Help! Need a solution while on a road trip

ninjabadger · August 6th, 2010, 07:51 PM

So I'm in the middle of a two week series of road trips and have encountered a somewhat serious problem. I rode from East Lansing, MI to Peoria, IL today and along the way my bike periodically would crap out while I was cruising on the interstate. It seemed like an electrical problem so I'm guessing it's an overheating CDI. It would happen after I had gone 60-100 miles since my last stop. The trick is that I need to do the reverse trip on Sunday. I had to stop three times on the shoulder of the interstate and I'm worried about getting creamed should I lose power at a bad time. I tried riding slower, down to 65-70 and I'm not sure if it helped. Any suggestions? I would really like to have a workable solution by Sunday, otherwise I'm going to have to stop every 60-80 miles to let the thing cool down, and that's going to make an already 6 hour ride ridiculously long. Help!

CZroe · August 6th, 2010, 08:07 PM

If it's anything like my problems, try opening the gas tank right away next time it happens and see if it will start right up again.

Mine only seems to do it when warm, but usually after a partial cool-down then hard run.

It only happened once when I crossed the country, but that was December. It has happened in the rain so I hesitate to say that it's CDI heat related.

bob706 · August 6th, 2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZroe

If it's anything like my problems, try opening the gas tank right away next time it happens and see if it will start right up again.

+1

Also you may want to check the tank vent line. Mine was partially blocked by some paint flakes.

Soujyu · August 6th, 2010, 08:46 PM

It's not your CDI overheating. It's usually because you got bad gas somewhere. On your return trip, go to a different gas station.

ninjabadger · August 6th, 2010, 08:56 PM

One of the reasons I think it's the CDI is that when it happens, the starter doesn't work unless I wait at least a few minutes.

CZroe · August 6th, 2010, 11:42 PM

The stater still turns, right? Turns but gets no fire? That's what mine does. I always have to wait a few minutes during which I get bored and check my fluids. The one time I didn't check my fuel was in the rain (didn't want it getting water in the tank) and that was the one time it took more than a few minutes. I had to push it to a gas station and it started after I put gas in it even though it wasn't bad gas and it wasn't empty.

ninjabadger · August 7th, 2010, 07:19 AM

No it doesn't turn. After I sit for a while then it will go.

mrlmd · August 7th, 2010, 07:28 AM

Make sure all your battery and ground connections are tight - sounds like an intermittent total electrical disconnect. Do you have lights or horn when the starter won't turn over?
Shouldn't the starter still turn over even if the CDI is bad?, that would just give you no spark, not no starter.

Alex · August 7th, 2010, 10:09 AM

Yep, if the starter doesn't turn at all, but then does a few minutes later, the loose battery connection sounds like a prime target.

ninjabadger · August 9th, 2010, 08:04 AM

Okay, I had some revelations on my ride back to MI yesterday. I think I've ruled out electrical. What I thought was an unresponsive starter previously was me being unable to hear the starter due to my earplugs and the highway noise.

I narrowed it down to fuel delivery based on the comments posted about cracking the fuel tank and an experiment I conducted. On my way back I ran at 80mph for about 80 miles before the bike died on me. I stopped on the side of the highway just long enough to lift my tank bag, vent the tank, button everything back up and get underway. I then maintained 80mph for another 70 miles when I arrived at my destination. I figured that if i had some kind of overheating power electronics it would crap out pretty quickly after the stop if I continued to run at high speed.

So what i figure is that the tank isn't able to vent properly and a vacuum is being created in the tank as the fuel drains. I have a hypothesis that it's either the tank cap itself not venting enough or the rubberized contact patch on my tank bag creating an effectively airtight seal at the gas tank cap. Thoughts? How many folks have had a similar fuel delivery issue? Has anyone who has modded their tank cap to reduce whistling had this problem?

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in. I still have one more long ride on Friday and I would like to have this sorted out by then or at least be on the way to a solution.

CZroe · August 9th, 2010, 10:23 AM

Well, so far, it sounds like you're getting it worse than anyone! It only happens to me a few times between major services... like 5-6 times total in the last 8K miles. I always have/use a tank bag but I kinda doubt it seals against it. My tanks still whistles (vents) and hasn't had the mod done.

At first, Sean suspected that his was the CDI in this thread as well. We had a good discussion about it going there.

I think it might have happened once when I crossed the country, in Alabama (started in GA). I thought it was bad gas or that I was out (still showed 1/8th a tank) and someone gave me a little when they saw me pushing. I've gotten my gauge down to "E" many times since, so I now doubt the "out of gas" hypothesis (that's where "bad gas?" assumption came from). After this started happening to me thousands of miles later, I re-evaluated. The only difference is that it wasn't my usual "run hard, slight cool down, run hard" combination that usualy triggers it. I had been on the road at top speed for 7/8ths of that tank of gas. Perhaps I built up a vacuum just the same by draining the tank faster than it could vent in those conditions.

August 6th, 2010, 07:51 PM	#1
ninjabadger ninjette.org member Name: Corey Location: Madison, WI Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R, 2008 Genuine Buddy 50 Posts: 121	Help! Need a solution while on a road trip So I'm in the middle of a two week series of road trips and have encountered a somewhat serious problem. I rode from East Lansing, MI to Peoria, IL today and along the way my bike periodically would crap out while I was cruising on the interstate. It seemed like an electrical problem so I'm guessing it's an overheating CDI. It would happen after I had gone 60-100 miles since my last stop. The trick is that I need to do the reverse trip on Sunday. I had to stop three times on the shoulder of the interstate and I'm worried about getting creamed should I lose power at a bad time. I tried riding slower, down to 65-70 and I'm not sure if it helped. Any suggestions? I would really like to have a workable solution by Sunday, otherwise I'm going to have to stop every 60-80 miles to let the thing cool down, and that's going to make an already 6 hour ride ridiculously long. Help!

August 6th, 2010, 08:46 PM	#4
Soujyu ninjette.org sage Name: W Location: Austin, TX Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250R (sold), 2012 Tuono V4R Posts: 512	It's not your CDI overheating. It's usually because you got bad gas somewhere. On your return trip, go to a different gas station. __________________________________________________ 2010 Kawasaki Ninja 250R - "Aria" (sold) 2012 Aprilia Tuono V4R - "Perrine" Proof that Harleys and Ninjettes are friendly with each other

August 7th, 2010, 10:09 AM	#9
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	Yep, if the starter doesn't turn at all, but then does a few minutes later, the loose battery connection sounds like a prime target. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

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August 6th, 2010, 08:07 PM	#2
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	If it's anything like my problems, try opening the gas tank right away next time it happens and see if it will start right up again. Mine only seems to do it when warm, but usually after a partial cool-down then hard run. It only happened once when I crossed the country, but that was December. It has happened in the rain so I hesitate to say that it's CDI heat related.

August 6th, 2010, 08:56 PM	#5
ninjabadger ninjette.org member Name: Corey Location: Madison, WI Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R, 2008 Genuine Buddy 50 Posts: 121	One of the reasons I think it's the CDI is that when it happens, the starter doesn't work unless I wait at least a few minutes.

August 6th, 2010, 11:42 PM	#6
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	The stater still turns, right? Turns but gets no fire? That's what mine does. I always have to wait a few minutes during which I get bored and check my fluids. The one time I didn't check my fuel was in the rain (didn't want it getting water in the tank) and that was the one time it took more than a few minutes. I had to push it to a gas station and it started after I put gas in it even though it wasn't bad gas and it wasn't empty.

August 7th, 2010, 07:19 AM	#7
ninjabadger ninjette.org member Name: Corey Location: Madison, WI Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R, 2008 Genuine Buddy 50 Posts: 121	No it doesn't turn. After I sit for a while then it will go.

August 7th, 2010, 07:28 AM	#8
mrlmd ninjette.org sage Name: Marc Location: Crawfordville, Florida Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848	Make sure all your battery and ground connections are tight - sounds like an intermittent total electrical disconnect. Do you have lights or horn when the starter won't turn over? Shouldn't the starter still turn over even if the CDI is bad?, that would just give you no spark, not no starter.

August 9th, 2010, 08:04 AM	#10
ninjabadger ninjette.org member Name: Corey Location: Madison, WI Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R, 2008 Genuine Buddy 50 Posts: 121	Okay, I had some revelations on my ride back to MI yesterday. I think I've ruled out electrical. What I thought was an unresponsive starter previously was me being unable to hear the starter due to my earplugs and the highway noise. I narrowed it down to fuel delivery based on the comments posted about cracking the fuel tank and an experiment I conducted. On my way back I ran at 80mph for about 80 miles before the bike died on me. I stopped on the side of the highway just long enough to lift my tank bag, vent the tank, button everything back up and get underway. I then maintained 80mph for another 70 miles when I arrived at my destination. I figured that if i had some kind of overheating power electronics it would crap out pretty quickly after the stop if I continued to run at high speed. So what i figure is that the tank isn't able to vent properly and a vacuum is being created in the tank as the fuel drains. I have a hypothesis that it's either the tank cap itself not venting enough or the rubberized contact patch on my tank bag creating an effectively airtight seal at the gas tank cap. Thoughts? How many folks have had a similar fuel delivery issue? Has anyone who has modded their tank cap to reduce whistling had this problem? Thanks to everyone who has chimed in. I still have one more long ride on Friday and I would like to have this sorted out by then or at least be on the way to a solution.

August 9th, 2010, 10:23 AM	#11
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	Well, so far, it sounds like you're getting it worse than anyone! It only happens to me a few times between major services... like 5-6 times total in the last 8K miles. I always have/use a tank bag but I kinda doubt it seals against it. My tanks still whistles (vents) and hasn't had the mod done. At first, Sean suspected that his was the CDI in this thread as well. We had a good discussion about it going there. I think it might have happened once when I crossed the country, in Alabama (started in GA). I thought it was bad gas or that I was out (still showed 1/8th a tank) and someone gave me a little when they saw me pushing. I've gotten my gauge down to "E" many times since, so I now doubt the "out of gas" hypothesis (that's where "bad gas?" assumption came from). After this started happening to me thousands of miles later, I re-evaluated. The only difference is that it wasn't my usual "run hard, slight cool down, run hard" combination that usualy triggers it. I had been on the road at top speed for 7/8ths of that tank of gas. Perhaps I built up a vacuum just the same by draining the tank faster than it could vent in those conditions.