February 11th, 2014, 03:38 AM | #41 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: harry
Location: Central Florida
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250, 2004 Buell XB12s, Honda 110 Elite Posts: 332
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HA! I gots skull valve stem caps and a chrome chain, that's at least 40 more horsepower!
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"They don't pay me enough to ride this thing!" Kenny Roberts after winning the Indy Mile on the TZ750 powered Grand National bike. |
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February 19th, 2014, 02:54 PM | #42 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Lance
Location: Texas
Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): Cruiser, street, and track Posts: 59
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Quote:
Either way I agree with most of the posts here if he steered you away from syn because it made his clutch slip on his race 250 something is wrong with his clutch. Although I sell Amsoil now I used it before that. I and multiple people in the pits around here have done 6 and 8 hour endurance races with zero problems. One guy even get oil analysis done on them regularly and no issues running the Amsoil multiple race weekends. If you don't want to spend $10/qt on Amsoil just use a quality motorcycle oil that you like. |
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February 19th, 2014, 04:00 PM | #43 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: harry
Location: Central Florida
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250, 2004 Buell XB12s, Honda 110 Elite Posts: 332
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When I had clutch trouble with Castrol Syntec, it wasn't a 250 Ninja.
1327 cc Kawi Z-1 with a 100 hp nitrous shot. (165 hp on motor alone, you get the picture). The clutch was an MTC 3 stage slider. I had been using Mobil 1 in 5w-30 in it. I spun the tire which kicked a shift fork. I pulled the pan off and changed the shift fork (you can't do that with a set of stock cases). When I put it all back together, the only oil I could get was the Castrol without running all over. Any way, the clutch slipped like a madman and fried the pack. Put it back in the trailer and went home. Damn good slippery oil, but not good for a wet clutch. I changed back to Mobil 1 the next week, replaced the clutch pack and went 50 rounds over the next 8 events without a single problem. It was definitely the oil.
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"They don't pay me enough to ride this thing!" Kenny Roberts after winning the Indy Mile on the TZ750 powered Grand National bike. |
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February 20th, 2014, 10:22 AM | #44 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
In that application, with that much power being transmitted through the clutch plates, using an oil with Friction Modifiers will cause slipping. Even if you didn't have that much power, it could still be a problem. As I've said before, DO NOT USE AUTO OILS IN A CYCLE ENGINE! Friction Modifiers may cause clutch slipping, but more importantly the lack of proper levels of additives can easily cause damage to valvetrain components. For what you had there, an Ester-based synthetic racing oil like Motul or Redline would be a much better choice. |
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February 20th, 2014, 11:28 AM | #45 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nate
Location: UK
Join Date: Feb 2013 Motorcycle(s): Frankenstein Posts: 49
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Luckily I can speak from many years experience using car oil, and it's certainly not a one size fits all yes or no answer.
Over here cheapo 20/50 car oil was until recently about 1/4 the price of bike oil so I ran all my bikes on it and changed it regularly, I did this for many many years and hundreds of thousands of miles. Over the years I found that the amount of clutch slip (if any) was really hit and miss, some bikes would slip with certain oils more than others and other bikes wouldn't slip at all regardless of what oil went in. But even when an oil did cause slip it was still completely rideable for me as I am a very sedate rider who changes gear at relatively low RPM 99% of the time. I'm sure that if I was the type of rider who liked fast paced riding and aggressive gear shifts I'm sure it would have been a different story all together. The ONLY time I had clutch slip that it was a problem to ride with was when I used a top brand oil (Magnatec or some such thing) which caused very bad slip. But again with that said I have a friend who uses it in his bike (completely different make and model to mine) and gets no slip at all. Then about a year or two ago the price of all the cheap oils went up so I no longer use it, why bother with any clutch slip at all just to save £20 a year. Being a ratbiker many of the people I ride with run their bikes on a shoestring budget and as such use only car oil in their bikes. Many report no clutch slippage at all or clutch slip only when "giving it a right handful". Neither my friends ancient XJ , his equally decrepit Goldwing or VFR750 have any issues running car oil, all of which have well exceeded the life expectancy of their particular engines and are still going strong. As such my view is that the amount of clutch slip is entirely dependent on the bike/oil combination. And that if the clutch does indeed slip it will usually just reduce the amount of rpm you can change at (how much of a reduction will again be bike/oil dependent), whether or not you can live with the reduction is entirely personal preference. And lastly that car oil certainly doesn't seem to cause excessive wear providing it's changed regularly of course, as most of our bikes would have been dead or at least very knackered a long time ago. |
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February 20th, 2014, 11:32 AM | #46 |
It's a long boring story
Name: Ryan
Location: St. Louis
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250 Posts: 167
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My guess (without any research data) is that 9/10 will total the bike before oil changes become an issue. Just saying
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#41 MCRA alex.s :crashing is a normal part of life... people are just in denial about that. |
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February 20th, 2014, 12:21 PM | #47 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
The REAL issue isn't Friction Modifiers and clutch slippage - Modifiers are only used in oil grades up to 30 so no 40-grade has them anyway. Back-in-the-day auto oils had higher levels of additives (ZDDP) that you really need for a cycle engine - not any more. I used auto oils back then also, but not any more. EDIT: The solution to a less expensive oil that's safe for cycle engines is a 40-grade diesel oil - Rotella, Delvac, etc. It's generally a good quality base and has the higher amounts of ZDDP that are needed to protect the cams and rockers. It's also easy to find and not very expensive - win. Last futzed with by jkv45; February 21st, 2014 at 07:19 AM. |
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February 22nd, 2014, 04:04 AM | #48 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nate
Location: UK
Join Date: Feb 2013 Motorcycle(s): Frankenstein Posts: 49
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Quote:
Regarding Diesel oil, are there not implications resulting from the higher detergent levels? Seem to recall reading it somewhere or other but can't recall where. |
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February 22nd, 2014, 09:52 PM | #49 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
As far as detergent levels in diesel oil, I've heard that mentioned before, but never found any evidence that their detergent package was an issue when used in a cycle engine. I'm very confident that diesel oils are a much better choice than standard auto oils in a cycle engine. |
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March 7th, 2014, 08:25 AM | #50 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nate
Location: UK
Join Date: Feb 2013 Motorcycle(s): Frankenstein Posts: 49
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Quote:
Something that struck me as interesting was that yesterday I found myself in a bike shop and while I was there I checked out some of the oils available and whilst they made no (or very little) mention of what was actually in them to my surprise around half of them featured the words: "safe for use in engines with catalytic converters" Wouldn't that suggest they don't have zddp in them? These were all motorcycle specific oils. |
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March 7th, 2014, 08:35 AM | #51 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
It takes time, and because auto engines typically go significantly more miles before needing major service the ZDDP limitations are based on 100,000+ mi of use. They are also factoring in oil consumption as the engine nears that mark. In more limited use, and minimal consumption, there's no harm to the catalyst from high levels of ZDDP. If you are unsure, most manufacturers will give you the zinc and phosphorus levels in their oil - except Castrol that is. 1200 and over is commonly considered safe for cycle engines, with some cycle oils in the 1500-1700 range. Standard auto oils are held to under 800 ppm. |
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March 7th, 2014, 06:02 PM | #52 | |||
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Quote:
Rotella (15W-40 dino and 5W-40 synthetic) meets the requirements listed in the manual and is cheap (I've gotten T6 for as low as $9/gallon with a sale and rebate), so that's what I use. Some modern "good" oils actually don't even meet the manual's requirements. Quote:
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March 7th, 2014, 06:14 PM | #53 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Ken
Location: Central New Jersey
Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 219
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March 7th, 2014, 07:18 PM | #54 |
Board Member
Name: ...
Location: WI
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.
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Its the [ you ] tag
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March 10th, 2014, 06:31 AM | #55 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Ken
Location: Central New Jersey
Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 219
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
March 10th, 2014, 11:39 AM | #56 | |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Quote:
For example, here's what it looks like when I type "I'm better than [you]!": I'm better than Unregistered! |
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March 10th, 2014, 11:59 AM | #57 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Ken
Location: Central New Jersey
Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 219
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Quote:
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