would really appreciate an option that is viable. I can provide as many minute details as humanely possible if it helps one of you narrow it down. |
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October 7th, 2021, 05:33 AM | #2 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
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Hi Sam, welcome to the board!
Running so low on oil that the pump sucks air will certainly cause major engine damage. Do you know for sure that the oil level was really very low when you had the problem? This would have made the oil pressure warning indicator come on, probably flashing on and off for a while first. (or could the shop have drained some to convince you?) Is the engine really seized? This would mean that it won't turn if you try to start it or if you try to push start it. |
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October 7th, 2021, 08:10 AM | #3 |
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If that was original oil in bike, engine wasn't broken in yet and rings not fully sealing. So would burn oil at faster rate than normal. Sounds terminal, probably needs new engine.
Best deal is to buy one of those insurance bikes that's been totaled and transfer engine over. Couple of people in my race group bought those dirt cheap. Had trashed bodywork and all, but you'd replace then with track fairings for racing anyway. Keep eye on gauges! Overheating or any kind of red light means pull over immediately and figure out what's wrong. Fix it before continuing. Yeah check oil & chain before every ride. I oil chain every other tank, ~500 miles. Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; October 7th, 2021 at 08:23 PM. |
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October 7th, 2021, 06:47 PM | #4 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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Where could I find something like that and in what price range?
Also there was no warning signs before this, no flashing lights on the dash, no check engine light etc. I don't believe the oil was sabotaged in any way now, but there may have been an indicator problem. I have no idea how to prove that though. Also I asked the mechanic/sales guy handling my bike to just take a look at it and try and diagnose the bike, but he started to try and fix it without my permission, not sure if that has any grounds. |
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October 7th, 2021, 07:57 PM | #5 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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So you don't know if the engine is really seized? If you want to know what's really going on, it's going to take some effort to diagnose it yourself, or at least get a second opinion to confirm the shop's diagnosis.
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October 7th, 2021, 08:26 PM | #6 |
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what are chances petrol tank is empty?
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October 7th, 2021, 08:53 PM | #7 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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October 7th, 2021, 11:15 PM | #8 |
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Did you know the previous owner? Why did they sell it after essentially only one or two tanks of gas? Kawi's typically have 1-yr warranties - when was this sold new?
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October 8th, 2021, 01:21 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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His wife didn't want him driving a motorcycle anymore with their kid. And the warranty expired in may.
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October 8th, 2021, 01:29 AM | #10 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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It is seized, just wanting to know if factors like a new engine, speed I was going, or the amount of oil left in it that might point to which part of the engine that may of broke.
But it seems pretty hopeless, probably will just get a used engine replacement. I don't wanna get rolled by the mechanics and sales team though. |
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October 8th, 2021, 04:59 AM | #11 |
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a DIY or having shop do the replacement? You have possession of the bike or remains at shop?
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October 8th, 2021, 01:22 PM | #12 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
Swapping engines is easy. I've 250 swap in parking-lot of track in less than 2-hours to get teammate back to their next race. 400 maybe 3-4 hours max. Slightly more difficult because rear swingarm attaches to engine instead of frame. Finding replacement engine at decent price is most difficult part. You can pay full-price for engine $3k+ and be on your way today. Crashed totaled 400s can be had for $500-1000. Look on usual sites: FB, eBay, craigslist, OfferUP, etc. SearchTempest.com is good for looking at multiple Craigslist locations. Good idea to set up automated searches on all of them . Here's crashed & totaled auctions. All 400s look like they've got minimal damage, will probably go for $1000-1500. When one comes in that's been rolled off cliff with all bodywork ripped off and square wheels; it can be had for $500. https://erepairables.com/salvage-car...e/vid-49347019 Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; October 8th, 2021 at 07:52 PM. |
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October 8th, 2021, 01:28 PM | #13 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
Or did did you just hold clutch in and coasted to stop? Did you try to restart engine after that? What happened then? |
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October 8th, 2021, 07:15 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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At the shop 2 states away from me currently.
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October 8th, 2021, 07:18 PM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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I held the clutch in to spam shift down from 6th, got to 4th before the engine died, and i continued to shift while holding the clutch in to neutral. Got to a stop, flipped engine switch off and on, tried to start but just clicking. Attempted a push start after that for about 10 feet but nothing. Just sounded like a starter issue.
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October 8th, 2021, 07:20 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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What is the risk of getting an engine that's touched the ground? How stable are they to physical outside damage, how risky is this?
Also really appreciate the link and information! |
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October 11th, 2021, 07:04 AM | #17 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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You need to get the cycle back and confirm, absolutely, that the engine is seized. Did they prove to you that was the case?
Once you have it, let us know and someone here will walk you through some checks to confirm what you are dealing with before jumping into anything. It is odd that at 1000 mi it would have run dry, and you wouldn't have gotten any indication or warning light. There may be a better explanation. |
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October 11th, 2021, 04:54 PM | #18 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Quote:
Clicking starter-solenoid is also sign of dead-battery. Weak battery would at least give you low-spinning engine, wrr-wrr-wrr-wrr.. Another test is to put it in 1st-gear and bump-start it. That is, turn key ON, kill-switch ON, hold clutch in, push up to as fast as you can, hop on and release clutch. Your weight slamming down on bike will give tyre traction and releasing clutch will cause back-tyre to spin engine (instead of starter). 1. IF... your back-tyre locks up and drags, then yes, it may be seized engine. I don't trust this shop, symptoms you're describing is NOT signs of seized engine. It would've given you flashing red lights about coolant overheating and low oil-pressure for at least 5-minutes before actually seizing. Anecdote story, back in '86 when Honda's new VFR750F came out, it set numerous world-records. Afterwards, Honda didn't want those bikes falling into competitors hands, so they had engines destroyed. This was done by draining all oil from engines and running them WOT on dyno until they siezed. It took over 2-hours of running without oil for them to seize! Another related story, I crashed my '86 VF500F early-on and cracked clutch-cover. All oil spilled out of quarter-sized hole. Being stupid teenager, I didn't know what oil-light meant and I just ignored it after starting up bike again. Drove it 30-minutes back to my parents' house with no oil. My dad scolded me and said I probably toasted my engine and he'd help be take it apart to repair. Once we got cases separated, measured main & rod-bearings and found they were all within spec with no wear!!! Crank and rod-journals were pristine and shiny! That was 35-yrs ago and that same engine is running fine in my bike today! Bottom-end anyway... So... I suspect your engine's not seized. Just some basic electrical troubleshooting needed. Do you have AAA or towing-service with your insurance? Get your bike away from that shop immediately! |
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October 11th, 2021, 05:03 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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You're welcome! Unless bike was hit by car, it's extremely unlikely that engine is damaged. Most are single-vehicle crashes from rider mistake with just sliding on pavement. Lots of bodywork and frame surrounding engine that needs to be ground down and ripped off before engine is touched. Cost of replacing factory-bodywork is enough for insurance co. to total bike. So it's possible to pick up 100% fully-functional bike for next to nothing... if you don't mind it looking like apocalypse survivor!
Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; October 11th, 2021 at 08:57 PM. |
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October 13th, 2021, 09:32 AM | #20 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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I tried jump starting it by myself on the side of the highway a little bit but knew I couldn't do it alone. The rear tire was 100% not locked up or dragging, I don't see how it would be a dead battery since the dash seemed fine. I found out there was an oil light on, but no overheating signs or check engine/oil pressure for sure. I remember the whole time I was riding I would check the over heating indicator just as a habit and it never went about a third of the input.
The shop tried selling me a bike, then asking to buy the bike, and I am talking with them now to get an engine replacement from an insurance bike. I got matched with a sales guy who didn't know what he was talking about and got nervous when he was telling me that the engine was seized. He wouldn't tell me it was seized right away when he knew either because he didn't want to break the news, didn't know, or was lying to my face. I asked if I could go back and take a look and he said it was a safety hazard, when Tires Plus in my town lets me take a look under my car for oil changes. How do I know if they might mess it up more man. |
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October 13th, 2021, 11:35 AM | #21 | ||
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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If you're saying the engine was spinning with the clutch lever released, then it was not seized.
Quote:
Quote:
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October 13th, 2021, 12:36 PM | #22 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
Simple test is to measure battery-voltage with bike off. Then measure battery-voltage while cranking. Those numbers will tell you everything you need to know. Get used to troubleshooting with numbers, will save you tonnes of time, money and frustration in future. Shades of grey, not black & white, all-or-nothing. Yeah, show up with truck and haul your bike away unannounced. They're trying to get your bike for nothing and sell it for profit after replacing battery. Maybe even visit local constable's station on way and tell them about this and have them ready to show up if you call for assistance. |
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October 13th, 2021, 09:21 PM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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Thanks guys for the information, input and guidance. I am going to get it towed back starting tomorrow. I will keep you all updated.
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October 29th, 2021, 11:00 AM | #24 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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What did you find out?
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November 5th, 2021, 06:09 AM | #25 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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Just got it back today, got a second opinion on the bike locally, it's seized.
Now to just find an engine replacement... le sigh |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
November 5th, 2021, 07:13 AM | #26 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Drew
Location: SoCal
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 SV650S 2005 EX250F Posts: 487
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I will say... swapping motors is a relatively easy task, especially on these Ninjas. My first motor swap was on a Ninja 250 and I was surprised to have it done and running in a matter of a couple of hours. Granted, you have to be mechanically inclined and I don't know if that describes you, but I would think some ninjette members could be found close by to you in Illinois willing to turn a wrench if you have a box of pizza and a couple beers sitting unguarded in the garage. This sounds like a good opportunity for the community to help out
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November 5th, 2021, 07:57 AM | #27 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
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And judging by eBay, you can get a low miles 400 engine for $1,500 delivered. I imagine it would be less than that if you found one locally on CL or FB. One thing about motorcycles is that it's usually not hard to find perfectly good engines.
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November 8th, 2021, 08:18 AM | #28 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
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Just curious - where in IL are you located?
I lived in the Arlington Heights area for 20 years, about 10 years ago. |
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November 8th, 2021, 08:33 AM | #29 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Ninja 400 slightly more difficult engine-swap since rear-suspension is attached to engine instead of frame. Simple enough to hang rear subframe from garage rafters to make it easy to remove suspension, then engine.
Budget at least entire weekend for swap if this is your 1st time. Take tonnes of photos & videos of each disassembly step so you can put it all together in reverse order. Be careful with all EFI injector & sensor connectors. Squeeze release clip on connector and verify it's no longer latched before pulling on connector, not wiring. Seen many cases where wires were yanked and this causes problem you won't notice until after you've got everything back together. |
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November 11th, 2021, 03:36 AM | #30 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Here's Ninja 400 engine in NJ
https://cnj.craigslist.org/mpo/d/por...397843422.html Can ship it via https://www.busfreighter.com/ for $100 if it weighs less than 100-lbs Some totaled bikes for $100 starting bid: https://erepairables.com/salvage-car.../ninja+400+abs https://erepairables.com/salvage-car...bs+krt+edition Count on about $500-600 shipping via https://uShip.com |
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November 11th, 2021, 04:26 AM | #31 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 400 Posts: 11
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