Missing Rocker arm and valve adjust screw/nut - Page 2

kkim · May 10th, 2011, 05:25 PM

yes, you definitely need to find someone who has a good reputation as a welder and has worked on gas tanks and bikes before. if they are good, they can tell you beforehand if what you're asking to do is feasible.

I use to recommend using epoxy/JB weld, but have since stopped doing so after hearing of numerous patches that didn't work.

This is not something you want to save money on, only to find gas leaking onto a hot engine one day.

Ragnar1x · May 11th, 2011, 08:39 AM

I found a tank off the CA model. Will it fit non-CA model bike? It looks like it will fit, however the part numbers are slightly different. I think the part numbers may be different simply because of the different color schemes through the years though. Any thoughts?

EDIT:
Ehh nevermind, it sold already.

There isn't any compatible tanks on ebay. Theres plenty of 08 and up and 86 and older. Can anybody point me in the direction of the repair job that is most likely to be successful.

Ragnar1x · May 21st, 2011, 01:07 PM

Update here. I bought a very slightly used tank without leaks or rust. It's not here yet, but I thought I'd finish working on the bike with the leaking tank; I simply was only putting in a gallon at a time and running off the reserve.

After the valve adjustment, the bike still was terribly sluggish in the low end. Above 5k and it would cruise just fine. I then synced the carbs, it made it a little better, but still not good.

The bike also had trouble idling below 2.5k when warm and needed the choke on for over 5 minutes before it would run without it. The idle was slightly erratic and the engine would hang when revved.

I then took off the carbs, and cleaned every component, it was pristine when I put it back together. It wasn't bad at all when I took it off. I was expected to see clogged jets that was causing the bike to run terrible at idle. I also adjusted the idle mixture screws. They still had the factory caps on them, so I removed them and counted the turns till closed. They were set at 2.25 turns, so it was running a little lean.

I turned them to 2.5 turns and slapped everything back together. Idles around 2k, still hangs a little when revved, although not nearly as bad as before. While the bike is running and warmed up, i open up the idle mixture screws a little more. I got the idle to 1.5k-ish, and the bike hangs very very slightly, but comes back down to 1.5k.

I take it for a test ride down the street and the bike wants to pull away from me under 5k now. HUGE difference. Its a completely different bike and is exactly what I was looking for.

I think the biggest change I did was adjusting the idle mixture screws. They were set too lean from the factory and the bike simply didn't like it. I would highly advise everyone to look into this adjustment if they haven't already.

Now I'm going to take a shower and have a beer celebrating a win here.

Thanks to everyone on this forum, without reading many of the threads here I don't think I would have been as successful as I was.

greg737 · May 21st, 2011, 02:36 PM

Sounds like you're getting it figured out. Here's a thought or two on the idle situation that may help you get it more finely tuned.

First, you haven't mentioned "Syncronizing" the carbs. This is important because it's one of the three requirements you have to satisfy before you can even begin to set the bike's idle correctly: 1.Clean the carbs 2.Properly adjust the valves, and 3.Syncronize the carbs.

It seems you've got two out of three done so far, and the reason to do the third (Syncing) is because if the two carbs aren't properly syncronized your idle adjustment efforts could be de-adjusting one cylinder while properly adjusting the other.

Here's a good "how-to" page: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...carburetors%3F

Once you've got the carbs syncronized you can be confident in your idle adjustment.

Remember that the idle speed of the engine is meant to be controlled by the Idle Adjust Knob (that little black plastic knob on the bottom of the carbs), and that the process of getting a correct idle is sort of a balancing act between this knob and the Idle Mixture Screws. With the bike fully warmed up you set the idle speed you want (1,500 plus or minus a hundred is a good target because a 2,000rpm idle can cause the bike to overheat in stop-and-go traffic in warmer weather). Once you get the idle speed set get ready to adjust the Idle Mixture Screws. You blip the throttle and see what the engine does: if it the rpm hangs high it's still to lean, if it drops below the target idle while returning it's too rich. Change the Idle Mixture Screws 1/4 turn in the proper direction and blip the throttle again.

Also, because it's a "new to you" bike you might want to confirm that the intake boots between the cylinder head and the carbs are oriented correctly. I know it sounds goofy but they're marked "carb" on one end and "head" on the other and it makes a difference in creating a proper carb-to-engine seal. Putting these on backwards causes loss of vacuum, wierd idle performance and stalling when you come to a stop. It's almost a worse situation if only one is on wrong. Having just one of them installed backwards can create a "weak-cylinder-strong-cylinder" situation that's very hard to diagnose.

Overall it sounds like you're making good progress with the bike.

Ragnar1x · May 21st, 2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg737

Also, because it's a "new to you" bike you might want to confirm that the intake boots between the cylinder head and the carbs are oriented correctly. I know it sounds goofy but they're marked "carb" on one end and "head" on the other and it makes a difference in creating a proper carb-to-engine seal. Putting these on backwards causes loss of vacuum, wierd idle performance and stalling when you come to a stop. It's almost a worse situation if only one is on wrong. Having just one of them installed backwards can create a "weak-cylinder-strong-cylinder" situation that's very hard to diagnose.

Overall it sounds like you're making good progress with the bike.

I just forget to mention it, I did sync the carbs prior to any of this. I will probably go back and sync again, and fine tune the idle mixture once more because I know it can be a little better than it is.

Thats interesting about the intake boots. I know I put them on the same way they came off, however, I will have to check to make sure they are oriented correctly.

Depending on the weather, I may have another update tomorrow.

This is a fun bike to work on. This has been a great refresher to me on how everything is working together. I have been riding fuel injected bikes for a while now and you kind of forget whats going on behind the scenes.

Ragnar1x · May 22nd, 2011, 09:28 AM

Resynced the carbs and further adjusted the idle mixture's. The bike will now idle smooth as low as 1100, I have it set to 1400. Power is smooth up to 14k. The bike is ready to go, as soon as the new tank comes in.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped in this journey.

May 11th, 2011, 08:39 AM	#42
Ragnar1x ninjette.org member Name: John Location: CT Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): CBR 600 F4i, 06 250R Posts: 28	I found a tank off the CA model. Will it fit non-CA model bike? It looks like it will fit, however the part numbers are slightly different. I think the part numbers may be different simply because of the different color schemes through the years though. Any thoughts? EDIT: Ehh nevermind, it sold already. There isn't any compatible tanks on ebay. Theres plenty of 08 and up and 86 and older. Can anybody point me in the direction of the repair job that is most likely to be successful. Last futzed with by Ragnar1x; May 11th, 2011 at 04:48 PM.

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May 10th, 2011, 05:25 PM	#41
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	yes, you definitely need to find someone who has a good reputation as a welder and has worked on gas tanks and bikes before. if they are good, they can tell you beforehand if what you're asking to do is feasible. I use to recommend using epoxy/JB weld, but have since stopped doing so after hearing of numerous patches that didn't work. This is not something you want to save money on, only to find gas leaking onto a hot engine one day.

May 21st, 2011, 01:07 PM	#43
Ragnar1x ninjette.org member Name: John Location: CT Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): CBR 600 F4i, 06 250R Posts: 28	Update here. I bought a very slightly used tank without leaks or rust. It's not here yet, but I thought I'd finish working on the bike with the leaking tank; I simply was only putting in a gallon at a time and running off the reserve. After the valve adjustment, the bike still was terribly sluggish in the low end. Above 5k and it would cruise just fine. I then synced the carbs, it made it a little better, but still not good. The bike also had trouble idling below 2.5k when warm and needed the choke on for over 5 minutes before it would run without it. The idle was slightly erratic and the engine would hang when revved. I then took off the carbs, and cleaned every component, it was pristine when I put it back together. It wasn't bad at all when I took it off. I was expected to see clogged jets that was causing the bike to run terrible at idle. I also adjusted the idle mixture screws. They still had the factory caps on them, so I removed them and counted the turns till closed. They were set at 2.25 turns, so it was running a little lean. I turned them to 2.5 turns and slapped everything back together. Idles around 2k, still hangs a little when revved, although not nearly as bad as before. While the bike is running and warmed up, i open up the idle mixture screws a little more. I got the idle to 1.5k-ish, and the bike hangs very very slightly, but comes back down to 1.5k. I take it for a test ride down the street and the bike wants to pull away from me under 5k now. HUGE difference. Its a completely different bike and is exactly what I was looking for. I think the biggest change I did was adjusting the idle mixture screws. They were set too lean from the factory and the bike simply didn't like it. I would highly advise everyone to look into this adjustment if they haven't already. Now I'm going to take a shower and have a beer celebrating a win here. Thanks to everyone on this forum, without reading many of the threads here I don't think I would have been as successful as I was.

May 21st, 2011, 02:36 PM	#44
greg737 - Name: - Location: - Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.	Sounds like you're getting it figured out. Here's a thought or two on the idle situation that may help you get it more finely tuned. First, you haven't mentioned "Syncronizing" the carbs. This is important because it's one of the three requirements you have to satisfy before you can even begin to set the bike's idle correctly: 1.Clean the carbs 2.Properly adjust the valves, and 3.Syncronize the carbs. It seems you've got two out of three done so far, and the reason to do the third (Syncing) is because if the two carbs aren't properly syncronized your idle adjustment efforts could be de-adjusting one cylinder while properly adjusting the other. Here's a good "how-to" page: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...carburetors%3F Once you've got the carbs syncronized you can be confident in your idle adjustment. Remember that the idle speed of the engine is meant to be controlled by the Idle Adjust Knob (that little black plastic knob on the bottom of the carbs), and that the process of getting a correct idle is sort of a balancing act between this knob and the Idle Mixture Screws. With the bike fully warmed up you set the idle speed you want (1,500 plus or minus a hundred is a good target because a 2,000rpm idle can cause the bike to overheat in stop-and-go traffic in warmer weather). Once you get the idle speed set get ready to adjust the Idle Mixture Screws. You blip the throttle and see what the engine does: if it the rpm hangs high it's still to lean, if it drops below the target idle while returning it's too rich. Change the Idle Mixture Screws 1/4 turn in the proper direction and blip the throttle again. Also, because it's a "new to you" bike you might want to confirm that the intake boots between the cylinder head and the carbs are oriented correctly. I know it sounds goofy but they're marked "carb" on one end and "head" on the other and it makes a difference in creating a proper carb-to-engine seal. Putting these on backwards causes loss of vacuum, wierd idle performance and stalling when you come to a stop. It's almost a worse situation if only one is on wrong. Having just one of them installed backwards can create a "weak-cylinder-strong-cylinder" situation that's very hard to diagnose. Overall it sounds like you're making good progress with the bike.

May 22nd, 2011, 09:28 AM	#46
Ragnar1x ninjette.org member Name: John Location: CT Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): CBR 600 F4i, 06 250R Posts: 28	Resynced the carbs and further adjusted the idle mixture's. The bike will now idle smooth as low as 1100, I have it set to 1400. Power is smooth up to 14k. The bike is ready to go, as soon as the new tank comes in. Thanks again to everyone who has helped in this journey.