Dealership B.S.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

Funny, but bewteen the dealer, the finance company and my insurance agent, not a single one asked if I had an endorsement when I got my first bike. It seems stupid IMO, but I'd bet having an endorsement as a requirement for purchase is not articulated in the law in any state. I know it's not in CA.

Insurance companies are funny creatures. Instead of denying people insurance who don't have a driver's license, maybe they just up their rates in some states.

[lc86]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Yes I believe that. I never debate for fun.

A helmet does not make you a better rider. You can't handle the twisties any better with a helmet. A helmet's main purpose is to protect your head in a crash - not to make you a better rider.

A law requiring a helmet is a law mandating personal safety. A law prohibiting dealers from selling supersports to people as beginner bikes isn't mandating personal safety, but corporate responsibility. If an inexperienced newbie really wanted a supersport bad enough, he could still buy it from a private seller.

So Alex, would you want your kid's first learner bike to be a ZX-14R?

Just to clarify your argument, using an analogy with cages you would rather the law restrict the size of engine in a car for beginner drivers than the law requiring the wearing of a seatbelt while driving? Wearing a seatbelt doesn't make you a better driver. I agree that not all bikes are suitable as beginner bikes, but the ones who buy more than they can handle are also usually the ones who don't wear proper safety gear or take safety courses and will wreck anything they buy anyways.

For example, I was in a store the other day and some guy (~16 yrs old or so) asked me about my bike, he wanted to start riding and was looking at bikes. When I told him he said he couldnt buy something that small and that he thinks he found the bike he wanted. I said "let me guess, a gsxr600", he said yup, I asked if he was going to buy safety gear, he said after he saves up money for it he might, I told him to give me a call when hes in the hospital.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by lc86

Just to clarify your argument, using an analogy with cages you would rather the law restrict the size of engine in a car for beginner drivers than the law requiring the wearing of a seatbelt while driving?

Guy has silly logic haha

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lc86

Just to clarify your argument, using an analogy with cages you would rather the law restrict the size of engine in a car for beginner drivers than the law requiring the wearing of a seatbelt while driving?

In cars, I would favor restricting the size of vehicle not the engine. So which would you rather see driving through your neighborhood - a 15 year old driving a Ford 550 with 60" tires or a 15 year old driving a Yugo?

Jiggles, didn't you say this....

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I think I'm the perfect person to answer all of your questions, I have both bikes. Now I have the new 2012 650 not the older 650r. They changed a buncha stuff on it but the engine is the same. And honestly learning to ride on that kind of engine could prove difficult. It has a ton of power, more than you will ever use, extremely fast throttle response and its pretty jerky in the low speeds. It engine breaks hard. If you are trying to maneuver in 1st and 2nd and you cut throttle, you get thrown into the gas tank. Combine a more difficult to handle bike with new rider experience and it's not always a great mix. I really would recommend getting a 250 first, but considering the pricing, if you really feel you could handle the extra difficulty that the 650 would offer it would be a good option.

You seem to be saying that the 650 is not a beginner bike...

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

You seem to be saying that the 650 is not a beginner bike...

It's not the best beginner bike, the 250 is, however I don't think it would be a bad idea to start on a 650, just understand that it will be more difficult, mistakes are amplified.

[Ninja Assassin]

OP, you have to take anything a salesperson says at a dealership with a grain of salt man. My wife worked at a dealership and all of them talked like that. They weren't trying to be sneaky and trick people into buying a bigger bike completely. They just happen to be like most "amurcans" and bigger is better. You know, their entire life is a pecker measuring contest.
The manager (who was actually a good friend) told me not to buy a 250 b/c they were so slow etc (all the usual). He was trying to give genuine advice. But i was like "man i've riden all types of bikes before...you know that. You're the one that lets me ride your demo bikes, stupid..." I wanted a new bike, with the sportsbike look and a gas saver. it fit the bill all the way around.



Now i bought my bike at a different dealership from a girl actually. She didn't give a damn. I asked her opinion just for giggles and she was like "well...do YOU like it? Then get the damn thing". I will be visiting her again as soon as i can afford a larger bike.

Long story short: A lot of the sales guys are just your typical squidish type guys who decided since they ride a bike they should sell them. They don't have any more knowledge of the bikes than a lot of the customers. Most customers know more about the particular bike b/c they research it to death before actually buying.

[Jiggles]

My local dealer had a different opinion, when I expressed interest in the Ninja 1000, he said coming from a 250, it might be too much. He suggested I go with either the Ninja 650 or FZ6r

[massacremasses]

holy **** a 250 to 1000 is a pretty big step...

[Jiggles]

It has a mode selector... couldn't be that bad haha

Well heres my opinion, it costs a lot of money to go 250 to 650 to 1000. What if you dont have the financial means to go through 3 bikes in say 6 years?

[Jiggles]

If you go to costco, you can get the family set for the three of them at a good price, thats my plan

Originally Posted by Jiggles

If you go to costco, you can get the family set for the three of them at a good price, thats my plan

..... better get a family set of 3 new femurs too in case you break yours again

[massacremasses]

why anyone wants a 1000 is beyond me...

[Jiggles]

I'm just going to get the titanium bone replacement set that they have.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

[The Ninja 650R is] not the best beginner bike, the 250 is, however I don't think it would be a bad idea to start on a 650, just understand that it will be more difficult, mistakes are amplified.

Speaking as a person with zero riding experience 18 months ago, I can say for a fact that if the stupid mistakes I made on the 250 were amplified, I wouldn't be here today. Its also possible that a few pedestrians and kids waiting for the school bus might not be here either.

I mean, I am talking about the same newbie that got countersteering mixed up and accidentally turned into the path of a Mack truck. Putting someone like that (with zero experience) on a 650 or bigger would be a danger to both himself and to other people.

Originally Posted by massacremasses

why anyone wants a 1000 is beyond me...

I dont think I would want a 1000 either unless I was loaded I would get a ducati or BMW when I had the experience. I would be perfectly happy with a 600

[Jiggles]

Yet people survive it right @akshay11?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

why anyone wants a 1000 is beyond me...

IMO, the Ninja 1000 is the most comfortable bike in the world, that's why I want one.

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I'm just going to get the titanium bone replacement set that they have.

Ill just rip your legs off then

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by codestp202

Ill just rip your legs off then

That's not nice

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

Funny, but bewteen the dealer, the finance company and my insurance agent, not a single one asked if I had an endorsement when I got my first bike.

A lot of information can be obtained electronically nowadays and it's been this way for a while. If this ability exists in your state, it's quite possible that the insurance company simply pulled this info electronically using your driver's license #. Usually they do this any ways to confirm your endorsement and any infractions on your record.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

holy **** a 250 to 1000 is a pretty big step...

Originally Posted by massacremasses

why anyone wants a 1000 is beyond me...

The Ninja 1000 I test rode at the demo day was absolutely amazing. It was solid and it felt good in turns and it was the perfect level of sport and comfort and I could ride that thing all day and it would be perfect because it gives good feedback and disappears under you. It was simply a great bike. I would completely ride that if I could afford it. It wasn't killer like an SS, but had more pick-up than I could ever realistically justify. Honestly, that's the kind of bike I want to be riding when I'm older in life. I don't want a tourer or a sport tourer, I want a comfy sport bike like the ninja 1000. Kawasaki really did well by that bike. Honestly I never thought I would ever realistically want a 1000cc bike (besides the obvious lusting, drooling kind of want that always come from a 19 year old) but that bike changed my mind. The jump wasn't a big deal either. Work on throttle control and smoothness on the 250; those skills will transfer to any bike you ever want to ride.

[etiainen]

I like it as well...however..

I could not for the life of me go the speed limit. Then again the pace set was quite over the speed limit...it would be fun to have one of those, but lest I'm on some isolated roads it wouldn't work out day to day for me.

[choneofakind]

Heck, I can barely keep it at the speed limit on my 250.

I figure I'll be responsible some day.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

The Ninja 1000 I test rode at the demo day was absolutely amazing. It was solid and it felt good in turns and it was the perfect level of sport and comfort and I could ride that thing all day and it would be perfect because it gives good feedback and disappears under you. It was simply a great bike. I would completely ride that if I could afford it. It wasn't killer like an SS, but had more pick-up than I could ever realistically justify. Honestly, that's the kind of bike I want to be riding when I'm older in life. I don't want a tourer or a sport tourer, I want a comfy sport bike like the ninja 1000. Kawasaki really did well by that bike. Honestly I never thought I would ever realistically want a 1000cc bike (besides the obvious lusting, drooling kind of want that always come from a 19 year old) but that bike changed my mind. The jump wasn't a big deal either. Work on throttle control and smoothness on the 250; those skills will transfer to any bike you ever want to ride.

+1

I haven't gotten to ride one but I can tell that the Ninja 1000 is the bike for me. I don't know how to explain it, it's just a perfect fit. I could care less for the excess power, the 650 keeps me happy. It's just sort of like when you find that perfect pair of jeans, or the perfect pair of shoes. I'll buy the 1000 most likely after I am out of college

[etiainen]

It was more like double over.:/

[JeffM]

Fixed:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Honestly I never thought I would ever realistically want a 1000cc bike (besides the obvious lusting, drooling kind of want that always come from a 55 year old)

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Fixed: