Chain and Brake Pads - Opinions

[SafetyPaws]

52xx Mile maintenance

Hey guys - so to start out I know I either have to clean the chain or replace it. See pics - it is hella rusted - I drive her every day and when it rains at work I can't cover her =/ Also at home she is parked outside covered when it rains when I have to get to work. Let me know what you think, if I have to replace it where can I buy one from / is there different brands one would recommend / maybe one that kan handle elements bit better? Same for maybe the sprockets - I watched @TheDuck video on the DIY - it was fast but I think I can change it out myself - may need to purchase a pitbull stand.

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While I was down there I thought I would inspect my brake pads and rotors - due to what I thought was a squeek like two weeks ago. I noticed that my rear brakes are almost completely worn out. Front looks brand new - but both rotors have some decent indentation. I think I have to replace those as well - as if I were to get new pads they would prematurely deteriorate due to forming to the rotor (correct?). I also watch TheDuck in under 10 min DIY and I can definitely change Pads easy - but then when it comes to the rotors I may have to do more research. I searched the form and found that most used EBC and lots had problems with them - can anyone also recommend a brand for pads / rotors? Also maybe a good DIY for changing rotors as well.

Front Wheel
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Rear Wheel
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It is probably best to replace both front and rear at same time correct or to save a few bucks do front when its needed?

I also thought since I am working in same area to possible change brake lines to the spiegler - but I did not quite understand what the bleeding is / does fully from the DIY stickies. I know I have to do a bit more research on that. Is that probably a good idea to do at the same time?

Also on a side note (he has an RX8 and was going to repaint his calipers Red) - we were going to do mine but then I noticed pads upon inspection)- also since I am working in same area, I wanted to paint my calipers green - friend found Synergy Green Camaro caliper paint and thought I may give it a shot - it's expensive though. Anyone attempt this?

Also have no cage atm so when I do this will have to be probably on an upcoming holiday weekend or over the winter.

[SafetyPaws]

no love this time? =*(

[krolinked]

For Sure New Pads!

As for the chain. Find A Grunge Brush i think its called. The brush to clean the chain. Then get a large can of wd-40 and a hose and spray, scrub, rinse, repeat until that chain is silver colored again. Spray the chain with Bel-ray Super CLean Lube. Its a white colored lube that doesnt fling off and lasts a long time.'


I've restored a worse looking chain and it has been 7500 miles since then and its fine.


So to wrap it up you need:

New Brake Pads,
Bel Ray Super CLean Chain Lube
Grunge Brush.
Water Hose.
WD-40

As far as whether or not to use EBC, I've used ebc HH and theyre good. However I've recently tried out Vesrah Race pads, and they're the BOMB.
IDK how long they will last compared to ebc though.

[krolinked]

I wouldn't put vesrahs on the back though.... I'd put my current front pads on the back, and put new vesrahs onto the front.

[Dark]

That chain is garbage and you should never let it get that bad. The rust particles will destroy the o-rings if they haven't already.

Get a new chain and keep up with cleaning and lubing it. Don't use WD-40, buy actual chain cleaner and lube at your local motorcycle shop.

[SafetyPaws]

Originally Posted by krolinked

For Sure New Pads!

As for the chain. Find A Grunge Brush i think its called. The brush to clean the chain. Then get a large can of wd-40 and a hose and spray, scrub, rinse, repeat until that chain is silver colored again. Spray the chain with Bel-ray Super CLean Lube. Its a white colored lube that doesnt fling off and lasts a long time.'


I've restored a worse looking chain and it has been 7500 miles since then and its fine.


So to wrap it up you need:

New Brake Pads,
Bel Ray Super CLean Chain Lube
Grunge Brush.
Water Hose.
WD-40

As far as whether or not to use EBC, I've used ebc HH and theyre good. However I've recently tried out Vesrah Race pads, and they're the BOMB.
IDK how long they will last compared to ebc though.

I was going to do that and buy a grunge brush, - the WD 40, but i do not think it will work. Same with adding water to it and cause more oxidation.

How about rotors?

Originally Posted by Dark

That chain is garbage and you should never let it get that bad. The rust particles will destroy the o-rings if they haven't already.

Get a new chain and keep up with cleaning and lubing it. Don't use WD-40, buy actual chain cleaner and lube at your local motorcycle shop.

I know I feel terrible for her - I neglected her. Can you recommend a chain / sprockets? Also do I get them from local dealer or online?

[Dark]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

I know I feel terrible for her - I neglected her. Can you recommend a chain / sprockets? Also do I get them from local dealer or online?

You can get them local or online.

I have always ran the higher end DID chains (ERV3) which may be out of your budget. Any model DID, EK, Renthal chain should be fine and colored chains tend to resist rush a bit better due to the coating.

Cheap sprocket replacements would be JT or Sunstar, look for steel since they will last longer than aluminum.

[mgentz]

Did non oring if you're good. Erv3 if you're ok. No bike if you're bad.

Yes to new pads.

[menikmati]

Vesrah FTW.

[SafetyPaws]

Originally Posted by Dark

You can get them local or online.

I have always ran the higher end DID chains (ERV3) which may be out of your budget. Any model DID, EK, Renthal chain should be fine and colored chains tend to resist rush a bit better due to the coating.

Cheap sprocket replacements would be JT or Sunstar, look for steel since they will last longer than aluminum.

I am on a budget - but i have kind of always leaned toward the best or higher quality for my ninjette so i do not mind spending extra money for value (reasonable of course). I am not tracking but just my DD, need something extremely reliable with good performance, anything to recommend on that note?

Also - what is benefit of changing teeth on sprocket, found this in wiki but not to helpful for 08-12 / does not explain anything.

Originally Posted by mgentz

Did non oring if you're good. Erv3 if you're ok. No bike if you're bad.

Yes to new pads.

how do i know if i am good or ok? i understand the bad =]

Originally Posted by menikmati

Vesrah FTW.

Ok so Vesrah pads is by popular vote - any others? Also how about the rotors?


Also would i have to replace the o-rings too, how can i check if they are good? (just if they are torn or ripped?


Appreciate the feedback so far, thanks.

[Dark]

Here are some to point you in the right direction.

$160 - EK chain, pitbull sprockets. http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com...l.bok?no=14120

$229 - DID chain, pitbull sprockets. http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com...l.bok?no=14118

As for gearing, short gearing (smaller sprocket in the front and/or larger in the rear) will accelerate faster but have a slower top speed, you will also see higher rpm while highway cruising. It's the opposite for taller gearing. Folks that commute on the highway usually opt for slightly taller gearing to keep the revs lower while cruising. I would suggest stock gearing if you are fine with the stock gearing you have been using.

[vince_2149]

I just replaced my chain a few days ago. I went with motomummy to get an RK gold chain and some Driven sprockets. Ran me $185 for that combo plus a chain tool since I wanted to do it myself.

https://www.motomummy.com/chain-kits...st-technology/

I couldn't have been happier with the quality of parts. I expect many, many miles out of this kit. I also went with a 15t front sprocket and love it. Can't really tell a difference in acceleration but in cruising RPM there's a noticeable difference.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

52xx Mile maintenance


While I was down there I thought I would inspect my brake pads and rotors - due to what I thought was a squeek like two weeks ago. I noticed that my rear brakes are almost completely worn out. Front looks brand new - but both rotors have some decent indentation. I think I have to replace those as well - as if I were to get new pads they would prematurely deteriorate due to forming to the rotor (correct?). I also watch TheDuck in under 10 min DIY and I can definitely change Pads easy - but then when it comes to the rotors I may have to do more research. I searched the form and found that most used EBC and lots had problems with them - can anyone also recommend a brand for pads / rotors? Also maybe a good DIY for changing rotors as well.

It is probably best to replace both front and rear at same time correct or to save a few bucks do front when its needed?

I also thought since I am working in same area to possible change brake lines to the spiegler - but I did not quite understand what the bleeding is / does fully from the DIY stickies. I know I have to do a bit more research on that. Is that probably a good idea to do at the same time?

The pads have to bed in to give optimal braking, so deforming to the grooves on the rotor is normal, the pads don't go to the edge so there is a section that will be the original width, then a scrubbed in section from pad contact.

I'd just do the rear, replace them with fresh pads (not the ones from the front as someone else suggested) as fresh pads will just have to bed in to the rotor's shape, not wear off the grooves that fit the front before wearing in grooves to fit the back

Service limit on the rotors is 4.5mm thick, measure it at a few points (measure in the notches, you'll have a thicker rim around the edge where the pads don't make contact)

Bleeding the brakes is to remove air bubbles, brake fluid can't be compressed, so it transmits the force from the lever to the caliper. Bubbles can be compressed, so some of the force exerted at the lever goes to compressing the air bubbles rather than moving the piston and applying the brakes. No bubbles = better brakes.

As it's a daily driver I'd fit something like this Scottoiler to lube the chain while its running, I've a DID non O ring chain with 16,000+ miles on it and a ton of adjustment left.

The sprockets look ok, there's no hooking on the teeth, mine's at 26,6xx miles and still has the original steel sprockets in good condition.

[Runeknight95]

WD-40 can be used to clean but not as a lube, it doesn't last that long. Ignore those who say its bad for chains they haven't read the research.
I use maxima chain cleaner because its so easy though, http://www.amazon.com/Maxima-Clean-U...+chain+cleaner or http://www.amazon.com/Maxima-Chain-U...+chain+cleaner
I prefer the dupont chain saver as the lube though, http://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-...nt+chain+saver.
Follow the directions for cleaning with the maxima, yes you do add water to rinse the degreaser off

-buy a grunge brush http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Solutio...eywords=grunge
-buy a chain tool ~50 bucks, and you can do your own chains
-You can change gearing(sprockets) and what not but that's going to decrease your gas mileage, (possible defeating the purpose of your 250?)
-They recommended good chains already, the sprockets may not even need to be changed if you're looking to save money

As for the brakes, your front should of worn before the rear so that's just bad riding.
-replace the ones that are low not both, if you need to save $$
-I love my vesrah on my bikes but they are used for track as well so it may be overkill for you. Im not sure of how long they last compared to galfer or oem's

[SafetyPaws]

Originally Posted by Dark

Here are some to point you in the right direction.

$160 - EK chain, pitbull sprockets. http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com...l.bok?no=14120

$229 - DID chain, pitbull sprockets. http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com...l.bok?no=14118

As for gearing, short gearing (smaller sprocket in the front and/or larger in the rear) will accelerate faster but have a slower top speed, you will also see higher rpm while highway cruising. It's the opposite for taller gearing. Folks that commute on the highway usually opt for slightly taller gearing to keep the revs lower while cruising. I would suggest stock gearing if you are fine with the stock gearing you have been using.

Thanks for the links and gearing explanation, much appreciated. I think i will stick with stock gearing for now.

Originally Posted by vince_2149

I just replaced my chain a few days ago. I went with motomummy to get an RK gold chain and some Driven sprockets. Ran me $185 for that combo plus a chain tool since I wanted to do it myself.

https://www.motomummy.com/chain-kits...st-technology/

I couldn't have been happier with the quality of parts. I expect many, many miles out of this kit. I also went with a 15t front sprocket and love it. Can't really tell a difference in acceleration but in cruising RPM there's a noticeable difference.

thanks for link as well, whats the difference you noticed in the cruising RPM, maybe 45 mph (i think 4500 in 6th) speeds and freeway speeds at 70 mph (im around 9500 in 6th), 80 (10500 in 6th) mph?

Originally Posted by Whiskey

The pads have to bed in to give optimal braking, so deforming to the grooves on the rotor is normal, the pads don't go to the edge so there is a section that will be the original width, then a scrubbed in section from pad contact.

I'd just do the rear, replace them with fresh pads (not the ones from the front as someone else suggested) as fresh pads will just have to bed in to the rotor's shape, not wear off the grooves that fit the front before wearing in grooves to fit the back

Service limit on the rotors is 4mm thick, measure it at a few points (measure in the notches, you'll have a thicker rim around the edge where the pads don't make contact)

Bleeding the brakes is to remove air bubbles, brake fluid can't be compressed, so it transmits the force from the lever to the caliper. Bubbles can be compressed, so some of the force exerted at the lever goes to compressing the air bubbles rather than moving the piston and applying the brakes. No bubbles = better brakes.

As it's a daily driver I'd fit something like this Scottoiler to lube the chain while its running, I've a DID non O ring chain with 16,000+ miles on it and a ton of adjustment left.

The sprockets look ok, there's no hooking on the teeth, mine's at 26,6xx miles and still has the original steel sprockets in good condition.

Thanks for Info as well - i have to find a micrometer or caliper to measure inside. I think I will be fine with stock rotors and sprockets for now.

Originally Posted by Runeknight95

WD-40 can be used to clean but not as a lube, it doesn't last that long. Ignore those who say its bad for chains they haven't read the research.
I use maxima chain cleaner because its so easy though, http://www.amazon.com/Maxima-Clean-U...+chain+cleaner or http://www.amazon.com/Maxima-Chain-U...+chain+cleaner
I prefer the dupont chain saver as the lube though, http://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-...nt+chain+saver.
Follow the directions for cleaning with the maxima, yes you do add water to rinse the degreaser off

-buy a grunge brush http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Solutio...eywords=grunge
-buy a chain tool ~50 bucks, and you can do your own chains
-You can change gearing(sprockets) and what not but that's going to decrease your gas mileage, (possible defeating the purpose of your 250?)
-They recommended good chains already, the sprockets may not even need to be changed if you're looking to save money

As for the brakes, your front should of worn before the rear so that's just bad riding.
-replace the ones that are low not both, if you need to save $$
-I love my vesrah on my bikes but they are used for track as well so it may be overkill for you. Im not sure of how long they last compared to galfer or oem's

Yar, the rear brakes were from my first year of riding and noobing it up. I now predominately use both brakes simultaneously and or occasionally just the front.

Have a link for the chain tool you used?


Thanks all for all the input, this is what I am looking to purchase.
Green EK MVXZ Series 520 Chain - anyone have any experience with the coating on these - will they eventually chip off and look nasty?
Rear brakes, nothing fancy
Green front brake line
Green Rear brake line
Also a better cover instead of the small tarp i am using for when I cannot store her in the garage.

I also plan on getting the grunge chain cleaner tool.

How about brake fluid - or does that matter at all?

[Runeknight95]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

Thanks for the links and gearing explanation, much appreciated. I think i will stick with stock gearing for now.



thanks for link as well, whats the difference you noticed in the cruising RPM, maybe 45 mph (i think 4500 in 6th) speeds and freeway speeds at 70 mph (im around 9500 in 6th), 80 (10500 in 6th) mph?



Thanks for Info as well - i have to find a micrometer or caliper to measure inside. I think I will be fine with stock rotors and sprockets for now.



Yar, the rear brakes were from my first year of riding and noobing it up. I now predominately use both brakes simultaneously and or occasionally just the front.

Have a link for the chain tool you used?


Thanks all for all the input, this is what I am looking to purchase.
Green EK MVXZ Series 520 Chain - anyone have any experience with the coating on these - will they eventually chip off and look nasty?
Rear brakes, nothing fancy
Green front brake line
Green Rear brake line
Also a better cover instead of the small tarp i am using for when I cannot store her in the garage.

I also plan on getting the grunge chain cleaner tool.

How about brake fluid - or does that matter at all?

it was 60 bucks

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

ive done about 4 chains with it no issues
motion pros tool is 7 dollar more, id prolly get that if i could do it over again

brake fluid is every 3-5 years nothing to do with the pad replacement, you may need to take off the resevoir cap to compress the pistons im not sure. (pistons expand and fluid gets lower as the brake pads wear out

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

Thanks for the links and gearing explanation, much appreciated. I think i will stick with stock gearing for now.



thanks for link as well, whats the difference you noticed in the cruising RPM, maybe 45 mph (i think 4500 in 6th) speeds and freeway speeds at 70 mph (im around 9500 in 6th), 80 (10500 in 6th) mph?



Thanks for Info as well - i have to find a micrometer or caliper to measure inside. I think I will be fine with stock rotors and sprockets for now.



Yar, the rear brakes were from my first year of riding and noobing it up. I now predominately use both brakes simultaneously and or occasionally just the front.

Have a link for the chain tool you used?


Thanks all for all the input, this is what I am looking to purchase.
Green EK MVXZ Series 520 Chain - anyone have any experience with the coating on these - will they eventually chip off and look nasty?
Rear brakes, nothing fancy
Green front brake line
Green Rear brake line
Also a better cover instead of the small tarp i am using for when I cannot store her in the garage.

I also plan on getting the grunge chain cleaner tool.

How about brake fluid - or does that matter at all?

Carbone Lorraine are pretty good,

You're changing the lines, you'll have to change the fluid. Any DOT4 should be fine. I'd go with a reputable brand, a small bottle should do both & won't cost much.

[Runeknight95]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Carbone Lorraine are pretty good,

You're changing the lines, you'll have to change the fluid. Any DOT4 should be fine. I'd go with a reputable brand, a small bottle should do both & won't cost much.

he didnt say he was changing the lines?

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Runeknight95

he didnt say he was changing the lines?

Yes he did

Thanks all for all the input, this is what I am looking to purchase.
Green EK MVXZ Series 520 Chain - anyone have any experience with the coating on these - will they eventually chip off and look nasty?
Rear brakes, nothing fancy
Green front brake line
Green Rear brake line
Also a better cover instead of the small tarp i am using for when I cannot store her in the garage.

I also plan on getting the grunge chain cleaner tool.

How about brake fluid - or does that matter at all?

[Runeknight95]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Yes he did

Then hes guna need sum fluid! haha

[SafetyPaws]

thanks for the response / feed back - I will try and get these in the next few days and install em.

[Whiskey]

@SafetyPaws I just noticed in my service manual that the service limit for the rear disc is 4.5mm, not 4 as I had said before (the front is 4)

[SafetyPaws]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

@SafetyPaws I just noticed in my service manual that the service limit for the rear disc is 4.5mm, not 4 as I had said before (the front is 4)

What page is that on, drive chain + brakes is 115-127 for my manual, it mentioned pads mesurements and fluid but not the dics.

[SafetyPaws]

Originally Posted by Runeknight95

Then hes guna need sum fluid! haha

any brand preference for brake fluid or it doesnt really matter? Manual just says heavy duty dot 4.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

What page is that on, drive chain + brakes is 115-127 for my manual, it mentioned pads mesurements and fluid but not the dics.

Section 12-16 Brakes
Brake disc wear inspection

My PDF copy of the carbed manual says its on 275, 366 in the EFI manual

[quarterliter]

I'm not sure if already stated but my suggestion is: DID X Ring chain, I like my sun star sprockets (made in japan) and vesrah sintered pads

[quarterliter]

Motul DOT 5.1 for brake fluid

[Runeknight95]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

any brand preference for brake fluid or it doesnt really matter? Manual just says heavy duty dot 4.

just 4.1 at least I like the ATE blue becuase you can tell when the yellow **** is flushed out amazon = 10 bucks for 500ml

[skilletmo]

Didnt want to start a new thread, but i just put some new brake pads on, the sintered HH EBC brake pads and they feel kind of stiff, i bedded them in by following the start stop instructions. Its normal to feel that way correct? Like it doesn't have much stopping power in the beginning untill it kind of breaks in... right? Just want to make sure.

Im going to install the ss brake lines soon, the ones from the group buy (apex). and post it on my project thread!

[SafetyPaws]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

Didnt want to start a new thread, but i just put some new brake pads on, the sintered HH EBC brake pads and they feel kind of stiff, i bedded them in by following the start stop instructions. Its normal to feel that way correct? Like it doesn't have much stopping power in the beginning untill it kind of breaks in... right? Just want to make sure.

Im going to install the ss brake lines soon, the ones from the group buy (apex). and post it on my project thread!

I will let you know in a few days how my feel, anyone else experience this?

The speiglar lines come with free brake fluid from STG.

Here is link to the rear rotor that i am replacing with the rear pads. EBC XC-Series Contour . Anyone use this in the past, they said EBC were one of best in world. Hope they are right.

[tfkrocks]

Keep in mind you're going to have to cut off some links from that chain before installation as it is longer than the OEM chain.

[SafetyPaws]

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

Keep in mind you're going to have to cut off some links from that chain before installation as it is longer than the OEM chain.

Krap thought they were the same size 520x120? Hmm how many do you think I would have to remove?

I know that it should have about an inch of pull when tightened according to the manual but didnt think i would have to remove a lot, figured one or two with the master.

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

Krap thought they were the same size 520x120? Hmm how many do you think I would have to remove?

I know that it should have about an inch of pull when tightened according to the manual but didnt think i would have to remove a lot, figured one or two with the master.

OEM is 106 links.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

I will let you know in a few days how my feel, anyone else experience this?

The speiglar lines come with free brake fluid from STG.

Here is link to the rear rotor that i am replacing with the rear pads. EBC XC-Series Contour . Anyone use this in the past, they said EBC were one of best in world. Hope they are right.

I've started bedding one of those rotors in on the front, seems to be decent, but I've only put about 40 miles on it. if the weather is agreeable I'll probably put another few hundred on it before hitting the mountains this weekend.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

Didnt want to start a new thread, but i just put some new brake pads on, the sintered HH EBC brake pads and they feel kind of stiff, i bedded them in by following the start stop instructions. Its normal to feel that way correct? Like it doesn't have much stopping power in the beginning untill it kind of breaks in... right? Just want to make sure.

Im going to install the ss brake lines soon, the ones from the group buy (apex). and post it on my project thread!

Yes, it's not got much surface area in contact until the pads bed in, so you won't have as much stopping power.
Once the grooves on the disc are imprinted onto the pads you'll have full the full friction surface available & it'll stop the bike much quicker.

[SafetyPaws]

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

Keep in mind you're going to have to cut off some links from that chain before installation as it is longer than the OEM chain.

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

OEM is 106 links.

Is it easy to remove the extra links?

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Yes, it's not got much surface area in contact until the pads bed in, so you won't have as much stopping power.
Once the grooves on the disc are imprinted onto the pads you'll have full the full friction surface available & it'll stop the bike much quicker.

Thats why i decided to change the rear rotor. Think that would be waste of pads and not as safe until they bed in - especially since they are the rear brakes.

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

Is it easy to remove the extra links?

If you have a dremel yeah.

[Bob2010]

Edit nvm

[Whiskey]

Only got another 150 or so miles on the bike over the weekend, EBC disc seems to be a good one

[SafetyPaws]

Alright - have another questions, I have all the materials required (well almost need to buy some 271 Red loctite threadlocker for rear rotor but that's a simple trip to the home depot) - is there a video or DIY that shows how to install the new chain instead of just removing it as well as removing the links previously mentioned. Am I really supposed to use a dremel and cut off the links from a new chain?

Would it be best to find a local dealer to remove the links to the proper 106 links?

Edit: had to save up for some stands; now its getting kold but need to do this before the winter and gets really kold!