Support my petition for more caution signs

[mintyfox]

California, amongst many other states, should create signs to remind drivers that they share the road with motorists. It is easier to prevent needless, reoccurring accidents if people are reminded of the safety steps they need to do daily. Just because a motorcycle isn't easy to see, doesn't mean it isn't there. Many deaths and serious injuries are caused by drivers who didn't take their time to look over their shoulder before turning. A motorists has the same rights a driver does on the road, lets make it look more evident!

Help us by signing my petition
http://www.change.org/petitions/cali...-for-motorists

[mintyfox]

Help me out with my petition guys!

California, amongst many other states, should create signs to remind drivers that they share the road with motorists. It is easier to prevent needless, reoccurring accidents if people are reminded of the safety steps they need to do daily. Just because a motorcycle isn't easy to see, doesn't mean it isn't there. Many deaths and serious injuries are caused by drivers who didn't take their time to look over their shoulder before turning. A motorists has the same rights a driver does on the road, lets make it look more evident!


http://www.change.org/petitions/cali...-for-motorists

[mintyfox]

California, amongst many other states, should create signs to remind drivers that they share the road with motorists. It is easier to prevent needless, reoccurring accidents if people are reminded of the safety steps they need to do daily. Just because a motorcycle isn't easy to see, doesn't mean it isn't there. Many deaths and serious injuries are caused by drivers who didn't take their time to look over their shoulder before turning. A motorists has the same rights a driver does on the road, lets make it look more evident!



http://www.change.org/petitions/cali...-for-motorists

[broilmebk]

No need to double post: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134701
Or even triple post: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...postcount=1312

Aren't there already signs that say to look twice for motorcyclists?

[alex.s]

my drive to work has about 10 large signs over the free way that by default read "save a life- look twice for motorcyclists" (unless there is an accident- in which case the signs give details about the accident)


seems like enough signs to me.

[mintyfox]

while there are signs that help us out, there isn't enough.

[alex.s]

also, hi judith.

[mintyfox]

I live in Moreno Valley, either I don't go out as much to see them or there aren't enough around me. We need to make these signs common signs, especially now that we are hitting the summer.

[red5]

Good luck. I don't think more/better signs will make the roads any safer tho.

[mintyfox]

Oh, you're Alex Alex. Hi

[Trailerboy531]

Just read your petition... Are you aware that a "motorist" is one who operates a motor vehicle. You are essentially asking for car drivers to look out for car drivers.

Good job

[Alex]

/threads merged

Good luck!

[mintyfox]

thank you for that Max I'll change it

[xSean13]

Signs won't do much good. People learn bad habits early in their driving (e.g. not shoulder-checking) or they just don't care. The focus needs to be on better (perhaps even repetitive once every X years) driver testing/training. If people aren't cognizant enough to notice motorcycles, they probably won't even pay attention to the signs.

[broilmebk]

Originally Posted by xSean13

Signs won't do much good. People learn bad habits early in their driving (e.g. not shoulder-checking) or they just don't care. The focus needs to be on better (perhaps even repetitive once every X years) driver testing/training. If people aren't cognizant enough to notice motorcycles, they probably won't even pay attention to the signs.

[dave42]

I'd rather have the tax money spent for cops to actually crack down on cellphone use, which is already illegal here, than to put up more signs.

[Jiggles]

First off, change.org petitions have about a 99.99% failure rate (I think there might have been one that was successful or maybe I dreamed it). Second, signs don't do jack ****. People don't read signs and even if they do, they forget it 2 seconds after reading it. Have you ever checked the time only to realize 5 seconds later that you forgot what time it was? I see these motorcycle signs on the way to work, its out of my mind 5 seconds after I read it.

A better approach would be rider education. Be aware and keep yourself out of dangerous situations.

[sLick415]

Dmv test needs to be tougher.

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

A better approach would be rider education. Be aware and keep yourself out of dangerous situations.

I agree with Jiggles. Let's make a petition for stricter licensing requirements and better rider education... and watch it get completely blown away by all the angry squids.

[alex.s]

i think 9/10 times if not more, the motorcyclist is responsible for the crash (even if someone else broke a rule or whatever. you should be able to keep yourself safe without depending on other vehicles)

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i think 9/10 times if not more, the motorcyclist is responsible for the crash (even if someone else broke a rule or whatever. you should be able to keep yourself safe without depending on other vehicles)

So despite someone else pulling out in front of a motorcycle, rear ending a motorcycle and/or breaking other laws, you still think it's the motorcyclist's fault? Let's eliminate single rider accidents because those are most likely 99.9% of the time rider error, I'm talking only collisions with other vehicles that would be, by law, the other vehicles fault. I think it's unrealistic to assume that we are all at a perfect level of awareness while riding and should be able to avoid 9/10 accidents.

[Daks]

Studies have actually shown that the more signage there is, the less attentive drivers are (because they're reading and thinking about all these signs).

I'd rather drivers really be looking than just looking at signs telling them to look for us.

[outasight20]

Uh yeah, signs won't do jack ****. I agree spend the money on rider education. It doesn't matter if the car is at fault or the bike is at fault, the motorcyclist can avoid nearly every collision if properly trained.

[ajcadoo]

Signs won't do much. But recently, I saw the electronic signs on the freeways read Look Twice for Motorcycles.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

So despite someone else pulling out in front of a motorcycle, rear ending a motorcycle and/or breaking other laws, you still think it's the motorcyclist's fault?

yes.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

So despite someone else pulling out in front of a motorcycle, rear ending a motorcycle and/or breaking other laws, you still think it's the motorcyclist's fault? Let's eliminate single rider accidents because those are most likely 99.9% of the time rider error, I'm talking only collisions with other vehicles that would be, by law, the other vehicles fault. I think it's unrealistic to assume that we are all at a perfect level of awareness while riding and should be able to avoid 9/10 accidents.

@gfloyd has a great post around here somewhere. The majority of accidents can be avoided by a vigilant rider. Fault or no...and at the end of the day if your bike is wrecked and you are walking home it doesn't matter who's at fault. If you can avoid an accident by being alert you are better off.

[Apex]

The best way to teach an old dog new tricks is to simply make the punishment more harsh. Don't make licenses as easy to get. Make fines higher for offenses. If you get caught doing 15mph over the limit, okay, no big deal. If this is the 20th time you've got caught doing that, then you need a higher punishment because obviously you have not learned from the previous 19 offenses.

I have this same issue as a bicyclist. Drivers often cut it close to me because "I am in their way". Drivers feel that it is THEIR road, and anything that isn't a car is getting in their way. Simple as that. They think if it isn't a car, then it isn't worth paying attention to because the car will win.

Full time cagers tend to be rather...uneducated it seems.

[psych0hans]

p.s. sorry to rain down on your parade, but trust me when I say this, people will ignore the signs just as well as they ignore the motorcyclists... Good luck tho

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by alex.s

yes.

I find that extremely ignorant. Being vigilant can go a long way for sure, I've dodged my fair share of retarded inattentive drivers and I hope to avoid as many as I have to to live a long and happy life, but we're all only human and there are some things that can't be avoided. By your logic the same should go for cars, so technically every person not at fault in an accident is actually at fault because they couldn't perfectly avoid somebody else's mistake. That just doesn't make sense.

[sLick415]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

I find that extremely ignorant. Being vigilant can go a long way for sure, I've dodged my fair share of retarded inattentive drivers and I hope to avoid as many as I have to to live a long and happy life, but we're all only human and there are some things that can't be avoided. By your logic the same should go for cars, so technically every person not at fault in an accident is actually at fault because they couldn't perfectly avoid somebody else's mistake. That just doesn't make sense.

No you cant really say the same for cars. Bikes are more agile and have more room to work with than a car. And its our responsibility to put ourself in a position in which we can avoid such hazards. Sure, there are times where an accident can't be avoided. But the reality of it is, 9/10 times, you could have done something differently to avoid it.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

I find that extremely ignorant. Being vigilant can go a long way for sure, I've dodged my fair share of retarded inattentive drivers and I hope to avoid as many as I have to to live a long and happy life, but we're all only human and there are some things that can't be avoided. By your logic the same should go for cars, so technically every person not at fault in an accident is actually at fault because they couldn't perfectly avoid somebody else's mistake. That just doesn't make sense.

black ice i could say is kinda hard to pin on the rider... its pretty hard to see sometimes and its hard not to slide through ice. and hitting wildlife... that can be hard. i wouldn't exactly say thats the riders fault as much a lot of the time.. little bastards aim for the light. traffic encounters with other vehicles... riders fault. single vehicle crash... riders fault. there are always things you could have done to avoid any accident. things that you failed to do. yes, you are only human. that doesn't mean you aren't the one who put yourself in the situation where you got in an accident. just because you have an explanation for your incompetence (being human) doesn't excuse it all together. the ninja 250, and most sport bikes are extremely capable. i've been forced to do some pretty extreme maneuvers by cars doing stupid things. but i did them and i didn't crash.

you crash your bike, its your fault.

[Alex]

There are a couple threads on that topic here. I agree with the thought process, but it's a matter of terminology. I think "responsibility" works better than "fault", as it more accurately covers all the bases.

If a rider gets in an accident, no matter the circumstances, it's their responsibility. They are the ones that will have to deal with the aftermath, and the responsibility can not be shifted just because they didn't do something stupid. Even if someone or something else was the direct cause of the accident, that determination of fault doesn't really matter much.

Fault matters much more when divvying up financial penalties to the different parties after an accident. Financial penalties aren't the risk to worry about when riding a motorcycle, the consequences of an accident can be much more dire.

[CycleCam303]

I totally agree with both Alex and Alex. Both of them have been riding in the street much longer than I have but to me 90% of motorcycle accidents involve the rider running out of talent in one way or another. I'm sure Alex saw the recent barf group ride incident. Could've been prevented if the rider was paying attention. Look at all of the crash threads on this site. We discuss what the rider could've done differently. Most people follow a same pattern and set guidelines while driving. Out of the box thinking can keep the rider out of those situations. Did Jiggs get screwed when the car turned in front of him, sure, could be have prevented it from becoming a situation, sure.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

I totally agree with both Alex and Alex. Both of them have been riding in the street much longer than I have but to me 90% of motorcycle accidents involve the rider running out of talent in one way or another.

I agree with Alex too, but I don't know if "running out of talent" is necessarily the best explanation for crashes. Sight distance is key. Looking as far ahead as possible while still keeping your peripheral vision alert (avoiding tunnel vision, basically), being ready for everyone on the road to not see you, and having a reaction plan can get us out of 9/10 of situations. So can practicing emergency techniques on occasion. I am due to take my own advice there. It's been a while.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

I think it's unrealistic to assume that we are all at a perfect level of awareness while riding and should be able to avoid 9/10 accidents.

Then maybe you shouldn't be riding.

[KawiKid860]

I'm in agreement that being aware can go extremely far in saving your ass from a stupid cager, I know this from firsthand experience just like many on this site, but I don't think a rider should have to accept the fault for "running out of talent" in a situation that somebody else's incompetence put them in.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by alex.s

my drive to work has about 10 large signs over the free way that by default read "save a life- look twice for motorcyclists" (unless there is an accident- in which case the signs give details about the accident)


seems like enough signs to me.

Yep. These are common here as well. Pretty much any electronic sign that that doesn't have anything to say about current traffic conditions and such says that as the default message. They also display it in rotation with other messages when they do have something else to say.

[Trailerboy531]

Really Jet?

[cbinker]

just saw this one, but the cynic in me says "why post more distractions for drivers?"

[capt_bugaloo]

I see all kinds of warning labels plastered on cigarette packs that smoking can kill you, yet smokers ignore the signs and keep smoking anyhow.

Most drivers know that they should be careful. How is putting up a bunch more warning signs going to do any good?

As one post above noted, the only time _everyone_ drives carefully is when there's a cop car in sight.