December 5th, 2012, 02:26 PM | #1 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
Better brakes for the Ninja 250
I know most will say the bikes brakes are fine, of good enough and I'd agree for the standard 250 rider. I'd say the brakes work to about 90% of what I'd want but what I'm looking for is that extra 10% with half the lever force.
Here's what I'm thinking Find at suitable OEM 4 pot caliper I can get for cheap off eBay or maybe a new after market that doesn't brake the bank. Most likely it will have a larger mounting hole offset then our current brakes do so I manufacture a bracket to accommodate this. Since ill be making a bracket anyways I'd like to space the new caliper out a bit farther to accommodate a larger rotor. Optimal would be to find a suitable 600-1000 full braking system and eliminating the extra caliper but I haven't found any matches. Anyone have any references to this being done before? I should probably just toss on one of the many spare sport bike front ends on and have dual brakes but that's just to much work. Last futzed with by rojoracing53; January 18th, 2013 at 04:02 PM. |
|
December 5th, 2012, 02:30 PM | #2 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
its done frequently in indo and thai since they are more limited by taxes and displacement rules. but if you do, you won't be able to clean house in 250ss (stock rotors and calipers required)
__________________________________________________
|
|
December 5th, 2012, 02:36 PM | #3 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
As often as I race I could just swap back plus it would give me another excuse of why I can't race my bike.
|
|
December 5th, 2012, 02:38 PM | #4 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
just tell them "those are stock 530 calipers... with stock brembo 4pots........ what?"
__________________________________________________
|
|
December 5th, 2012, 02:40 PM | #5 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
|
I have never...and I mean NEVER...felt better OEM brake (pull) than on Zombiphone's bike. I don't know how she bled the brakes but that thing requires little pull. It's amazing!
__________________________________________________
|
|
December 5th, 2012, 03:39 PM | #7 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 2
|
quoted for emphasis I do not know
__________________________________________________
HalfFast Racing Team Serving Greater Houston Area Riders:WFO Riders MotoHouston HPC CMRA Ride Smart Fastline Lone Star Track Days |
|
December 6th, 2012, 04:55 AM | #9 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
I have to look around to see what I still have in radial mounted calipers but if I can get my hands on one these making my bracket could be much easier.
1999-2002 R6 |
|
December 6th, 2012, 08:55 AM | #10 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
Just found these in my garage 2006 R-6 a more complicated bracket will be needed for this, but nothing worth while comes easy right
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 10:12 AM | #11 | |
CVMA/AFM #72
Name: Tiffani
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r (Racebike), 2015 FZ-07(Tourer), 2001 KX65(LOL bike) Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
I really don't get what you did so differently though. Maybe those speed bleeder screws really do work better at getting all the air out? |
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 11:33 AM | #12 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
hey jason there is a guy in the indonesia who made a bracket that fits on the front wheel to give him dual rotors and dual calipers up front, if i remember right he simply duplicated the right side to the left side but theres no reason you couldn't do the same with different pots. can't find the link right now (too lazy) but he posted a writeup about it on this article... there is a great video detailing it on youtube.
__________________________________________________
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 01:31 PM | #13 | |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
|
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 02:00 PM | #14 |
CVMA/AFM #72
Name: Tiffani
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r (Racebike), 2015 FZ-07(Tourer), 2001 KX65(LOL bike) Posts: A lot.
|
No! You're mean to me!
No really though- TRUE STORY. They're just bleeder screws that fool proof the bleeding process by letting air leave the brakelines but making it so it can't go back in while you're bleeding them (Not that I need fool proofing or anything). Nothing you can't replicate by simply being good at brake bleeding though, so that's probably not why mine are seemingly more responsive. Unless, of course, you know, you're NOT so good at ALL THE THINGS afterall |
|
December 6th, 2012, 02:21 PM | #15 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
|
I'm just gonna swap your brakes over to my bike seeing how you're not going fast enough to warrant the use of brakes.
__________________________________________________
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 02:26 PM | #16 | |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
|
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 02:31 PM | #17 | |
CVMA/AFM #72
Name: Tiffani
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r (Racebike), 2015 FZ-07(Tourer), 2001 KX65(LOL bike) Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
....... Sure. |
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 02:34 PM | #18 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
|
Don't be Telly!
__________________________________________________
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 02:35 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300 Posts: A lot.
|
i also do the hose trick, it seems to work well.
costs $1.
__________________________________________________
Ethioknight Memorial Fund- Sticker sale http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111700 |
|
December 6th, 2012, 05:51 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Matt
Location: San Diego, CA
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Triumph Bonneville; 2008 Ninja 250r (trackbike) Posts: 748
|
There are so many tricks to effective bleeding where you dont have to spend an arm and a leg.
I have really bad luck with speed bleaders actually causing more harm than good where I had to go back to the regular bleed nipples and use teflon tape. The threads on the speedbleeders wore out my caliper threads...and I am not the only one that suffered from the same problem If you do not want to spend money on a mityvac and get the same result, you get a long piece of clear tubing. Insert on end into the bleed nipple and plug the other end with your thumb. Crack open the bleed screw just a hair and pump your brakes. When you want to release the fluid built into the tube, close off the bleed screw and dump the brake fluid into a container. Do this until air bubble out. Same effect as a speedbleeder. A really fancy one involves a jar, vacuum cleaner. I have used this method too and works really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgpY_oGINU8 I will also lightly tap the lines, resevoir, and caliper to try and get more air bubbles out and bleed out. Also Jonathon, it wouldn't surprise me if you need to rebuild your master cylinder and calipers. Sofia had the same problem and as soon as she replaced the seals for her calipers and Master Cylinder and properly filled up and bled her brakes were so powerful she brakes with only 1 finger
__________________________________________________
*CVMA #312*SoCal Trackdays*BigHeadz Racing*Motion Pro*Factory Effex*Leatt Brace* Racetech *Bell * Woodcraft CFM*Vortex*Hotbodies*Surface Sun Systems*Braking*LiveWire Energy*Freegun Underwear |
|
December 6th, 2012, 05:56 PM | #21 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
mityvac pumps can be had for around 25$ at HF, i have two and it is good for the main portion of bleeding but when you are trying to get the last little bit of air, i can never get a good enough seal on the tube when there is vacuum. i have tried using speed bleeders also... i'll stick with my 50cent tube filled with brake fluid.
__________________________________________________
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 05:58 PM | #22 | |
CVMA/AFM #72
Name: Tiffani
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r (Racebike), 2015 FZ-07(Tourer), 2001 KX65(LOL bike) Posts: A lot.
|
I've never had a problem. You guys must be doing it wrong More importantly though
Quote:
|
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 05:59 PM | #23 | |
CVMA/AFM #72
Name: Tiffani
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r (Racebike), 2015 FZ-07(Tourer), 2001 KX65(LOL bike) Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
|
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 06:07 PM | #24 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Matt
Location: San Diego, CA
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Triumph Bonneville; 2008 Ninja 250r (trackbike) Posts: 748
|
Quote:
It may be ghetto, but it sure as hell is effective. I had a really stubborn air bubble in my D675. Once I did the vacuum technique it got it out. It worked well because it was constant suction and not suction-pause-suction-pause like you would get with a Mityvac. For every pause moment if gives the air bubble to travel
__________________________________________________
*CVMA #312*SoCal Trackdays*BigHeadz Racing*Motion Pro*Factory Effex*Leatt Brace* Racetech *Bell * Woodcraft CFM*Vortex*Hotbodies*Surface Sun Systems*Braking*LiveWire Energy*Freegun Underwear |
|
|
December 6th, 2012, 07:37 PM | #25 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
|
Pretty sure this is the method Shawn Pen uses but not for his brakes.
__________________________________________________
|
|
December 7th, 2012, 01:01 AM | #26 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
I think hf actually sells mityvac brand vacuum tools.
Mine are from hf and are mityvac. Also the website shows mityvacs Also what do you mean suction pause suction? The point of the mityvac is you build up vacuum then it sits there pulling the entire time... No need to keep pumping unless you are leaking massive air in which case... Well... I mean...
__________________________________________________
|
|
December 11th, 2012, 12:44 PM | #27 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
So inbetween all the other mods I've hand my hands full with I still trying for this magical better front brakes things I started. So now as far as the rotor is conserned I'm going to drill out the buttons of an OEM 320mm R-1 rotor I have, make my own custom inner aluminum carrier out of 7075Alum and use brembo full floating buttons to piece it back together. Still trying to get my hands on the 99-01 R-6 caliper so I can start making the extention braket.
|
|
December 19th, 2012, 08:58 PM | #28 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
currently if got the R-6 wheel and rotor on the bike with the stock caliper and as to be expected with 10mm of extra leverage it has a bit more power but it's minor in my opinion. still waiting on the 320 R-1 rotor and the Old school R-6 caliper. But after waiting so long im starting to lean back over to using on Radial mounted calipers with a more complex but cooler looking payoff like this.
|
|
December 20th, 2012, 05:22 AM | #29 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
|
^^ could be the best retro-fit job I have seen. Very nicely done bracket and mounting - would be a good one to emulate.
|
|
December 26th, 2012, 07:08 PM | #30 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
So I finally got the R-1 rotor I've been waiting for so I swapped the 310mm R-6 rotor for the 320mm R-1 rotor. I used a sharpie marker and colored in the rotor surface then rode home. The pads wore off the sharpie up till about 2mm form the outer edge so my bracket came out perfect and the kit is complete. The brakes have more power and the feel is way more solid. I still need to cut away the extra bulk on my caliper adapter bracket but for now it works fine.
I still want to test a brembo 15RCS master cylinder with the new system so I'm looking for one of those right now and I've order the brembo full free floating buttons for the rotor as well. When I drill out the original buttons and pull the two pieces apart I may do a little machining to the rotor carrier to personalize it a bit as well as make it lighter. So far this mod have had good results and I'm satisfied but with a few more tweaks its only going to get better. |
|
December 26th, 2012, 07:31 PM | #31 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300 Posts: A lot.
|
Are you currently using an r6 master cylinder?
__________________________________________________
Ethioknight Memorial Fund- Sticker sale http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111700 |
|
December 26th, 2012, 07:58 PM | #32 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
So at first I was using this because I had it lying around and figured why not. Well it turns out this is the 19mm piston x 20mm offset Mac daddy of Brembo masters that only work with the biggest six piston dual calipers so my single four piston was just to small and the leverage was lost so it was solid but to hard to pull.
Now I have on a Yamaha R-6 or R-1 I'm not really sure but it is off a 2006 bike. It's the OEM master made by brembo with an unknown piston size. I figure it has to be smaller then the other brembo so I can gain back some leverage and get a good solid bit with the pads. So it does work a lot better but I still think it could be even better with a 15mm piston. I can't praise brembo enough for tapping a bleed screw on ever one of their Masters, it makes the job of bleeding brakes so easy. |
|
December 27th, 2012, 01:59 AM | #33 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Brad
Location: Sydney
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r 2010 SE Posts: 573
|
"Speed Bleeders" are the best 7 bucks you will ever spend. Period. No more sloppy lever.
|
|
December 27th, 2012, 06:14 AM | #34 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
Speed bleeders are one of those things meant to be dummy proof, if you know what your doing then you don't really need them. $7 spent on a banjo with a built in bleeder nipple to use on your master cylinder line connection would be better spent.
But if you lack experience bleeding brakes then I highly recommend the speed Bleeders. I think you can swap out the included bleeder on the special banjo bleeder for a speed bleeder for the best of both worlds. |
|
January 18th, 2013, 04:11 PM | #35 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
So I've had the complete braking system on the bike for about a week now but I haven't been riding that much this week so the few times that I did i was taking it easy and bedding in the new rotor and pads. I the way home just now I decided to give the brakes a good squeeze and holly **** the rear wheel came right up This exactly what I was looking for with this mod so I'm immeasurably happy with the results
It's really going to suck when I swap back to the OEM stuff to go race but hell that's only 1% of the time |
|
January 18th, 2013, 05:33 PM | #36 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Brad
Location: Sydney
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r 2010 SE Posts: 573
|
Speed Bleeders aren't just for people who dont know what they are doing. They speed the process up by 10 times. Take me less than 1 min to bleed an entire bottle of brake fluid (500ml) through my brakes.. Im betting for you at least 10 min.
Also, after installing my stainless steel lines I must of bleed the brake for a week straight, everyday. Went through 3 bottles of fluid trying to get one last bit of air that was making my lever sloppy as tiny bit sloppy. Not to mention I tried every trick in the book for removing that last bastard bubble. Tying the lever back over night, bleeding from the banjo bolt. Nothing worked. Speed bleeders made my brakes better than they were from the factory brand spanking new. My rear brake lever must a 1cm of pull before it goes to full lock. |
|
January 18th, 2013, 05:44 PM | #37 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
Quote:
|
|
|
January 18th, 2013, 07:13 PM | #38 |
Board Member
Name: ...
Location: WI
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.
|
how is the brake line holding up in the front? it looks like it comes out straight but a 90 deg would be more suiting?
|
|
January 18th, 2013, 07:20 PM | #39 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
Your right about the line but the problem isn't the type of fitting but angle, I had to twist the line 90degs to get it to work. I have a new line coming in on Tuesday then ill post more pics. I thought 90 at first then 45 but when you turn the bars right the bodywork gets in the way so I stayed with a 20deg. The 20 should work fine since ill be able to spin the fitting and remove any twist in the line.
|
|
January 18th, 2013, 10:03 PM | #40 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Brad
Location: Sydney
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r 2010 SE Posts: 573
|
You can install a new line without adding much air? Sorry to be a skeptic but that sounds like bull. Your gonna have to explain that one. My first question, what about the air in the line.
For me speedbleeders are still the best 15 bucks I have spent on the bike out of over 5000. When you bleed your brakes after every race they are invaluable. |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Want radial brakes for your ninja? | psych0hans | General Motorcycling Discussion | 6 | January 20th, 2015 09:09 AM |
how to change brakes on 1996 ninja 250? | mr.jake | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 6 | February 21st, 2011 12:52 PM |
|
|