08 Ninja won't turn over

[Meximario]

Hello all,

I am finally here in seek of some assistance. I have a 2008 Ninja 250R that will not for the love of god, crank. I have gotten it to crank and turn on before several times.

The issue:

-The ignition has to be turned on.
-The kill switch on the right grip is set to the correct position.
-The bike is in neutral but the clutch lever has to be squeezed just in case!
-Kick stand is up and off the floor.
-I finally press the stater button and I get this ever so faintly but light buzzing noise AND whenever I continue simultaneously pressing the starter button my rear license plate lights turn off when pressed.
-Suddenly, the noise goes away, the plate lights no longer die and the bike is silent when I then try pressing the starter button.

I have replaced the starter motor, the solenoid and have cleaned the kick stand fail-safe sensor. I have however, found that when I replace the two diodes underneath my seat above the battery with brand new ones, the bike suddenly turns on again! BUT 2 or 5 more sessions of turning the bike on later and everything happens all over again! This is my 4th time switching the diodes out. I'm lost here and quite frankly, frustrated .

Do I have some sort of short somewhere? I've checked all the connections from the battery to the solenoid to the starter motor and everything is connected just fine. I have also gone ahead and taken apart the housing for the starter button to ensure that the contacts in there weren't bad. I've tried eliminating as much as possible for you guys.

Also, the bike does run when I push start it. In fact, let me double check that right now since the diodes just died on me 10min ago...I've ran up and the down the street 10 times like a thief and couldn't get it to push start with choke on and all. I feel helpless here and I need some help.

[jkv45]

Have you confirmed the battery isn't the problem?

[Meximario]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Have you confirmed the battery isn't the problem?

Would the battery be the reason the diodes keep frying though? Let me pull out the multi meter and check the voltage and of the battery isn't the problem, where should I go from there?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Meximario

Would the battery be the reason the diodes keep frying though? Let me pull out the multi meter and check the voltage and of the battery isn't the problem, where should I go from there?

Welcome to Ninjette.org, John !!!

Please read this:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...attery_is_dead

What indicates that the diodes have gone bad?

[Meximario]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Welcome to Ninjette.org, John !!!

Please read this:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...attery_is_dead

What indicates that the diodes have gone bad?

Thank you for the warm welcome! I've heard a lot about thus forum through a friend and have decided to check it out for myself.

I've attached a picture of my battery readings that I snapped right now. The voltage seems fine to me when I refer for the link you've provided but my bike doesn't crank at all so I can't test the voltage on it cranking.

What helps me indicate the diodes have gone bad is when I change them out, the problem suddenly disappeares but later reappears again and I would have to change them out, again, in order for the issue to be go away. But like I've said, every time I change the diodes out and it begins working again sooner or later the issue reoccurs which leads me to believe that the diodes is what's not allowing the bike to turn on but I don't believe it is the cause, I think their is something is causing them to short or go bad but not sure exactly what. I'm not sure why was it when I changed them out last night and pressed the starter button, my rear license plate lights would turn off. It doesn't do that anymore however... Nothing happens at all and I have no more diodes to swap out with. I can post a video if that helps.

http://imgur.com/R6BgPDO
http://imgur.com/PtgjIZg

[Meximario]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Welcome to Ninjette.org, John !!!

Please read this:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...attery_is_dead

What indicates that the diodes have gone bad?

I went ahead and tendered the battery for about 15minutes. My readings are now 12.51v and when the key is turned on the ignition, it reads 12.35v. I also tried starting it again and the starter did a half crank before taking a dump again. It's doesn't make any noise at all.

[verboten1]

charge your battery. overnight

15 minutes on a half amp charger isn't going to do much.

a motorcycle charging system doesn't like to charge a dead battery. it gets hot, it dies.

[Meximario]

Originally Posted by verboten1

charge your battery. overnight

15 minutes on a half amp charger isn't going to do much.

a motorcycle charging system doesn't like to charge a dead battery. it gets hot, it dies.

I should have probably mentioned that I have already once left the bike charging over night in the past in previous attempts to solve the issue. I'm using this to charge my bike.

http://imgur.com/op9tlOv

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Meximario

I went ahead and tendered the battery for about 15minutes. My readings are now 12.51v and when the key is turned on the ignition, it reads 12.35v. I also tried starting it again and the starter did a half crank before taking a dump again. It's doesn't make any noise at all.

12.51V is 90% charged, 12.35 is about 75%. That's a fair amount of drop just from turning the ignition on.

You can still read the voltage if it doesn't start. Just watch it as you hit the button. I'm thinking it's going to drop way down into the 10V range or less under load - which would mean it has an internal problem.

Charge it overnight and get it to 12.7V after sitting. It will read a bit higher when it first comes off the charger, but will eventually sit around 12.6V to 12.7V if it's fully charged. Then check it when you crank it.

Based on what you've said, I think there's a good chance the battery could be bad.

[verboten1]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Based on what you've said, I think there's a good chance the battery could be bad.

this is my thought as well.

[Meximario]

Originally Posted by verboten1

this is my thought as well.

Okay, I'm going to leave it charging for the next 8 hours.
Which setting should I leave the charger at?

http://imgur.com/D35pJhh

[Meximario]

Originally Posted by jkv45

12.51V is 90% charged, 12.35 is about 75%. That's a fair amount of drop just from turning the ignition on.

You can still read the voltage if it doesn't start. Just watch it as you hit the button. I'm thinking it's going to drop way down into the 10V range or less under load - which would mean it has an internal problem.

Charge it overnight and get it to 12.7V after sitting. It will read a bit higher when it first comes off the charger, but will eventually sit around 12.6V to 12.7V if it's fully charged. Then check it when you crank it.

Based on what you've said, I think there's a good chance the battery could be bad.

The issue with this is, even when I press the starter button and watch the multimeter for any changes in voltage there is none. The voltage doesn't drop when I hit the button. My bike won't even crank or make any sort of noise. I attached the battery charger directly to the bike's starter and set it at 12V 50amps and cranked it, the bike cranked and started right up just fine.

Say that I do charge the battery overnight and the readings are at 100% sitting and with the ignition turned on and the bike still decides not to crank then, what would be the next measure of action?

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Meximario

The issue with this is, even when I press the starter button and watch the multimeter for any changes in voltage there is none. The voltage doesn't drop when I hit the button. My bike won't even crank or make any sort of noise. I attached the battery charger directly to the bike's starter and set it at 12V 50amps and cranked it, the bike cranked and started right up just fine.

Say that I do charge the battery overnight and the readings are at 100% sitting and with the ignition turned on and the bike still decides not to crank then, what would be the next measure of action?

In that case I would follow the battery cables and check connections and voltage as you go. The starter button itself and relay would also be something to check.

[csmith12]

Divide and conquer!

Jump the solenoid with a screwdriver or apply 12v to the starter, if it starts and runs... From there you can start the diag of ignition parts.

[Meximario]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Divide and conquer!

Jump the solenoid with a screwdriver or apply 12v to the starter, if it starts and runs... From there you can start the diag of ignition parts.

You are my new hero. Okay, so I've jumped the solenoid with a screwdriver and the bike cranks, starts, and runs just fine. I've also applied 12V to the starter and it too starts runs fine. Where should I go from here? I've just finished taking apart the start button housing and all the contacts read fine and are good.

[csmith12]

I aint got much time, but your next step would be to keep dividing, start to unplug things that are not required to make the bike run. You gotta have some sort of short or arcing connection somewhere related to the ignition or starting.

Alot of the time, it's a botched mod such as LED lights and what not or a burned wire.

[csmith12]

Oh! and make sure you main fuse is in good condition. Unless you hook up the battery backward, the main fuse should blow before blowing the diodes.

[Meximario]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Oh! and make sure you main fuse is in good condition. Unless you hook up the battery backward, the main fuse should blow before blowing the diodes.

Thanks for the help man. The bike is completely moded. Aftermarket headlight, LED turn signals, LED license plate light, horn, speedo, and tac-o. I'm assuming the wiring job to these is what's causing the issue somewhere.

Noob question, is the main fuse the fuse on the solenoid?

Also, is this brown cable supposed to be like this?http://imgur.com/gOS6wtm

[csmith12]

Judging from that pic, I would assume it's not supposed to be like that but there seems to be a fair amount of "customization" going on.

If I were in your shoes, I would disconnect everything/pull the fuses of everything that is not required for the bike to run. Add them back one at a time and you should find your problem child.

[Meximario]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Judging from that pic, I would assume it's not supposed to be like that but there seems to be a fair amount of "customization" going on.

If I were in your shoes, I would disconnect everything/pull the fuses of everything that is not required for the bike to run. Add them back one at a time and you should find your problem child.

The thing is, I know nothing when it comes to wiring. I didn't wire or mod this bike. The only thing I do know is that those diodes underneath the seat above the battery is what's not allowing the bike to turn on. I've replaced them 4 times now and they keep going bad. I don't know how to read schematics and wouldn't know where to begin looking for the cause of all this. I try following the cables but the all lead to a harness and I don't know what to do from there. I do appreciate your help though.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Meximario

The thing is, I know nothing when it comes to wiring. I didn't wire or mod this bike. The only thing I do know is that those diodes underneath the seat above the battery is what's not allowing the bike to turn on. I've replaced them 4 times now and they keep going bad. I don't know how to read schematics and wouldn't know where to begin looking for the cause of all this. I try following the cables but the all lead to a harness and I don't know what to do from there. I do appreciate your help though.

This is a simplified schematic of the part of the jungle of wires that participate in the start up of the engine:



This is for Ninja 250's previous to 2008 and the colors may not match yours, but the principle is the same.

A relay is an electro-switch, something to which you apply a little amount of Amps (flow of electrons per second) and the internal switch closes, turning on the powerful circuit that feeds the starter with a lot of Amps.

There is a relay for the head-lights that works on the same principle.

You acted as that relay when you applied the screwdriver to those points, you just turned the starter circuit (bold line in the schematic) on.

Following that line of thoughts, there is something in that relay circuit that prevents turning the big wires on.

The positive in the battery is on the right side and the little triangles indicate connections to the negative pole of the battery via the chassis of the bike.

Diodes are passive devices that allow flow of electricity in one direction only.

[Meximario]

Originally Posted by Motofool

This is a simplified schematic of the part of the jungle of wires that participate in the start up of the engine:



This is for Ninja 250's previous to 2008 and the colors may not match yours, but the principle is the same.

A relay is an electro-switch, something to which you apply a little amount of Amps (flow of electrons per second) and the internal switch closes, turning on the powerful circuit that feeds the starter with a lot of Amps.

There is a relay for the head-lights that works on the same principle.

You acted as that relay when you applied the screwdriver to those points, you just turned the starter circuit (bold line in the schematic) on.

Following that line of thoughts, there is something in that relay circuit that prevents turning the big wires on.

The positive in the battery is on the right side and the little triangles indicate connections to the negative pole of the battery via the chassis of the bike.

Diodes are passive devices that allow flow of electricity in one direction only.

Thank you so much for this! I actually took the time to look through the forums and found some pretty well written DIYs guides/diags.

I ended up stripping the bike apart and found horrendous amounts of terrible wiring mods/taps that the previous owner did. Taps into unnecessary cables and what not. I ended in redoing the wiring harness which took me about 5 hours. I soldered the previous wiring mods and shrink wrapped them tight and snug as to protect it from the elements. I finished by checking all the connections were good and they were! I feel proud of myself.

I just have to put everything back together tomorrow and order those new diodes again. I'm going to leave the battery charging over night as well just to ensure my battery is charged and not another culprit.

Thank you all for your help and hopefully the previous wiring job was the cause of all this. I'll keep you all posted on the progress once I finish up tomorrow.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Meximario

Thank you so much for this! .................I finished by checking all the connections were good and they were! I feel proud of myself.........

You are welcome

[CZroe]

I have a feeling that one of the wiring faults was bypassing the ignition fuse and feeding too much current through the diode. One of those many taps may have been creating additional draw past the diode as well.