May 12th, 2014, 10:42 AM | #1 |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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old lemon's second track day extravaganza
Yesterday was my second track day at summit point west virginia at the shenendoah circuit. Long stories short, I was passing hella people in the novice group, dragged my kick stand mount (i think) twice, the second time didnt go so well. and move up to intermediate for one session as you will see why.
Link to original page on YouTube.
Link to original page on YouTube. Last futzed with by Old Lemon; May 12th, 2014 at 01:01 PM. |
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May 12th, 2014, 10:48 AM | #2 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
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if you are dragging hard parts, start moving to the inside of the bike, get your shoulders to the inside of the bike. Inside butt cheek off, while holding on with your outside thigh.
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
May 12th, 2014, 10:51 AM | #3 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: S
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Sorry about the crash. I'm glad it was at the track though, and that you're (mostly) ok.
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May 12th, 2014, 10:54 AM | #4 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Justin
Location: Central NJ
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Sorry to hear about the crash, but glad to hear you're relatively okay. Are all your videos from the camera mounted on the helmet? Hard to see whats going on from that angle in terms of BP, etc.
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May 12th, 2014, 11:04 AM | #5 |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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this is the only angle i have as i only have one camera. I can assure you guys tho, my shoulders are dipped in, my face is at the mirror and like half of my butt is off. i just know something is wrong with my bp cause im pretty sure you should drag knee before hard parts if you are hanging. my videos wont help with bp tho
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May 12th, 2014, 11:14 AM | #6 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Justin
Location: Central NJ
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Quote:
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May 12th, 2014, 11:20 AM | #7 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Bummer yo, but glad you had fun and came back home relatively good. No real worries about anything, now that your 2nd day is done... you got plenty of time to work on the rest of the skills. Rushing need not apply.
Looks like a seriously fun track.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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May 12th, 2014, 11:32 AM | #8 |
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When you go off the track you really should get on the gas.
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May 12th, 2014, 11:51 AM | #9 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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where is your rear shock set? make sure it is set to the highest setting.
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May 12th, 2014, 11:52 AM | #10 |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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there will be pictures uploaded by the photographer probably tomorrow. my suspension is set to 1, i asked some people at my first track day and said if ive never had any problems then change wasnt really necessary (i also weigh as much as a feather). I was going much faster this track day then my first, maybe that is something i do need to change now.
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May 12th, 2014, 11:54 AM | #11 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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if that is you in your avitar, it looks like you can get your shoulders more forward and down to the inside. but that is just my preference, I like to keep my chest in contact with the tank. being 6'1, sometimes my head even hits the wind screen.
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May 12th, 2014, 11:58 AM | #12 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Quote:
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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May 12th, 2014, 11:59 AM | #13 |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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that is me in my avatar from my first track day, my bp has definitely changed since then
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May 12th, 2014, 12:07 PM | #15 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
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Folks around here say if you can only get to one Track the shenendoah circuit is the one to ride
What they said... Fun = good wreck = bad |
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May 12th, 2014, 12:11 PM | #16 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Oh! I forgot to ask, how about the ticking? Did you fix it trackside or still on deck to fix?
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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May 12th, 2014, 12:48 PM | #17 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
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ouch, good to see that you aren't seriously hurt though a dislocated shoulder sucks. Shenandoah is a fantastic circuit that I'm looking forward to riding in july.
As for the body positioning thing, where in the seat do you sit. I feel that if I were sitting forward in my seat my knee wouldn't go out properly vs my preferred location which is farther back where when in the hanging position the knee goes exactly where it should. |
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May 12th, 2014, 01:00 PM | #18 |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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updated op with another video, i didnt fix the tick, i figure now would be a good time to fix it lol. as for where i sit, id say far back with the inside cheek off. the pictures will tell.
o sh*t! random thumbnail gave it that lol. nice |
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May 12th, 2014, 02:25 PM | #19 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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it's easy to tell from the video that you are either reverse seated (doubtful) or more likely very crossed up. look at the perspective of the video camera. i'm assuming its either on top or on the side of your head, and when you scrape, it is viewing the bike from the WRONG SIDE of the bike. that means you are extreeeeeemly crossed up.
try to put your inside ear on the asphalt.
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May 12th, 2014, 03:25 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jeff
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 White Ninja 300, 2010 Red Ninja 250r (Sold) Posts: 335
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Yikes...Glad you're mostly ok. That looks like a fun track, but kind of narrow and lacking run off area, especially where you went off.
The first thing that came to my mind when watching your crash video was the safety briefing at my (only) track day where they stressed the first thing you do if you can move is get out of the impact area. If anybody had target fixated on you the spot you were in at the end of the video didn't look like a good place to be. Also, I hate to say it but I giggled a bit when your bike honked at you as you were both falling in the grass. I'm not much help on the body position issue since I'm going to start working on that on my second track day. You can see my (lack of) proper position in the picture under my name, and the profile pic if you click on my name, which are from my first track day ever. |
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May 12th, 2014, 03:51 PM | #21 | |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
But i think i was only that extremely crossed up in this one instance, i dont think it happens (or if it does, definitely not to that extent) in the session i posted |
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May 12th, 2014, 03:53 PM | #22 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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i know what you mean but it is when you are in trouble that you need good body position the most, not the other way around. easy to get yourself scared into bad body position but it should be the other way around. get scared, go full hardcore BP and drag that shoulder on the ground. maybe you'll make it to the other side
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May 12th, 2014, 04:06 PM | #23 |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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honestly thats what i had going through my mind and what i thought i did.....until i saw the video and was soooooo wrong
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May 12th, 2014, 05:33 PM | #24 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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next time you have a chance, take a step back and go what you feel "slow" but smooth... people say 70%. a lot of people think this is 70% of this completely unrealistic superbadass that everyone deep down thinks they are. and so they wind up riding more like 90%... don't worry about other people, just leave a bike or two passing room on the inside and outside. now while you're mid corner it will feel like you are just sitting there forever.... so while you're sitting there wondering how long it will take to finally reach that apex, you can think about what position your body is in... where is your torso pointed? you want your torso flat with your neck pointing foward. what is more aerodynamic, a long skinny tube thing, or a tall, flat chested board thing? if you keep the center of your chest always touching the gas tank, you know you're in reasonable aero, which is important on a 250. its easy to pop up for braking and then go back down from the back of the seat. if your chest is touching a part of the tank, it's much easier to understand where you are in relation to the bike... what part is it touching? is it touching the center? or is it touching the side? what part of your chest is touching the tank? the top of your chest? or are you sitting to far forward and you're kinda hunched over the chest with your nuts and gut in the tank? if you're too forward, your knees stick out the side and you wind up trying to grip the tank by using the inside of your thigh which winds up just sliding and giving no real support. but if you scoot your ass back farther you can grab the bike in the cup of your knee kinda which means you can just shove your heel onto the foot peg under the lever and it locks in quite nice. what about your hand positioning? your head position? etc etc etc. while you're in a corner, if you're just smoothly going along at a reasonable pace and not trying to go faster than you know you can without pushing anything you should have some left over brain power to be self critical with your riding style. it's easy to miss mistakes that you make when you're doing a hundred other things.
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May 12th, 2014, 10:52 PM | #25 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
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Just from the first 2 minutes of that video, yes i know you are behind a slow rider, you are too upright. we should still be able to see our speedometer in the picture if you had good body positioning.
I dont care if I hurt your feelings or get bad reps form this, but do you even know what the race line is on that track? yes you are going faster then most of those riders, but they are apexing the corners better then you. That is not Intermediate skill, speed maybe, but lines are terrible, it appears you are about 4 feet off the line in most corners. |
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May 12th, 2014, 11:16 PM | #26 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Common now brah... no he don't. One does not simply nail the race line on your 2nd track day. Context... it's important.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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May 13th, 2014, 12:57 AM | #27 |
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Name: Hansveer
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Why would you use your rear brake at all? Stay away from the rear brake at the track, ESPECIALLY for hard braking. Glad it wasn't worse and I'm sure you had fun good luck for your next track day and have a speedy recovery
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May 13th, 2014, 07:05 AM | #28 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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I think he meant rear brake in the grass, front brake on the grass is no fun lol
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May 13th, 2014, 07:09 AM | #29 |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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@cbinker it takes much more than anyone can throw at me on the internet to hurt my feelings lol. I know my lines definitely are not the best.
And yea i was talking about the rear brake for the grass only And apparently the track day photographers took like 4000 pictures so its gonna be like another day or so for them to upload them |
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May 13th, 2014, 07:11 AM | #30 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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Just some comments as well....
1. Awesome for you to get to the track and have fun and improve yourself 2. If you were leaned over enough to drag the hard parts (and from the video its is kinda hard to say but doubtful), your leaning the bike way more than you should have to. I had a real problem with his (still work on it alot). I would crank the bike over like crazy because I couldn't convince my head it was ok to separate myself from the bike and get down to the inside to give back some lean angle. 3. Do you have stock rearsets? They should touch down well before the kickstand mount? Pics from photog should definitely help understand what was going on better. Either way heal up and keep improving!!!!!
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Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
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May 13th, 2014, 07:19 AM | #31 |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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i have woodcraft rear sets, but yes i did drag the kickstand mount. I know these arent the best pictures but it definitely happened
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May 13th, 2014, 07:33 AM | #32 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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NO! Rear brake is very useful, even in hard braking and chassis stabilization in corners.
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May 13th, 2014, 07:35 AM | #33 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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I have some concerns about the organization, if he is being allowed in the intermediate group that far off line.
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May 13th, 2014, 07:49 AM | #34 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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vid must have been misleading from the camera position, definitely gotta give back some lean angle with BP then.
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Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
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May 13th, 2014, 07:55 AM | #35 | |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
The control rider i had ride with me for the bump up asked me why i didnt try to get a bump up sooner in the day, it was because i was trying to practice my lines, but i got more concerned with speed than i did lines. Ill be back there within the next couple months so i can keep working on these things for sure |
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May 13th, 2014, 08:51 AM | #36 |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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May 13th, 2014, 09:31 AM | #37 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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it appears that you have your head lower in that corner then all the others. eventually, you will be going faster, and looking further down the track and chances are you will be seeing the mirror brackets instead of the speedo.
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May 13th, 2014, 09:49 AM | #38 |
Lays er down
Name: Michael
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Lime green Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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i see
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May 13th, 2014, 10:56 AM | #39 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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one thing i keep notice you doing is going back to center on the bike. don't bother. set up for the next turn asap. let the bike come up in the turn before you do... do not pull your body up, let the bike bring you up until you are up and down then you can move your body if you want. but if you have another turn coming up and don't need to move your body, don't bother moving it twice when you can get away with none.
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May 15th, 2014, 08:21 PM | #40 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Dre
Location: DMV
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I rode up there that day to see a couple of friends. I wish I knew you were there. It would have motivated me to hit the track. Next time you go, give me a shout.
Funny thing I have you subbed on youtube. I just saw your crash vid and immediately came to the forum. I figured there was a post about it. :-) That particular turn where you crashed has a really bumpy area, which you were right in the middle of. On the 250, you can go full throttle and you will be fine. Do you still have stock pegs? My guess is that's what you were dragging. I doubt it was the kickstand at that angle and that speed. If you were closer to the curb, maybe. I absolutely love this track. I think it was made for a 250, just a 250 with rear sets and the stand mount cut off. Coming over the hill before the range esses is where I drag the stand. Also the bottom of the bowl. Rear sets help a whole lot there. You definitely belong in intermediate with Roger Lyle. You looked like you were having a lot of fun out there, and looked really good. |
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