Stay safe group ride discussion

[rusninja]

My 2c Is that We should Be in little groups That are established before the ride has started.

Anyone new or never been on the rode is set on the last slower group.

Stay with in set group even if it feels slow for you theres always other rides you can go in a faster group.

Stay close Because seriously we go on group rides to be in a group not only for fun but also safety.

Thats some things off the top of my head. Lets hear some more things to keep us safe.

[Alex]

Different ride groups can help, but they aren't a panacea, especially for a relatively small group. Riders that do prefer to ride slowly together can and should do so. Riders who want to ride slower than that should also do so. Those who are more comfortable riding faster are always free to do that as well.

Nothing about group rides is inherently more dangerous than individual rides, yet there are risk factors for both of them. The compulsion to "keep up with the group" is a strong one, even when people are consciously aware that they don't need to. And shouldn't, if it takes them out of their comfort zone. That's one of the attractions of this particular route, as no matter what someone's pace, they will get to the same place without any risk or worry of getting lost or left behind.

I think more thorough safety briefings to get these points across and answer any questions newer riders are helpful. There's no way to eliminate our own risk, let alone eliminate someone else's risk. But taking any stress level or worry down on the ride, so riders truly can ride their own ride, is certainly a positive step.

[rojoracing53]

I see group rides as a chance to hang out with other like minded people and if I find someone who rides my pace comfortably then that's a bonus. Most the time I choose to ride much slower and hang with other riders and do some filming or offer riding advise, other times I'll ride by myself at my pace away from others so I don't pull them along. Group ride, trackdays, or any other time your on two wheels you simply always ride within your comfort zone and if you feel the need to push outside your limits save it for the track please. On bigger rides like the mellow BARF ride with 30+ people I see the need to have leaders, sweeps, slow and fast groups but it's more a bonus then an expected necessity in my opinion.

If you can't ride your own pace within your comfort zone uninfluenced by other riders around you then group riding may not be for you but I doesn't mean you won't get there some day.

[csmith12]

We break up our group too. Fast group, med pace group, "comfort group". Everyone is chill about it too. Get a sweeper in your group. Sure it's no fun for them but it's the right thing to do.

For tips on what I tell new riders to a group ride, see my signature.

[rojoracing53]

I forgot to add but a quick pre ride briefing to reiterate the basic rule of "THE PACE" wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe we can make a sticky under group rides with less then ten quick points to touch base on before heading out. That way any group ride leader can print it read it and ride. What do you guys think about that? I can make a few suggestions to the list if you guys want but as an outsider to leaning to ride on the street I'd like to hear what points you guys think rank as important first before chiming in.

[cuong-nutz]

We do a lot of group rides here in Houston and it has gotten to a point to where a lot of ride leaders stop putting on group rides due to riders going down.

We have a standard thing on group rides:
Mandatory that everyone has an ICE card on them.
Their bikes are fit for the ride, Good tires, chain, etc.
All the gear. Boots, Jacket, Helmet, gloves, Knee/shin guard.

Mandatory safety briefing before each ride:
Find out who's all experienced riders RIDING IN TURNS.
Separate group Faster paced/slower paced
Designated sweeper.
hand signals.

We tell our riders that this ride is not a race and for everyone to ride within their limits. If they find themselves messing up that they need to slow down. We leave no rider behind and we will stop at each stop to wait for everyone.

What I see the most is riders saying they have had so many years of riding but they've been riding freeways all those years and wreck when they come into a turn. Then there's that main thing that Alex pointed out, the compulsion to "keep up with the group".

Generally we like to keep group rides small and controlled, but sometimes that's not the case.

[csmith12]

The only thing that is not on my list that I would add is the "gotcha spots along the planed route that ride."

[csmith12]

And fyi, I do a secret tech on everyone's bike before the ride as I walk around and meet new peeps. Gives me a good excuse to say HI!

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by csmith12

The only thing that is not on my list that I would add is the "gotcha spots along the planed route that ride."

Yeah, that's a good one. We usually tell people the route and the road conditions too.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by csmith12

The only thing that is not on my list that I would add is the "gotcha spots along the planed route that ride."

You mean problem spots like surprise hairpins or gravel?

[CC Cowboy]

I always thought "not crashing" (under any circumstance) is the most important rule.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

You mean problem spots like surprise hairpins or gravel?

Yea, common spots for gravel wash, speed zones, speed traps, high traffic areas, local events, family friendly areas and signage that is "truth". There are a some corners on my normal route where the signage is 100% gospel. Experience riders know that most of the signage is bull when it comes to speed and any given corner but sometimes..... it's spot on.

For example, it's deer season in my area. The deer are stirred up so extra precaution should be observed. Festivals, Sunday church, ect... ect... should be known ahead of time.

On my group rides we have riders from IN, OH and KY coming. Sometimes 50+ riders. I lead the med. pace group a lot of time. Communication is key between you and the sweeper. Knowing your pace times for a given stretch of pavement is paramount to predicting something is up before you phone rings too. I have turned around and been on my way back before the sweeper even let me know something didn't go right.

[csmith12]

We need a how to lead a group thread.

[Alex]

I thought we had one, but if I can't find it and you can't find it, perhaps we do need one. Good tips so far in this thread, and I agree with most all of the thoughts. CC's rule is pretty much the golden one, and everything else is in support of that same goal.

[cuong-nutz]

How to set up a NOOB Ride:
http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=213475

Group Ride basics:
http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Group_Ride.pdf

The Pace:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fl...nick_ienatsch/

[tuan3742]

yeah, I definitely should of kept a better pace for myself on our ride yesterday. after a certain point, I was pretty much on my own and the thought of catching up made me exit my comfort zone. even though that small down wasnt that bad, it really messed with my head and the very first left turn after our break I panicked and froze up and it ended up being more damaging to my bike.

will those downs stop me from riding? no.
did I learn from those downs? yes

the downs gave me a better perspective on my limits and I should definitely take it easy for a bit to regain my confidence and clear my head and heart.

something I lost sight of on that ride was: ride your own ride. I'll be sure to keep that in check from now on.

[psych0hans]

Am I the only one who thinks that tim, god bless his soul, just got a little too confident for his own good and and made that one error in judgement and paid the highest price for it? His confidence may/may not have been heightened being part of a group, I can't say, but when in a group, energy levels do tend to be high causing a heightened sense of comfort/confidence in ones own abilities. Just my 2c... I hope I didn't offend anyone with my post.

[rojoracing53]

Cam and I were playing catchup since we decided to get an 120miles in before meet up at Starbucks so I didn't get a chance to meet Tim and the others that stopped. So I can't really comment of my impression of Tim but I can say that the group was quite calm compared to most group rides I've been on so you most likely right in a small mistake with unfortunately high consequence. I'm sure Tuan will agree that he's very lucky in his second incident of the day because had it been something else besides soft dirt and weeds on the outside of that corner it could have been a different result. Not to sound discouraging but everyone knows their limits and it's their own responsibility to ride within them.

[dfox]

Suggestions for rules are fine, but the Subaru chapter in the pacnw banned organized drives after several people died in single car crashes. Start to provide safety requirements and you might be taking on liability. In my opinion, you either take the responsibility and regulate them and have waivers, or you do nothing.

[gitoy]

i just got back on a 90 mile canyon ride at angeles crest...as usual i was by myself...this time on the 250...and i was so in tuned with the bike just leaning on the corners with no pressure in the world..and slow enough to be able to soak in the scenery...

i have been on some group rides and frankly i enjoy riding by myself more ...yes there is the camaraderie (sic)? with others and finding out one is not really that fast...i have over 150k miles under my belt and the last group i was with at the crest left me in the dust...yes i rode my own ride but i can see how easy it is to want to keep up...

i remember my first group ride many many years ago at the crest...what started out as a casual ride turned into who can go the fastest...soon just about everybody tried to keep up and one guy lowsided, and wound up being heloed out...

people just need to stay away from group rides specially in the twisties till they have a season or 5k miles under them...

[tuan3742]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Cam and I were playing catchup since we decided to get an 120miles in before meet up at Starbucks so I didn't get a chance to meet Tim and the others that stopped. So I can't really comment of my impression of Tim but I can say that the group was quite calm compared to most group rides I've been on so you most likely right in a small mistake with unfortunately high consequence. I'm sure Tuan will agree that he's very lucky in his second incident of the day because had it been something else besides soft dirt and weeds on the outside of that corner it could have been a different result. Not to sound discouraging but everyone knows their limits and it's their own responsibility to ride within them.

yeah, I know that I was very fortunate that it was just a ditch. when I found out about Tim, it hit me harder just how lucky I was that it wasn't the side of the mountain.
I'm glad that the people behind me were there to calm me down and talk me through it. you were the one in the blue suit right? your words helped me out after the down

[Alex]

My motorcycle club has gone through that legal discussion a number of times, with a number of different attorneys (both paid and unpaid) over the years. Generally, anyone can sue anyone for anything. But actually winning a suit against an organization like that, or an individual involved with a particular ride, is a different question. The current legal advice is that posting up rides on an electronic bulletin board that is relatively open to the public, puts virtually zero liability for the safety of those rides or the the riders that are on them. For this site there are disclaimers (right at the top of the group rides section), and for my club site, there is something similar. But the goal is to discourage suits in the first place, which means that promoting safety is never a bad idea.

None of the safety recommendations in either a pre-ride safety speech, a list printed off a website with how-to's for group rides, or any other well-meaning efforts raise to the level of legal requirements for people to attend a ride, that is just happening on the public roads anyway. People continue to be free to do whatever they want, responsible for only themselves, as always.

[Lychee]

Instead of concentrating on how to manage the safety of a group ride, I prefer to look at the fun factor.

How I view it:
I have never had fun on a group ride in which the rider in front of me takes off on their own. At times I have tried to keep up and the discomfort of riding a speed outside my skill level discourages the fun factor. Sometimes I try not to ride any faster and ride my own ride, and because of that I have been left in the dust. That is sometimes necessary, but never fun. If I am alone, what is the point of a group ride? I might as well ride alone.

How I act upon my view:
My advice is to keep the next rider after you in your mirrors. If I cannot see them, they are alone. I put myself in their shoes. If I was alone, all the fun and camaraderie from the group ride evaporates and the ride becomes an ordinary solo ride. Keep it fun! A glance as you ride along a straightaway is all it takes. Given my history of rides with certain riders, my decision to ride along is greatly affected by how often I am left to ride alone.


Ultimately it is the rider's decision where, when, how fast, and with who they ride. Remember who you were riding with and use your head if the opportunity to ride with them presents itself again in the future.

[dfox]

Seems like good info Alex. I think the Subie club might have been a little conservative in its approach, but they did have a very bad track record. Cars off clifs, into trees, people without seatbelts, etc.

I think some group rides suffer because of the macho man group mentality. The only way I see to fix it, is to break the group up by skill level. I know if I organized a snowboarding trip, that's how I'd do it. Some people can hang, others still have steps to take. Problem is, it's up to someone to make that determination, because it's hard for someone to admit they're not as good as everyone else.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by tuan3742

yeah, I know that I was very fortunate that it was just a ditch. when I found out about Tim, it hit me harder just how lucky I was that it wasn't the side of the mountain.
I'm glad that the people behind me were there to calm me down and talk me through it. you were the one in the blue suit right? your words helped me out after the down

Yeah I'm the big blueberry on the black 250 with the givi box. The R-1 rider Jeremy and I are both ex racers so we know what is like to have to come back after a crash and continue to race the rest of the weekend with a doubtful mind. Just glad we could help in any way even if only a little. If you ever have questions fell free to ask everyone here is full of good advise.

As for keeping the rider behind you in your mirrors I see where your going with this but on the flip side. I done that only to find I'm actually pulling the rider along outside their comfort zone like a carrot and I've had them crash trying to keep up (I was going easy myself). It a delicate balance that I'm better at with some riders more then others.

I know no one is implying it but ill say it anyways and that's I'm sorry if my faster riding upset anyone this weekend and I mean no disrespect in doing so. I do enjoy riding with the ninjette riders because they tend to be more conservided (you have to be to ride a 250 ) and less likely to have that gixxer ego.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I do enjoy riding with the ninjette riders because they tend to be more conservided (you have to be to ride a 250 ) and less likely to have that gixxer ego.

We need larger egos, we ride ninjettes for ****s sake!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by gitoy

i just got back on a 90 mile canyon ride at angeles crest...as usual i was by myself...this time on the 250...and i was so in tuned with the bike just leaning on the corners with no pressure in the world..and slow enough to be able to soak in the scenery...

i have been on some group rides and frankly i enjoy riding by myself more ...yes there is the camaraderie (sic)? with others and finding out one is not really that fast...i have over 150k miles under my belt and the last group i was with at the crest left me in the dust...yes i rode my own ride but i can see how easy it is to want to keep up...

i remember my first group ride many many years ago at the crest...what started out as a casual ride turned into who can go the fastest...soon just about everybody tried to keep up and one guy lowsided, and wound up being heloed out...

people just need to stay away from group rides specially in the twisties till they have a season or 5k miles under them...

I fully agree.

IMHO, motorcycling is best enjoyed as a solo activity.

Groups decrease what needs to be high: attention, and increase what needs to be low: testosterone; all in an unforgiving environment.

How a newbie can know that without learning it from an experienced rider who mentors and leads him during the group ride?

That is the method of novice track days in an environment that is much safer and with emergency care at hand.