Low speed u-turns in training course

[Woolley7325]

Hi guys I. Am finally taking lessons to get my 250 licence - took my first yesterday. Felt awesome riding on the road, I bloody loved it!

I was taught to practise u-turns in first gear at walking pace to the right hand side. Purpose was to use a combination of rear brake and clutch. Just going round and round etc. I sucked at it, was wobbling everywhere and had no consistency of speed. My instructor taught me to ride the rear brake and feather the clutch to maintain a steady low walking speed. I did get a bit better but man it felt unnatural riding around with the brake on! It did work though. Any thoughts on this or improving my technique at walking pace right hand turns?

[Soujyu]

What your instructor told you is one of the ways to do it.

Here, we have a u-turn that we have to do within a box. The way I deal with it on a 250 is to do it in second gear. It requires a lot less brake/clutch work. However, that option is taken away once you go to a 600cc/1000cc sportbike, so it's probably better to learn how to do it in first gear with the rear brake/clutch.

You just need to practice it a bit more. Having good low-speed control is critical in crowded parking lots when you get on the street.

[Woolley7325]

Cheers for the advice. Unfortunately I can only ride when I am with my instructor - once a week for an hour and a half... It's bugger all riding practise and I feel like I will have to relearn the skills each week. Not to mention how expensive it is. A learner driver is alowed out with a mate but the only guy I know who rides lost his license so doesn't work for me!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Woolley7325

......Any thoughts on this or improving my technique at walking pace right hand turns?

You could also do it without using any clutch, just rear brake and steady throttle, always in first gear.

The left hand fingers should remain on the clutch lever for disconnecting the wheel from the engine at any oops moment.

For steady throttle, you can keep two fingers on the front brake lever.

Then, your radius of turn is only controlled by the rear brake: more rear brake tightens the turn and leans the bike more, less rear brake widens the turn and stands the bike up.

The rest is just balance; which you can very well practice with a bicycle during the week.

Please, read this:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...456#post639456

[Woolley7325]

Thanks moto, unfortunately on test day the instructors expect this manoeuvre to be done by riding the clutch, no acceleration and with rear brake. My main concern is not that I will master it, because I know I will. But more that with only one hour and a half a week it could take a while! Auto fail if u put feet down or go to quick during this manoeuvre.

[dcj13]

I highly respect Hernan's opinions, but I am a fan of brake, throttle, and clutch. Like my next-door-neighbor retired motorcycle cop suggested when I was learning to ride. Works for me.

[jschorr]

well....the easiest way to do it is DON'T FREAK OUT!!!

it sounds like you have the one machine taken care of (the bike) so maybe you should try working on the other.

some deep breathing helps improve your balance and mind set. it is the idea of what your doing that is hard not the actions.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Woolley7325

Thanks moto, unfortunately on test day the instructors expect this manoeuvre to be done by riding the clutch, no acceleration and with rear brake. My main concern is not that I will master it, because I know I will. But more that with only one hour and a half a week it could take a while! Auto fail if u put feet down or go to quick during this manoeuvre.

You are welcome, Rohan

Yes, do what your instructor is asking you to do.
I just mentioned another way to do it, having less controls to worry about, but mastering the finesse of clutch application is best practiced on a straight line, in my opinion.

While turning slowly, any error on excessive clutch-in will quickly drop the bike onto more lean.
If you are fast, you could save it with your leg and foot; but I see no need for risking a fall during your very first practice sessions.

Try looking far forward rather than down and close; feel the balance with your body and relax your arms; hence the advised practice with a bicycle between lessons.
Just be careful, relaxed and centered while attending those lessons.

Watch these:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Woolley7325]

Had my 2nd lesson this morning. Was windy and a bit rainy but still loved the experience.

I had definitely improved with the low speed u turns, just rode the clutch and back break with a little accelerator - nice! It felt much less jerky than last time and much smoother. Also able to go tighter and tighter as well.

Practised emergency stops today, was a bit heavy on the back brake, sometimes pulled clutch in too late and stalled - a bit of a shambles really. I know that in my head I'm seeing it as a panic brake rather than a controlled stop. I always come to the stop well within my allowed space. I believe I need to use the space provided to me, be not quite so heavy on the brakes to control the stop more and not forget the clutch!

Any other tips or corrections you guys would recommend?

[Woolley7325]

Third lesson. Kinda got to finish what I've started now...

Felt comfortable on the bike again. In reflection, probably too comfortable. Entered roundabouts and intersections too quickly, not giving myself enough time to react had their been an issue with someone breaking a road rule etc.

Emergency stops were better, pretty much relied solely on the front brake and didn't stall this time. Trouble I'm having is I begin the squeeze to slow down, but then for some reason I release the brake and then squeeze again. I need to make it more fluent and consistent and squeeze until I come to a stop without releasing the brake.

My low speed skills were a bit shoddy again, was not taking advantage of the friction zone on the clutch. Practise, practise, practise is what I need. Just sucks I can't practise until lesson time!!!

I asked for feedback at the end of the lesson and got some good stuff. I was not really on my game today and was rushing around like a bull at a gate. Kind of reflects my personality but I know there is no room for 'bull at a gate' stuff when learning to ride - especially when trying to impress a licensing instructor! To be honest I think I was over confident, I need to pull the reigns in a bit. Trouble is I replay every move on the bike in my head all week so when it gets to lesson day I feel I've done it a hundred times! Nothing like the real thing though.

Having said all that I'm still LOVING riding!!! Very nervous about my practical assessment. Not till end of June though so plenty of time to build the confidence. Sorry the thread title no longer matches my ramblings. Enjoy your day!

[Desmoluci]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Woolley7325

..........Felt comfortable on the bike again. In reflection, probably too comfortable. Entered roundabouts and intersections too quickly, not giving myself enough time to react had their been an issue with someone breaking a road rule etc........

It is important that you internally solve what makes you enter "roundabouts and intersections too quickly, not giving myself enough time to react".

Little time is opposite to what you need to educate your reflexes and reactions: it just takes time and slowness is your friend, ..... for now.
That need for rushing is just mental: un-focus on speed and focus on balance and ultra-fine tact with throttle, clutch and both brakes.

Nothing wrong with dragging your brakes and then applying minute changes in pressure and then learning how the bike reacts.

A good rider has developed high finesse regarding feeling and balancing; things that you cannot develop by horsing the poor machine around.

Just slow down and feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel what the bike is trying to tell you in her very peculiar language.

[misfitsailor]

The Ride Like a Pro videos by Jerry "Motorman" Padilla can really help the way a rider handles low speed maneuvering. The techniques work just as well on my Ninjette as they do on my Harley.

Jerry Pidilla's videos are to slow speed riding what Keith Code's books and videos are to high speed riding!

[Woolley7325]

Cheers for the feedback guys, I appreciate your experience.

I KNOW in my head I have to slow it down and take my time and am determined to do just that next lesson. I think I am unlearning old/bad habits from riding farm bikes as a kid - the road is a whole new playground.

I'm also a bit of a people pleaser in my personality and have in the back of my mind that I must 'be quicker' so as not to upset other road users. But then I am a learner, so need to tell myself that their perceived impatience is not my issue to deal with.

[Chicagobob]

With a light bike like the 250, it can help if you shift your weight to the outside peg, and remember to crank your head right around and look through the turn.

[kdogg2077]

I had to do this for my test in PA. What I did was put the bike in 2nd gear to make things more smooth and then focused on looking through the turn. Really got my head around.

I was able to stay within the box but I had to put my foot down once. If you could do it in first that would be more impressive.

And it's funny but now that I'm riding I have to do u-turns more often than I figured I would.

[Woolley7325]

4th lesson...

Awesome time! Felt by far the most comfortable and relaxed I have felt so far on the bike. I had my mindset right this time - I took my time, didn't stress about trying to go to quick and it all came together. My instructor was pleased and recommended I didn't need another lesson before my test on 26th June. I am keen for a few more lessons before then though - firstly it's tonnes of fun and secondly I want as much experience and practise as possible before the test so it's worth the cash to me.

I am grateful for the road craft safety I am learning with an instructor, I don't know how people stay safe without proper training. I was annoyed initially at the stuffing around I seemed to have to do here in Australia to get my lisence. Especially comparing to other requirements in other countries. But overall I think it's a good thing in regards to safety, even if it's a pain in the butt cos all I wana do is riiiiiiiiiiiiiide baby ride!!!

[csmith12]

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Woolley7325

4th lesson...

Awesome time! Felt by far the most comfortable and relaxed I have felt so far on the bike.
But overall I think it's a good thing in regards to safety, even if it's a pain in the butt cos all I wana do is riiiiiiiiiiiiiide baby ride!!!

Right on! Ride on!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Woolley7325

4th lesson...

Awesome time! Felt by far the most comfortable and relaxed I have felt so far on the bike. I had my mindset right this time - I took my time, didn't stress about trying to go too quick and it all came together..........

It seems that you finally put the puzzle together !!!

Don't think much but carefully feel what is happening between your body and the pavement.

Practice more and ride less; practice educates and builds up confidence, riding before proper education and training induces over-confidence: your worse enemy.

[Woolley7325]

Originally Posted by Motofool

It seems that you finally put the puzzle together!

Practice more and ride less; practice educates and builds up confidence, riding before proper education and training induces over-confidence: your worse enemy.

Motofool, you hit it in in one! I was 'riding' the bike (obviously, but you get what I mean) and not practising. Over confidence is my worst enemy and I'm glad to learn the lesson this early in my riding career and not later at more dangerous speeds or stickier situations.

Like any puzzle, putting it together feels good!!!!

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Woolley7325

Motofool, you hit it in in one! I was 'riding' the bike (obviously, but you get what I mean) and not practising. Over confidence is my worst enemy and I'm glad to learn the lesson this early in my riding career and not later at more dangerous speeds or stickier situations.

Like any puzzle, putting it together feels good!!!!

@Motofool always offers exemplary advice!
Over-confidence is why many riders keep the rubber side down until they've been riding a while. Ego gets to some folks at times and tends to cause over-confident riders to let their guards down. Glad you figured out the value of staying humble early!
Sincerely,
Permanoob

[Motofool]

Any updates, Rohan?

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Woolley7325]

Hey Moto I didn't get a lesson this weekend as much as I would have liked one, so haven't been out on the bike since my last update. Been playing it all through in my head though and 'practising' what I have learnt that way - I want to be fully prepared for my test next Thursday.

I honestly don't think my wife is going to see much of me once I'm licensed - I can't see myself getting bored with riding at all. Reckon I'll be out every night after work practising until it feels second nature like the cage is.

Cheers for the vids, they help reinforce what I've been taught which is encouraging.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Woolley7325

Hey Moto I didn't get a lesson this weekend as much as I would have liked one...........Cheers for the vids, they help reinforce what I've been taught which is encouraging.

[Woolley7325]

Took my fifth lesson today, once again I absolutely loved riding and learning how to improve.
Practised low speed u-turns, emergency stops and hill parks/takeoffs as well as street riding, lane changing etc etc. It is starting to feel second nature which is awesome - I'm surprised I've learnt this quickly, especially as the lessons I've had are the only riding practise I'm getting.
Things to work on were: during a few intersection turns I took the bike a bit wide - need to slow it down a tad and look through the turns. I forgot to check over my right shoulder when turning right (we drive on left side of rode over here) in case some lunatic tries to overtake and I pull out in front of him. I also pulled up at a give way with my wheel a tad over the line - the practical assessor will frown on his, also means I wasn't entering the give way slow enough to stop before the line.
My other 'issue' was amber lights. I had one where I emergency braked thinking I was doing a good thing but was told if a truck was behind me I would be cleaned up, which I would be so it makes sense. With traffic lights I need to get to the point where I commit to going and just GO! Only stop if it's safe and no traffic behind me.
I reread the reviews of my first lessons and it's fair to say I've improved heaps lol. Test on Thursday, so wish me luck and I'll let you know how I go. It's at 7am in the morning, then I've got work, so it's going to be a good day or a bad work day!!! Hopefully I'll get home Thursday and FINALLY take my GPX250 out for my first ride on it! Can't wait!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Woolley7325

...........
Practised low speed u-turns, emergency stops and hill parks/takeoffs as well as street riding, lane changing etc etc. It is starting to feel second nature which is awesome.........
Things to work on were: during a few intersection turns I took the bike a bit wide - need to slow it down a tad and look through the turns. I forgot to check over my right shoulder..........My other 'issue' was amber lights. I had one where I emergency braked thinking I was doing a good thing but was told if a truck was behind me I would be cleaned up, which I would be so it makes sense..........

Those three are very important !!!

You run wide because your brain is scared of leaning over a little more.
It is just a natural resistance that is hard to break, as we are vertically balanced beings.
However, all you need to do is slowdown to a comfort entry speed, yes; but when you go in too fast remember to just press a little harder on the inside handlebar and to look far deep into the turn: the bike will make it and you will save a lot of money and pain.

Checking over your shoulder before moving over your lane is a must-to-develop habit, together with cancelling your directional light after you have completed your move over or corner turn.

Plan your crossing of each traffic light with enough time.
Check your mirrors, cover your controls and start dragging your brakes a little.
There is no hard rule about running yellow lights or not; knowing what is rolling behind you and what is about to cross your path with enough time is the best way of avoiding a last second blind decision.

[Woolley7325]

Cheers Moto! I can't wait to have the freedom (once licensed) of riding my own bike and learning all of its capabilities. Not to mention my own capabilities!!!

[ally99]

Right on! Ride on!

[Woolley7325]

Hey guys passed my test this morning, was not my finest hour but I still passed! Think nerves got the better of me but the assessor thought I rode well so he passed me! I'm now fully qualified to ride legally on the road - wahooooooo!

FINALLY took my baby out for a ride this arvo, way more 'go' than the Honda cbf250 I was learning on. I absolutely love it!!!!!

Thankyou so much for the valuable info you guys have provided me, this community here has been so helpful with all my newb queries.

Now it's time to begin phase two of my riding journey!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Woolley7325

Hey guys passed my test this morning..............

Congratulations !!!

[ally99]

Awesome! Gear up. ride safe, and practice techniques often!

[Woolley7325]

Awesome!

My first 'nod' from another biker yesterday and a little kid staring at me lustfully and offering a big wave! He was stoked when I waved back!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Woolley7325

Awesome!

My first 'nod' from another biker yesterday and a little kid staring at me lustfully and offering a big wave! He was stoked when I waved back!

Good situational awareness.

See and hear everything around you, feel the balance and stay alert !!!

[Woolley7325]

[InvisiBill]

It's a bit late now, but feathering the clutch and applying the rear brake during low speed maneuvers can help by letting you rev the engine a little higher, which acts as a (small) gyroscope and actually helps keep the bike up (a little).

[fred smoot]

Look way over your shoulder in the direction you want to go, light pressure on the rear brake, weight the outside peg. Pretty soon you will be doing full lock u-turns anywhere you want.