Ecotrons Install Thread

[n4mwd]

I haven't made any changes to the map. Its stock with the exception that Matt sent me a special one that gave it more gas during startup because of my starting problems.

Its pretty cold here right now and I haven't noticed it running hot any more than usual. I don't know exactly what "lean" smells like, but there is no gas smell like the carbs have.

Don't you also have a premium exhaust? If so, it will still be different from mine even with the airbox.

[choneofakind]

Lean burns your nostrils and smells nothing like gas. You'll know it when you feel it.

The rich maps will all apply to all bikes as long as they have had time in learning mode. By learning, your bike decides what it needs to get "1", then extrapolates to supply other AFR's. So while I might have a different power band because of my intake/exhaust, the map I use should still work just fine on on your bike because you bike has learned what it needs for a value of "1" and can then apply the ratios to get the same desired AFR as my bike.

So anyhow, have you had the chance to test your top end with the supplied rich map and compare it to the eco mode?

[lolibater]

I went out yesterday and did a 0 to max speed run on both Eco and Rich.

You can definitely feel the difference, especially in the top end. The smoothness of Rich mode is still the major draw for me.

[choneofakind]

Update for me:

I bought a 1/4" T-fitting off ebay so I can replace the Y-shaped fitting that makes funny angles with the fuel lines.

I bought two Motion Pro 1/4" inline dual cut off's so I can remove the tank for service.

I bought a 10-piece set of 1/4" EFI clamps. I will use those on high pressure connections, and use new worm clamps on all non-pressurized connections.

I bougth three 90 degree 1/4" barbed elbows so I can get better angles on my fuel pump connections.

I will get about 6' of 1/4" fuel line that's approved for at least 40 psi and replace all my hose.

I will also re-install the air box/tidy up the wiring harness. I don't like the extra noise of the pod filter and the more I read, the more I'm sold on the air box. I will be selling the pod filter/crank breather on here if anyone's interested.

n4mwd: I will make sure that my pump is installed at enough of an angle so the bubble line is still elevated when it's on the side-stand. I like having the output facing the right side because it's very convenient for my install.

Overall, I think this will be a much cleaner looking install that I should have done in the first place.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I bought a 1/4" T-fitting off ebay so I can replace the Y-shaped fitting that makes funny angles with the fuel lines.

Most local hardware stores carry 1/4" brass fittings. They run about $5 each, but its still usually cheaper than paying $10 each for shipping.

I bought a 10-piece set of 1/4" EFI clamps. I will use those on high pressure connections,

That's good to hear.

and use new worm clamps on all non-pressurized connections.

They will work OK if the connector has barbs, but not so well for the barbless fuel pump ports. But for barbed low pressure connections, all you need is the spring fuel hose clamps (hardware store and they come in different sizes).

Just sayin, a pro wouldn't use water pipe clamps on a fuel system.

I will get about 6' of 1/4" fuel line that's approved for at least 40 psi and replace all my hose.

You can buy 1/4" fuel injection hose at most auto parts stores. Try to get alcohol resistant stuff. I think all states are at 10% now and some states are already selling 15%.

I can't imagine you needing more than a foot or two.

For the bubbler and intake ports on the fuel pump, I had the best luck with 3/16" plain black rubber fuel hose. I got that at my local hardware store. You can also use 6mm fuel hose if you can find it. Its not that common in the US. The 3/16" hose will stretch over the 1/4" barbs.

[lolibater]

This might be the motivation I need to do all this stuff too

Are you planning to do this in the warm weather, or ASAP?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Most local hardware stores carry 1/4" brass fittings. They run about $5 each, but its still usually cheaper than paying $10 each for shipping.

I got all my brass fittings for and average of about $5.50 per, including shipping. I made sure I could get them cheap before I ordered online.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Just sayin, a pro wouldn't use water pipe clamps on a fuel system.

Hey now, hold the phone. I'm planning on using the EFI clamps on all three ports on the pumps because of the lack of barbs. The rest will be fine with basic clamps. I'll look for spring-type clamps, but I'll just get worm clamps if I can't find spring-type fuel clamps.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I can't imagine you needing more than a foot or two.
...

For the bubbler and intake ports on the fuel pump, I had the best luck with 3/16" plain black rubber fuel hose. I got that at my local hardware store. You can also use 6mm fuel hose if you can find it. Its not that common in the US. The 3/16" hose will stretch over the 1/4" barbs.

I'll keep that in mind if I have issue with the 1/4" line. Maybe I'll just pick up 2' of 3/16 while I'm at it. I'm getting extra because I always end up using hose for other things. I still need to drain my tank and I was planning on using the long piece of hose for siphoning the tank. It's like $2.00 a foot. No biggie.

Originally Posted by lolibater

This might be the motivation I need to do all this stuff too

Are you planning to do this in the warm weather, or ASAP?

I'm going to do it over Easter break, come hell or high water. I wasn't able to do any work on it over spring break because my dad made a mess in the garage and finally got around to cleaning it up the day I was leaving. so I'm going to do it all when I'm home for easter.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'll look for spring-type clamps,

Here is a guy on ebay selling a kit of 50 for $18 delivered. But like I said, the local hardware store will have them too and you just have to buy what you need. They come in different sizes and the better ones are color coded. If buying at the hardware store, maybe take a tiny cutting of hose to try them on first so you get the right ones.

I'll keep that in mind if I have issue with the 1/4" line.

Problems are likely given that the pump ports are 6mm. (1/4" = 6.35mm -> close but not close enough.) Just remember that if it leaks, you get to do it all over again.

[choneofakind]

I'm not going to buy 50 of assorted size when I can just buy 10 of the size I need at a hardware store.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Problems are likely given that the pump ports are 6mm. (1/4" = 6.35mm -> close but not close enough.) Just remember that if it leaks, you get to do it all over again.

Thanks dad...

Did you also read the next sentance where I said I'd probably pick up some 3/16" just to be safe?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Thanks dad...

You're welcome son.

When are you planning on cleaning your room anyway?

[choneofakind]

That's already clean.

I'll just get some 3/16" hose as well from the brass elbows to the the pump inlet and bubble output. I'll only need a foot.

I'll look for spring-style clamps once I have hose and can play with that in the store to make sure it fits.

I can't wait to get my new procal file updates from Matt loaded up, install my air box, and get to testing out my ignition map and rich map with the air box. I'm really hoping the clean/cool air from the box makes a difference. I know at least my ears will thank me. I only have a week till I'm home for easter. I'll have to work fast, but I can get it done

[choneofakind]

@n4mwd,

I'm getting my parts all together. I just need fuel line and spring-type clamps. Both will wait until this weekend when I'm home and can play with them in person to make sure I get the right size. Thanks for pics of you setup and helping me get my sh!t together on mine. (and for teasing me a little along the way )

[loganlexow]

Can anyone tell me what cables people are using on the newgen ninja's? Lil' Red and I installed her kit on her bike but only having the pull cable makes me a bit nervous. I couldn't figure out a way to re-route the cables to accommodate both cables and I am tired of searching this thread lol.

Sorry to intrude during the updates. Carry on.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by loganlexow

Can anyone tell me what cables people are using on the newgen ninja's? Lil' Red and I installed her kit on her bike but only having the pull cable makes me a bit nervous. I couldn't figure out a way to re-route the cables to accommodate both cables and I am tired of searching this thread lol.

Sorry to intrude during the updates. Carry on.

for my pregen couldnt get the decel to work and even tried a newgen cable. It is very tight. Hope someone can chime in to help. I know not having it does seem weird but I havent gotten my throttle stuck or anything and I have been using the kit for a long time now.

[loganlexow]

I know it's doable, but as a previous bike wrench by trade I just don't feel comfortable with it. Hopefully someone can help out.

[n4mwd]

I use the newgen cables on my pregen with no problems. The nuts have to be adjusted in their extremes, but they do work.

I didn't realize that the newgen cables were coming up short on the newgen as well. If you can't get it to work, then there is a theory that the Ninja 300 decel cable will work, but I have no proof of that. You can go custom at motion pro for about $35, but the dealer only charges $25 for a 300 cable.

Again, the 300 cable is just speculation, but I'm hoping someone will give it a try and let us know.

What wont work are 650 cables. The ends don't have the right fittings on them and the tails are too long.

Let us know what you finally figure out.

[choneofakind]

How much too short is it? I use lowered handlebars on my pregen, and both my stock pregen cables hook up the way they're supposed to, without any issue from lock to lock. Just something to consider if you've already thought about doing clip-ons.
@EMSRacer07, you know you want lowered risers and rearsets.

[loganlexow]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I use the newgen cables on my pregen with no problems. The nuts have to be adjusted in their extremes, but they do work.

I didn't realize that the newgen cables were coming up short on the newgen as well. If you can't get it to work, then there is a theory that the Ninja 300 decel cable will work, but I have no proof of that. You can go custom at motion pro for about $35, but the dealer only charges $25 for a 300 cable.

Again, the 300 cable is just speculation, but I'm hoping someone will give it a try and let us know.

What wont work are 650 cables. The ends don't have the right fittings on them and the tails are too long.

Let us know what you finally figure out.

I've thought about trying the 300 cables but I don't want to end up with a cable that won't work and I can't return.

[loganlexow]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

How much too short is it? I use lowered handlebars on my pregen, and both my stock pregen cables hook up the way they're supposed to, without any issue from lock to lock. Just something to consider if you've already thought about doing clip-ons.

If it were my bike it would have clip ons, along with a while host of other goodies too. Unfortunately, Lil Red doesn't want them yet.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

How much too short is it? I use lowered handlebars on my pregen, and both my stock pregen cables hook up the way they're supposed to, without any issue from lock to lock. Just something to consider if you've already thought about doing clip-ons.
@EMSRacer07, you know you want lowered risers and rearsets.

well I could get them to fit now, both cables. I got woodcraft lowered risers and xrace rearsets here recently bc of my accident.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

I got woodcraft lowered risers

Do IIITTTTT! It will work fine for you.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Do IIITTTTT! It will work fine for you.

idk if I want to take it apart again to do the decel cable. Got the lowered risers on a few weeks ago along with the rearsets. Nice sporty feel with the efi kit

[lolibater]

Yeah I'll probably be ordering some custom cables from MP now that I have a jerb again

Going to use the new gen specs, with the modifications that @n4mwd laid out:

newgen plus 2" in sheath length.
With decel cable tail 1 cm shorter.

This morning I tried the fuel decel cutoff at idle (1500) and "too high to activate" (15000). At 1500, the bike starts and instantly dies. At 15000, the revs hang at whatever rpm you last revved to. I put it back to 2k, and just decided to live with the hunting idle every now and then.

[choneofakind]

Okay, so I got all my stuff sorted out.

I got the air box installed. Darn thing makes the wiring 10x harder than it needs to be. The hoses work just fine with the 'spagetti method', you just have to be creative to use that tiny space in front of the air box.

I also updated to the newest s19 file and newest procal. I had some trouble with it. Byron and I thought I had an older ecu, but I don't. Turns out that when I installed procal the first time, it didn't do it right. Now it's fine and everything is working normally. Thank goodness.

I can't wait to ride and test the new s19 file and my newest cal files. I didn't get a chance to start it because I was working out the updates and I was working/riding a bicycle all weekend. No biggie.

Also, PSA for everyone using the blue fuel line: get rid of it. That stuff turns to a brick after a few months. It's a PITA and it cracks/turns completely hard. Just use normal rubber fuel line that's good for 50 psi.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Also, PSA for everyone using the blue fuel line: get rid of it. That stuff turns to a brick after a few months. It's a PITA and it cracks/turns completely hard. Just use normal rubber fuel line that's good for 50 psi.

i'm guessing the stuff just does not like repeated heat cycles?

[choneofakind]

That's my guess too. It was the worst on the portion of the line that was physically being held by the clamp.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lgk

i'm guessing the stuff just does not like repeated heat cycles?

Or alcohol. How much booze do they put in the gas up there in OH? Down here its 10%, but I heard its 15% in some parts of the country.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Or alcohol. How much booze do they put in the gas up there in OH? Down here its 10%, but I heard its 15% in some parts of the country.

true, the stuff destroyed my weed whackers fuel lines...

[choneofakind]

No idea. But I didn't use any of it this time around. I only used thick rubber fuel line that's rated for 50 PSI.

Question: is it possible to find a 1/4" brass elbow that makes a complete u-bend with a diameter of about 1"? I could use about 2 of those to clean up some of my install instead of either bending hose or using two 90 degree elbows.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

No idea. But I didn't use any of it this time around. I only used thick rubber fuel line that's rated for 50 PSI.

Question: is it possible to find a 1/4" brass elbow that makes a complete u-bend with a diameter of about 1"? I could use about 2 of those to clean up some of my install instead of either bending hose or using two 90 degree elbows.

Two brass elbows. I thought about using 1/4" OD copper tubing. You should be able to make a 1" diameter bend without kinking using the water freeze method. But copper tubing won't have barbs so it would work for low pressure stuff only and require the EFI clamps to keep it tight enough. I'm not sure if they make a glue-on or solder-on barb for copper tubing, but it would be nice.

[n4mwd]

Does anybody know if there is a list of variables and their definitions for the EFI controller somewhere?

[lgk]

should be in the efi tuning guide

[choneofakind]

I'll keep that in mind with the brass tubing. I have spare EFI clamps, and the only places I'd use them is the low pressure side.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Does anybody know if there is a list of variables and their definitions for the EFI controller somewhere?

In ProCAL, click on 'Variables' in the upper menu list. Mouse over 'Display Type' and click on 'List'. To see a description of what each variable is, just mouse over the entry in the 'Selected Variables' table. A short description will pop up.

Note: I like ProCAL v7.1.9.3 much better than v7.0. It hasn't crashed on me yet, and everything seems much smoother.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'll keep that in mind with the brass tubing. I have spare EFI clamps, and the only places I'd use them is the low pressure side.



In ProCAL, click on 'Variables' in the upper menu list. Mouse over 'Display Type' and click on 'List'. Then go back to the 'Variables' drop down menu and click 'Show oscilloscope'. This will bring up a list of variables for you and an oscilloscope. Close the oscilloscope. To see a description of what each variable is, just mouse over the entry in the 'Selected Variables' table. A short description will pop up.

Note: I like ProCAL v7.1.9.3 much better than v7.0. It hasn't crashed on me yet, and everything seems much smoother.

aww i only have procal v7.1.7 jk. Glad you got it working.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

Glad you got it working.

Dude thanks for helping me out!! I hate software. I'm going to keep it the way it is, I don't care how many more updates come out for it.

Also, I finally figured out how to use 7-zip took long enough.


Now I just have to wait until I'm home next to ride it. Modded air box lid + Muzzy rocked with carbs. I want to see the direct comparison with the EFI setup. At least it will be quieter than the pod filter.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Dude thanks for helping me out!! I hate software. I'm going to keep it the way it is, I don't care how many more updates come out for it.

Also, I finally figured out how to use 7-zip took long enough.


Now I just have to wait until I'm home next to ride it. Modded air box lid + Muzzy rocked with carbs. I want to see the direct comparison with the EFI setup. At least it will be quieter than the pod filter.

Thats good. I dont think I could use the 7-zip but good u figured it out. And really the pods dont bug me at all. They compliment my muzzy and danmoto exhaust. Think it sounds good. But thats me :P. Want to turbo the bike though. Wish I had more time and i would get the one from ecotrons site.

[choneofakind]

Yeah it sounded fantastic. It was just too loud for my taste. I don't want the whole world knowing I'm on the gas.

Plus I know how well I did with this setup and nicely tuned carbs.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Yeah it sounded fantastic. It was just too loud for my taste. I don't want the whole world knowing I'm on the gas.

Plus I know how well I did with this setup and nicely tuned carbs.

Thats true. Like I told you I plan on remaking the air box to have a better ram air system. Box is easy to make its going to be the piping for the ram air

[choneofakind]

Yeah, I won't be touching the air box again. It's much harder to get back in when there's an extra EFI wiring harness.

Once I get done with tuning the EFI as it is now, I'm done with large mods on the bike. I just want to ride it. I've put in my time in the garage with greasy hands making it what it is now.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Yeah, I won't be touching the air box again. It's much harder to get back in when there's an extra EFI wiring harness.

Once I get done with tuning the EFI as it is now, I'm done with large mods on the bike. I just want to ride it. I've put in my time in the garage with greasy hands making it what it is now.

this is true. Hate not having it to actually ride. Trying to postpone redoing the paint job bc i just want to ride it. Its not needed.