Ecotrons Install Thread

[lolibater]

The bike will start with no FRP if we block off the fuel return to the tank. As soon as we unclamp the return line the engine dies. We are blocking them off with fuel injection pliers so it's with the proper tool.

It accepts revs to redline no problem when we block the return.

Does the FPR build pressure, and if so, would this indicate that mine is broken? We already know it's missing an o ring. Maybe it also was completely faulty. Is there any long term repercussions of running with the return blocked off with no FRP?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lolibater

The bike will start with no FRP if we block off the fuel return to the tank. As soon as we unclamp the return line the engine dies. We are blocking them off with fuel injection pliers so it's with the proper tool.

It accepts revs to redline no problem when we block the return.

Does the FPR build pressure, and if so, would this indicate that mine is broken? We already know it's missing an o ring. Maybe it also was completely faulty. Is there any long term repercussions of running with the return blocked off with no FRP?

Again, you run it like that you are screwing up your ECU program.

Repercussions? Like blown injectors, other o-rings and burned out fuel pumps, stuff like that? Yes, all of the above. Stop running it without the FPR unless you are trying to destroy it.

Your FPR was working fine when you got the bike. So the o-ring was in there. It looks like it was destroyed when you tried to start it with the gas tank off.

In all fairness, Matt warned that the FPR could be damaged that way in this post...

[lolibater]

Calm down, we only ran it that way once.

It's cool, we got another o ring from a friend, and it's fine now. Turns out the oscillating idle was due to the idle adjust screw being loose and moving up and down. Super glue and zip ties fixed that. It seems to be running a lot better. Thanks for the help as usual.

Oh yeah it wouldn't start until I flashed the recent s19 over the existing ecu map

[choneofakind]

Might be a good idea to take some data and see what numbers you're getting off the O2 sensors after your air screw restraint system was put in place.

[lolibater]

Yeah I can log some data for you guys. I'm headed to the gas station, keep me in your prayers that the zipties hold. lol.

[ecotrons]

Guys,

To show some detials of the fuel pressure regulator, see the below pictures:

[ecotrons]

Lolibator,

Where are the original small O-ring and the fuel screen ?

They are not really "destroy-able". And they are not so small that you can not see them. You might have them dropped on the floor.

You better find them, and use the original ones. I don't know whether the one you got is perfect size or not. Plus the screen is useful to prevent the clogging.

[lolibater]

I did not drop it on the floor; it was not there. Neither was the screen. I was able to find an o-ring that fit the tip of the regulator, and the bike starts now.

IS there any way you can send me the proper o-ring and a new screen?

[n4mwd]

Thanks Matt,

I had forgotten what was inside the FPR. Obviously, someone took his apart and didn't put all the parts back in. I could accept the possibility of the little o-ring blowing out, but not the filter screen.

Also, the blue thing isn't as critical as I previously thought. Obviously from your photos, it isn't critical for the seal, its just a spacer. Loli had the o-ring stretched over the blue thing which threw me off track.

@lolibater, you need to buy a new FPR. Yours doesn't have all the parts.

[lolibater]

Matt, can you make that happen? I asked earlier via email if I could purchase one, but you just asked why.

[lolibater]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Thanks Matt,

I had forgotten what was inside the FPR. Obviously, someone took his apart and didn't put all the parts back in. I could accept the possibility of the little o-ring blowing out, but not the filter screen.

Also, the blue thing isn't as critical as I previously thought. Obviously from your photos, it isn't critical for the seal, its just a spacer. Loli had the o-ring stretched over the blue thing which threw me off track.

@lolibater, you need to buy a new FPR. Yours doesn't have all the parts.

Yeah I agree, that screen would be impossible to disintegrate. The previous owner of this botched the install of this kit so bad. It looks like this FPR will be the last piece of the puzzle though

[n4mwd]

Lolibater,

Without the little o-ring, the FPR will not work. If you look at Matt's photos, you can see how the fuel normally would flow into the holes under the screen, through the regulator, and then out the little port tube. Without the little o-ring, there is nothing to separate the inlet from the outlet. So the regulator is not effectively in the circuit.

In short, the bike isn't going to run without the little o-ring in the regulator. It could run without the screen, but not for long because, as you can see, the screen stabilizes the o-ring.

So if it was running when you rode it home from the guy you bought it from, and you are certain those parts are not on the floor, then the little o-ring must still be in the bike's tubing somewhere.

Just a theory, but IF the PO took the FPR apart and lost the little o-ring and the screen, he may have tried to replace it with an o-ring that isn't gas resistant. Remember I said earlier that it had to be made from viton or nitrile. So if the PO did that, then you are looking for little pieces of rubber.

[lolibater]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Lolibater,

Without the little o-ring, the FPR will not work. If you look at Matt's photos, you can see how the fuel normally would flow into the holes under the screen, through the regulator, and then out the little port tube. Without the little o-ring, there is nothing to separate the inlet from the outlet. So the regulator is not effectively in the circuit.

In short, the bike isn't going to run without the little o-ring in the regulator. It could run without the screen, but not for long because, as you can see, the screen stabilizes the o-ring.

So if it was running when you rode it home from the guy you bought it from, and you are certain those parts are not on the floor, then the little o-ring must still be in the bike's tubing somewhere.

Just a theory, but IF the PO took the FPR apart and lost the little o-ring and the screen, he may have tried to replace it with an o-ring that isn't gas resistant. Remember I said earlier that it had to be made from viton or nitrile. So if the PO did that, then you are looking for little pieces of rubber.

I was able to find the same size o-ring. I understand that it will not run without it. We replaced all the fuel tubing today, so if it was in there, it's gone now. The o-ring I'm now using is gas resistant.

I would still like to get and use the "correct" o-ring and screen.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by lolibater

Yeah I agree, that screen would be impossible to disintegrate. The previous owner of this botched the install of this kit so bad. It looks like this FPR will be the last piece of the puzzle though

I will sell you one FPR, not a problem, much less than $150 you found.

I asked why, because I don't jump on a conclusion without reasoning first.

You probably want to be a little more patient before complaining about the EFI kit. Last time you had a big complain, it was because of a bad valve timing, and you two repeated the adjustment 4 times or more. Still I had to remotely find the incorrect adjustment with the EFI data.

Not saying the EFI kit is perfect, it is an after-market kit after all. So many variables could be there, just because of every body could install it differently. Intalling the kit itself is a learning process for the fuel injection technology. You had some frustrations, but I am sure you also learnt a lot.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

...

Might wanna edit that: I don't see him complaining (at least not here). He said that the previous owner botched it. Not you guys.

It's funny because you just said you don't jump to conclusions.

[lolibater]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

I will sell you one FPR, not a problem, much less than $150 you found.

I asked why, because I don't jump on a conclusion without reasoning first.

You probably want to be a little more patient before complaining about the EFI kit. Last time you had a big complain, it was because of a bad valve timing, and you two repeated the adjustment 4 times or more. Still I had to remotely find the incorrect adjustment with the EFI data.

Not saying the EFI kit is perfect, it is an after-market kit after all. So many variables could be there, just because of every body could install it differently. Intalling the kit itself is a learning process for the fuel injection technology. You had some frustrations, but I am sure you also learnt a lot.

I just stated earlier that the professional who i brought the bike too told me my valves were perfect. I don't jump to conclusions either, I knew for a fact something was wrong with the FPR.

You seem very quick to want to blame it on "mechanical failure" not by the EFI kit components.

Yes I had frustrations, and yes I learned a lot. Either way, this is the only place I have to discuss frustrations and issues with this kit. You should be happy that I'm doing it here and not via email, so that all the future kit owners will have some more information to go off of.]

It's being made out like I'm bashing the kit, and not the install. Let me make in painfully clear, right here, right now, that there were both issues with the installation by the previous owner, as well as EFI kit component failure and/or issues.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by lolibater

Yeah, with it not starting again, I'm starting to lose faith again. I just want this kit to work already. Hopefully Matt will get me a quick regulator shipped. This kit has just been problem after problem.

I mean this one.

[lolibater]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Might wanna edit that: I don't see him complaining (at least not here). He said that the previous owner botched it. Not you guys.

It's funny because you just said you don't jump to conclusions.

THANK YOU. the previous owner set the idle wrong, placed the temp sensor in the wrong area, disassembled the FPR, among MANY other stupid ass moves.

There are only a very few select gripes I have about the kit in specific.

[lolibater]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

I mean this one.

You need to stop taking everything so literally / seriously / negatively. The kit HAS been only issues for me, but that's not to say that others don't or won't have success with it.

Trust me, if I was going to bash on the kit itself, it would be blatantly obvious.

One suggestion:
Maybe you could list the components from the kit on a link on your webpage? Prices too, so that if someone needs to order a piece or component of the kit, they can do so directly from the Ecotrons page. Just a thought.

[choneofakind]

Pause.

Let's all take a breath. Matt is here, and is getting an idea of what's going on.

Loli, it looks like we're uncovering each individual thing, one at a time. We figured out the temp gauge and pump placement, now we found the pressure regulator. I'm sure there will eventually be something later on, but we're getting there!! I assure you that the kit works, because even with a couple initial issues (mostly my learning the system), mine works well. I'm sure we can get yours there too. In the big scheme of things, buying a regulator and relocating a few things is minimal as used-bike-maintenance goes.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by lolibater

One suggestion:
Maybe you could list the components from the kit on a link on your webpage? Prices too, so that if someone needs to order a piece or component of the kit, they can do so directly from the Ecotrons page. Just a thought.

Thanks for the suggestion.
But managing the sales for all small parts would over-burden me.
I only sell kits but not individual parts for new customers. I do sell or warranty parts to existing customers as services.
That's why I do not list individual part prices (for sale) on the website.
I will send you email for FPR price.

[n4mwd]

Loli, have you checked the compression since your latest valve adjustment?

[lolibater]

No, I have not ran a compression test. I do not have the tester here.

Everything is working fine, other than my idle. I'm assuming the previous owner broke off the real adjustment screw, and ghetto rigged up a new one. Can someone take a picture of the idle adjustment screw that came with the kit? Also if you could measure it, that would be great too.

I had zip tied it into spot, and am 110% sure it has not moved, but this morning the idle was back to 0 from 1300. It was hot out when I ziptied it on, could the fact that it's cold now have caused it to contract? Idk. The adjustment is so sensitive that I could see the possibility of it contracting via temp.

I'm assuming I'll need to get the proper one.

Looking at this picture here:


It looks as if it's just a short phillips head screw with a single nut on the underside.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by lolibater

No, I have not ran a compression test. I do not have the tester here.

Everything is working fine, other than my idle. I'm assuming the previous owner broke off the real adjustment screw, and ghetto rigged up a new one. Can someone take a picture of the idle adjustment screw that came with the kit? Also if you could measure it, that would be great too.

I had zip tied it into spot, and am 110% sure it has not moved, but this morning the idle was back to 0 from 1300. It was hot out when I ziptied it on, could the fact that it's cold now have caused it to contract? Idk. The adjustment is so sensitive that I could see the possibility of it contracting via temp.

I'm assuming I'll need to get the proper one.

Looking at this picture here:


It looks as if it's just a short phillips head screw with a single nut on the underside.

Hmm maybe there is some confusion here. In picture you posted where have you been adjusting or zipting?

[lolibater]

It's hard to tell you, because my kit doesn't have the original idle adjustment screw. I have one the PO installed himself.

In the picture there is what appears to be a Phillips head screw with a single nut. In the picture, this is to the left of the left most vertical red line.

My current setup is just a threaded rod, with a nut on each side of the throttle body plate. This makes it extremely difficult to adjust. I wish the hole was threaded so that it would just stay put.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by lolibater

It's hard to tell you, because my kit doesn't have the original idle adjustment screw. I have one the PO installed himself.

In the picture there is what appears to be a Phillips head screw with a single nut. In the picture, this is to the left of the left most vertical red line.

My current setup is just a threaded rod, with a nut on each side of the throttle body plate. This makes it extremely difficult to adjust. I wish the hole was threaded so that it would just stay put.

hmm possibly the PO stripped them bc i swear they are threaded. But yeah u can use a different bolt and maybe some washers as spacers

[lolibater]

i like the washer idea! smart move there.

When I get home, I'll take a flat head and hammer and bust off the glue holding ti where it currently is. I'll take all the parts to Home Depot and see if I can find a comparable screw and nut set. I'll also grab a bunch of washers.

Can anyone confirm for me how long the stock adjustment screw is?

[n4mwd]

There were threads on the one I had. It was just a bolt with a nut on one side that worked like a stop nut. The threads are metric. Its possible that the PO jammed an American screw in there and buggered up the threads - then drilled them out. A simple solution is to re-tap the hole and just put a bolt through it.

But before you do that, you need to look closely at the hole to make sure he isn't just using a smaller bolt in the already threaded hole.

[lolibater]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

But before you do that, you need to look closely at the hole to make sure he isn't just using a smaller bolt in the already threaded hole.

I think this is what's happening. If I take the nuts off, it falls right through the hole. I think I would be better off just buying the correct one.

[choneofakind]

Don't mess with the idle speed screw. That adjusts where the butterflies go to at their "zero" position. If you mess with it, the throttle will go back to "off", but the TPS will still read some amount of throttle, and your bike will have some issues. When I was troubleshooting, Matt specifically told me not to mess with the throttle stop adjustment screw.

Do a test that I did. All you need is a set of feeler gauges, which you already have from doing valve checks. Put a thin feeler between the throttle stop and the little bracket on the throttle pulley, effectively giving the bike a little bit of gas.

As the ecotrons pdf file on tuning told me, if your bike needs a little throttle (like that the feeler will give) to idle, you need to back the air screws out to let more air in.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Don't mess with the idle speed screw. That adjusts where the butterflies go to at their "zero" position. If you mess with it, the throttle will go back to "off", but the TPS will still read some amount of throttle, and your bike will have some issues. When I was troubleshooting, Matt specifically told me not to mess with the throttle stop adjustment screw.

Do a test that I did. All you need is a set of feeler gauges, which you already have from doing valve checks. Put a thin feeler between the throttle stop and the little bracket on the throttle pulley, effectively giving the bike a little bit of gas.

As the ecotrons pdf file on tuning told me, if your bike needs a little throttle (like that the feeler will give) to idle, you need to back the air screws out to let more air in.

from my understanding of his posts is that his is broken and ghetto rigged to work as of now so he needs something that will stay still.

[lolibater]

Let me reiterate.

My bike is 100% running properly OTHER than that little screw being broken and incorrectly sized. I need to get a replacement one, exactly like that one that came with the kit.

[choneofakind]

Oh, well make sure that when you replace it, the TPS reads 0 when the throttle goes back to 0

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lolibater

I think this is what's happening. If I take the nuts off, it falls right through the hole. I think I would be better off just buying the correct one.

I forget exactly, but I think its a metric M4 or M5 bolt in there. Do you have a caliper? Measure the bolt that's there in mm and go up to the next whole number.

You'll probably have to re-tap it anyway. If its too loose, you can use some locktite on it.

[lolibater]

The TPS reads zero when it closes. Always has. Thank god lol.

I'm going to try to find something that fits from the hardware store until Matt can get me a new one. I can't afford to drive this gas hog car anymore haha.

[flynjay]

Instead of regular nuts, you could get locknuts.

[lolibater]

I saw some of those at the store yesterday, but couldn't tell the difference between them and a cap nut, other than the obvious open end. They both seemed to bottom out at the same point.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by lolibater

I saw some of those at the store yesterday, but couldn't tell the difference between them and a cap nut, other than the obvious open end. They both seemed to bottom out at the same point.

Just to make sure you are talking about the mechanical stop screw for idle position. that screw is actually specially designed for the TB, it is meant not be adjusted once out of factory. Because idle position is critical for emissions.

Anyway, for this kit, this idle screw is pre-fixed by us . Unless you see significant high idle or low idle, don't touch this one ( the yellow paint means don't change). There are 2 idle speed adjust screws on the side of 2 TBs that can be used to adjust idle air.

Don't use a random screw if you are not sure about the thread size. The thread mismatch could break it. .

I can get one of this screw for you.

[ecotrons]

Here are the pictures of "mechanical stop screw" and "2x idle air screws"

[lolibater]

I am talking about the idle stop screw. The idle was set to 500 rpms, much too low. The previous owner must have lost the one that came with the kit, and used his own, which is just a teeny tiny bit too small, causing it to move around. I have it ziptied into the correct position (~1300rpm) until you are able to mail me a new one.