March 20th, 2009, 04:18 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Mike
Location: San Diego, CA
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Green 250, 12 Ninja 650 (also green, it's the fastest color!) Posts: 32
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California Considering EPA-Style Exhaust Regulation
Not sure if this is the right section for this, if not feel free to move it Alex.
I recently received an email from a Buell riding friend of mine informing me of this bill (SB 435) before the California Senate. If you are as outraged as I am that the state legislature, which can't even pass a budget until six months after its deadline, is wasting its time with more useless laws that accomplish nothing but further burdening the residents of this state, then take action now. Write your legislator and senator and tell them to quit wasting their time on this. Writing a real letter is better than email because they often don't even read the emails they get from their constituents. The message I got from my friend is below. ----- California Senate Bill 435 is now being considered in the California Legislature. If it passes, not only will you have to have your bike smogged every two years, but forget about having any aftermarket pipe or performance mods on your bike. And the current bill as written is retroactive back to motorcycles built after year 2000 (I think). If you want to raise your voice to prevent this, follow the link below to send a letter to your congressman. It’s easy to do it as an email, but more effective to do it as a letter. Please do it, and please forward to all your motorcycle enthusiast friends. Click on this URL to take action now http://capwiz.com/amacycle/utr/2/?a=...&i=84755754&c= If your email program does not recognize the URL as a link, copy the entire URL and paste it into your Web browser. The URL will generate most of the message below. I wrote and inserted paragraph 3 below, but the online system lets you insert any text you want into paragraph 3. Dear [recipient name was inserted here], Senate Bill 435 would mandate testing for all motorcycles model year 2000 and newer. This despite the lack of any evidence that motorcycles are a significant source of emissions statewide. The only two counties to ever smog test motorcycles nationwide, Pima and Maricopa in Arizona, have already shown that motorcycle testing leads to no significant reduction in measured emissions levels. Pima County has already dropped their testing program and Maricopa is awaiting EPA's approval to do the same. For no significant benefit, motorcyclists would be burdened with the cumbersome process of getting the inspections, and they would need to likely pay higher rates than automobiles to get it done. The testing facilities are not equipped to do this testing, and since there are not as many motorcycles on the road, not many would open up because it wouldn't be as profitable as it is for cars. Motorcycles are supposed to be economical transportation, and imposing more fees and requirements on them will make less people ride them and climb back into their cars, thus congesting the highways even more. Other important points to consider are: Motorcycles, because of their relatively low yearly mileage totals when compared to other classes of vehicles, already have the lowest emissions of any motor vehicle category in California. This bill has no specific information regarding the test method to be used, emissions levels to be enforced or the test's potential costs to either the state or the individual owners. The deadline proposed for creating a testing procedure is slated for July 1, 2011 in the bill, and this is simply too close to the proposed test implementation date of January 1, 2012. California's motorcycle engine emission standards are already the strictest in the nation, and were just reduced again for model year 2008 and newer motorcycles If a smog check program is implemented, motorcycles constructed prior to the implementation date should be exempted from the testing. |
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March 20th, 2009, 04:39 PM | #2 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
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"We" the industry have been following and working on this closely with the MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council), of which I am on the aftermarket technical committee. This has been brought up, and shot down many, many times over the years as absolutely ridiculous from a logistical standpoint. And with continued diligence, it will be shot down again and again.
In essence, the strongest points are: Motorcycles as a whole, make up a minute number of vehicles on the road and/or contribution to overall emissions output. Both based on oveall efficency and miles driven. It would create a near impossible inspection station process on the visual aspect (exhaust system aside) of EVAP equipment. Many/most of which would require body work, gas tank, seats, hoses, etc, to be removed. As well as a complete working knowledge of every single component and location, on every single year and model affected. It's staggering logistically for the actual overall "benefit"... |
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March 20th, 2009, 04:50 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Mike
Location: San Diego, CA
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Green 250, 12 Ninja 650 (also green, it's the fastest color!) Posts: 32
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Thanks for the info Kerry. I guess the title of the thread may sound a little alarmist, but the idiots in Sacramento never stop amazing me with their stupidity. I looked up the bill on the state senate web site and it looks like its in committee, hopefully it will stay there and die. Since you follow this, maybe you can let us know if/when there is anything we should do?
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March 20th, 2009, 05:06 PM | #4 |
ninjette.org guru
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I live in California.
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March 20th, 2009, 07:15 PM | #5 | |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
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March 21st, 2009, 08:54 AM | #6 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Adam
Location: Sacramento area
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 - blue Posts: 177
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Someone needs to arrange for every one of our ridiculous, uncooperative, budget-destroying legislators to go do a job they are qualified for; like Tent City Sanitation Crew. They are used to shovelling the poop.
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March 21st, 2009, 09:11 AM | #7 |
\m/
Name: Mesh
Location: Irvine, CA
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): CBR600F3 Smokin Joes Posts: 138
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So wait - I gotta get the ninja checked out lol? Yeah I remember reading this and I think its gonna suck if it passes - will send letter to my congress man.
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June 30th, 2010, 07:14 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Craig
Location: Silicon Valley, CA USA
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California Considering EPA-Style Exhaust Regulation
A California State Assembly committee has endorsed legislation that would to require motorcyclists in the Golden State to have an EPA-compliant exhaust system on their 2011 or newer motorcycles. Two days ago the Committee on Transportation approved Senate Bill 435 with an 8-4 vote, which would make it illegal to operate a 2011 or newer motorcycle with an exhaust system that doesn’t have an EPA label that certifies it as meeting noise limit standards. According to the bill, riders would incur a “fix it” ticket if caught without their EPA exhaust sticker if the bill came into law.
The American Motorcyclist Association opposes the bill on the grounds that it improperly address a legitimate issue. “Many EPA labels are very difficult to locate on motorcycles,” said AMA Western States Representative Nick Haris. “This proposed law could lead to a flurry of tickets for motorcyclists who have legal exhaust systems on their machines with EPA labels that can’t be easily seen. It’s unreasonable to expect a law enforcement officer to easily locate an EPA label, and it’s simply unfair to expect a motorcycle owner to partially dismantle an exhaust system alongside the road to prove the label exists. The AMA has been running an active anti-excessive loud exhaust campaign recently, in an effort to better community ties between riders and non-riders. With better means of regulation available to the State of California, the AMA hopes that together with the Californian legislature they can achieve the same goal, without unfairly burdening riders who are compliant with the law. “Requiring that a motorcycle display a readily visible EPA label isn’t the correct way to address concerns about excessive motorcycle sound,” continued Haris. “The only objective way to determine whether a motorcycle complies with sound laws is for properly trained personnel to conduct sound level tests using calibrated meters and an agreed-upon testing procedure.” The AMA has drafted model legislation that adequately deals with and defines excessive motorcycle exhaust noise, using SAE standards, and encourages California and other states to consider it. In the mean time, the AMA is asking its members in California to encourage their representatives to vote against SB 435 when it comes to vote. Source: AMA
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June 30th, 2010, 07:17 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org dude
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Yeah, it sounded like this was dead awhile back, but it somehow seems to have resurfaced. Here's a thread on it in its last incarnation --> link
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June 30th, 2010, 07:40 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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God... I cringe/hate it when I read another newbie post looking for the loudest exhaust available for the 250 cause "loud pipes saves lives."
If only they knew the damage they are doing to a sport they just recently became involved in. Even other motorcyclists (AMA) know that loud pipes lead to higher restrictions/laws/biases/stereotyping against motorcyclists. Everyone wants to play "racer dude" on the street... how about going to real track to play racer dude, instead? Back in the 60s/70s, all offroad dirtbikes came with no muffler or if they did, it was a token one from the manufacturer. We all rode our 2 stroke racing bikes in the back woods and fields around the town in which I grew up. Guess what, that was happening all over the nation as more and more people took up off road riding/racing. Between the dust and obnoxiously loud two stroke expansion chambers, key people locally, and on a national level, worked to shut down riding areas. Police actually gave chase off road and the military was called in to track bikes by helicopter if you were on federal training grounds, riding. Today, it is totally unacceptable to ride anywhere except designated motorcycle recreational parks. It's unheard of (no pun intended) for bikes not to have mufflers. What I'm getting at is this has all taken place before... people with legislative power fighting to change laws to shut the few that make the most noise with their bikes, back under control. The big losers, of course, will be all motorcyclists. Once Khalifonia falls, they other states will follow suit. |
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June 30th, 2010, 08:44 PM | #11 |
Frak It
Name: Sean
Location: SWFL
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 199
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Brap! BNRrRAaarp! Braarakp! |
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July 1st, 2010, 06:36 AM | #12 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Alex
Location: Belfast, ME
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Kelly, Maine is going in that direction as well. In 2011, a noise test will be done as part of the annual motorcycle inspection. There are ways around that. People will slip on the stock exhaust for the inpection--get the sticker, and then go home and put the loud pipes back on. They are now debating what the decibel level should be, and how this can be enforced. It would appear that every law enforcement officer will have to be issued a decibel meter, along with every MC Inspection Station. This will cost a lot of money; So we can expect a price hike in inspections and registrations. The "Domino Effect" goes on and on. The noise ordinance also conveniently leaves out loud cars and pickups (Lots of them running straight pipes here) The only LOUD, in my view, that saves lives, is a loud colored helmet (mine is school bus yellow) and loud colored jackets. Clashing colors are best. The yellow helmet on a green bike is garish, to say the least.
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July 1st, 2010, 06:50 AM | #13 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Nate
Location: west virginia
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I'll admit my pipe is loud (about the same as a stock on a 600rr or gsxr), but I respect people around me and in neighborhoods (espc at night). I was always really worried about my bike being way to loud until I see harleys pass me. That type of sound is just retarded and there is no call for that loud of a bike (My bike is no where near that loud). But when I go through my neighborhood im always in the highest gear / lowest rpm to hold down the sound. At night I always ride as quiet as possible no matter where I am.
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July 1st, 2010, 07:11 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: W
Location: Austin, TX
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I just want my stock muffler to be quieter.
Besides, what's stopping exhaust manufacturers from putting on a fake EPA label? How does the law catch people doing modifications on their stock exhaust?
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2010 Kawasaki Ninja 250R - "Aria" (sold) 2012 Aprilia Tuono V4R - "Perrine" Proof that Harleys and Ninjettes are friendly with each other |
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July 1st, 2010, 07:23 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: KS
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): '09 EX250J, '01 CBR600F4i Posts: 53
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Yeah, there is a difference between a well made pipe and an ebay joint. I have a full yosh system and I thought it was loud until some harley guys passed me. Harleys are legal and nobody seems to complain about them, so I doubt anyone has a problem with my little 250.
A pipe from ebay or a D&D (cheaper) pipe would be much louder than mine. When I got my f4i the PO had some shorty GP style ebay exhaust on it (pretty much just a tip) so it was essentially running open headers. I shortly after that put the stocker back on because it was too loud, and I haven't heard any bikes (besides harleys) around here that were as loud as mine when I first got it. Maybe the problem is worse in CA or elsewhere? Either that or people complain more there! |
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July 1st, 2010, 08:48 AM | #16 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Andrew
Location: Fairfax, VA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '06 Yellow 250r Posts: 211
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While it's kinda silly for every officer to be issued a dB meter and be doing field tests on every Harley, (although I bet it could be built into the squad car for use when both vehicles are stationary) I totally support reasonable noise regulations for all vehicles, regardless of the number of wheels.
I also disagree that loud pipes save lives, but I kinda wish my bike was a little louder. At high speeds and high revs, I have trouble hearing the engine over the wind, especially through earplugs. What little sound gets through is 'felt' more than heard, and I seem to glance at the tach more often. |
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July 1st, 2010, 10:40 AM | #17 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bob
Location: CA
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Maybe I don't understand the issue fully, but wouldn't that just be another redundant law? I thought it was technically already illegal, but rarely enforced. Someone in the know, please educate me. I have actually been curious about this issue.
BTW: Kudos to the AMA. |
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July 1st, 2010, 03:29 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Cindy
Location: Wethersfield, CT
Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250R Posts: 691
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I am unfortunately one of those that think that loud pipes save lives... so feel free to educate me otherwise.
I don't know how many of you have experienced California traffic on the freeway. It's literally bumper to bumper maybe going 5-15mph. Bikes in CA are allowed to lane split (technically called lane sharing). I check my mirrors regularly and you would not believe how frequently I get surprised by a bike with stock exhaust zips by at 25/30 mph between lanes because I had no idea they were coming. On the other hand every rider that has modified exhaust or is a Harley, I hear in the distance which gives me an opportunity to shift to one side of my lane to give the rider extra room. If they want to make a law that regulates noise levels for a motorcycle, they need to do something about the fart cans on the backs of riced out Hondas. It is much more common for me to be woken up in the middle of the night by one of those cars than a motorcycle. |
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July 1st, 2010, 03:33 PM | #19 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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I know nothing about lane splitting (not legal here), but are they supposed to be lane splitting doing 25/30 over to begin with?
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July 1st, 2010, 03:43 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Craig
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The difference is that under current law you can use any muffler as long as it is under the states decibel limits. The only way to really enforce it is with db meters. The new law would require that motorcycles have mufflers with DOT certification stickers. Quiet or not a muffler would be illegal without the proper sticker.
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July 1st, 2010, 04:03 PM | #21 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Cindy
Location: Wethersfield, CT
Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250R Posts: 691
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Quote:
I usually see riders going by about 10mph over what traffic is going (...I wasn't quite clear in my post), but then again I see some that zip by faster. |
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July 1st, 2010, 05:41 PM | #22 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bob
Location: CA
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July 1st, 2010, 05:44 PM | #23 |
FORMER MOTORCYCLE RIDER
Name: Steve
Location: On a Trek SU200 or in my CRX
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I ♥ my EPA Exhaust.
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July 2nd, 2010, 04:58 PM | #24 | ||
IC2(SW)
Name: Kerry
Location: Pensacola
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.
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July 2nd, 2010, 05:40 PM | #25 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Alex
Location: Belfast, ME
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Doc, The problem is that our Ninja has two catalytic converters. By law, you are not allowed to remove a catalytic converter on any vehicle. That is an emissions issue. The noise issue is something altogether different and is regulated by the states. In Maine the acceptable level will be 62db at 50 Feet at quarter throttle. I don't have a problem with that. The Ninja is a bit "buzzy" sounding, but for a 250, it sounds ferocious. Compare it to other 250cc bikes. I like the stock muffler. It does get somewhat louder with time as the packing wears. I have a Ninja 250 go by my house every day on his way to work and back---going about 40mph. It sounds pretty nice to me. I would like to think that the Kawa engineers put a lot of thought into the 250---all of them. They would really not like to screw up their best selling bike.
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July 2nd, 2010, 06:29 PM | #26 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Ken
Location: Indio, CA
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The only thing that needs to be audibly loud on a motorcycle is the horn. It's there specifically as a safety device. However, almost all OEM horns on motorcycles sound comical when used in an empty room and are useless in traffic, and that really annoys me. When I'm in traffic and I push the horn button, the vehicles around me should be able to hear it clearly, and the only reason I can hear it at all is because I know I'm pushing the button.
I know that it's fairly easy to upgrade the horn, and that is on my "to do" list for all of our bikes. It still bothers me that the typical OEM horn equipment is only up to minimum standard as a legality, rather than something loud enough to have a useful effect as a safety device. Every time I hear "campaigning" from the loud-pipes-save-lives folks, that it's their right to annoy people, I don't know what to do. Don't they realize that the people that they're annoying are voters, and that there's a lot more of them than us?!? That's the kind of situation that can get nasty laws passed to control situations where common sense used to do just fine. What's really comical is when I hear the loud-pipes, and the helmets-are-dangerous, "safety" arguments coming from the same person, almost in the same breath. OK, I'm done now.
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July 2nd, 2010, 06:32 PM | #27 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Josh
Location: Richmond VA
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Isn't there an EPA or somesuch compliance spiel stamped into our cans? Just don't put on a fugly aftermarket exhaust and you'll be fine...
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July 2nd, 2010, 06:33 PM | #28 | |
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July 2nd, 2010, 06:54 PM | #29 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Josh
Location: Richmond VA
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Triumph Bonneville Black Posts: 627
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Depends. Some states don't have inspections and/or emmissions. But yes, technically it is illegal in some states.
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July 2nd, 2010, 07:10 PM | #30 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bob
Location: CA
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Quote:
I just checked the stamp on my pipe (ugly thing they do there), and confirmed it is referring to db. I had misunderstood, and thought I remembered it referring to emissions. |
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July 3rd, 2010, 04:59 PM | #31 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Alex
Location: Belfast, ME
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I spoke to a friend who owns a shop specializing in mufflers. Here is his take on the matter. This, he says, applies in the majority of our states. As a shop, he is NOT allowed to remove a catalytic converter or he will lose his business license. If you come to the shop, and for some reason, your catalytic converter is gone, he may install a muffler without the converter. (Catalytic converters get stolen and are sold to scrap yards for the Platinum in them) They are also very expensive. Of course, YOU, can do almost anything. Were I to change my exhaust, I would change the whole thing--headers and all, and would keep the entire stock system in storage in case things got dicey with the authorities later. You can then always retrofit. Personally, I like things quiet. It is ironic that The United Bikers of Maine--whose motto is, "Let those who ride decide" are now actively endorsing "Pipe discipline" It is inevitable that the government, state and federal, will come down on the noise issue. It has really gotten out of hand. I doubt whether we will be able to turn this around. There are too many laws already in committees and in the works. The great philosopher Pogo said, "We have found the enemy--and it is us"
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July 3rd, 2010, 05:02 PM | #32 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bob
Location: CA
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That clears things up... thanks.
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July 5th, 2010, 12:36 PM | #33 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Christopher
Location: Texas State University
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): Trek Alpha 1.2 Posts: 56
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My mustang is pretty damn loud... I drown out most motorcycle noise...
but then again last time i got pulled over for loud pipes on my car... it was because the officer was a mustang owner and wanted to check out my car... he was impressed with the nitrous system that was hooked up at the time |
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July 5th, 2010, 04:25 PM | #34 |
dirty old man
Name: Chris
Location: Hazel Green, AL
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While we are on the subject of motor vehicles and noise, lets get the powers that be to do something about the racket that comes from vehicles disguised as someones music. When I am sitting at a stoplight and someone 2 lanes over has a stereo that is causing my teeth to vibrate, there is something wrong with that.
nb
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July 5th, 2010, 04:48 PM | #35 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bob
Location: CA
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July 5th, 2010, 04:52 PM | #36 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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July 5th, 2010, 05:00 PM | #37 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bob
Location: CA
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250r, '14 CBR500r Posts: A lot.
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July 5th, 2010, 05:07 PM | #38 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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The boom box law was written to address the car stereos with absurd subwoofer volumes as they traveled down the road, disturbing residents.
Interesting... I don't know if it applies to "noisemakers" on the beach. sorry for the hijack. |
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July 5th, 2010, 05:24 PM | #39 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bob
Location: CA
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Yeah, I knew you where probably actually talking about cars.... I expanded on the thought a bit, so it was I that am responsible for the origional 7500.
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September 30th, 2010, 10:04 AM | #40 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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New California Law Will Require EPA Sound Emissions Labels On Motorcycle Exhaust
From a press release issued by American Motorcyclist Association:
Quote:
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CraigHarris.org Pacific Track Time CraigsWeb See you at 2014 MotoGP Laguna Seca! We'll be camping on Fox Hill. AFM #278 |
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